dwight92070
Well-known member
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Eternal Security
- Thread starter Ahar
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Behold
Well-known member
Over the years, ive taught God's Grace as the Cross of Christ on every "christian" forum, that has existed, since '2004.
Many are now no longer online, and in the last few years, the Disciples of John "The Devil" Calvin, have been planting their forums of deception, abundantly.
And all these years that ive been Teaching Paul's doctrine, ive always been saddened to know that the one thing that should never happen to a New Christian, and God prevent it, is that they come to a Christian" forum, actually believing that they can be theologically helped and spiritually grown, when in fact they will be utterly faith destroyed by the heretics and the fake christians who live on (infect) them.
Its remarkable that you can't find one "christian" forum, on this earth, that is not going to destroy the faith of a baby christian.
Imagine if there was one, just ONE, "christian" forum, online... that only allows people to post on it, who understand the Cross of Christ, as the Grace of God, as Salvation.
Not water baptism
not keeping commandments
not law keeping
'not enduring to the end
not self effort
NO LEGALISM ALLOWED TO TEACH OR PREACH !!
JUST "THE CROSS OF CHRIST is ALL THAT GOD PROVIDED TO GET YOU INTO HEAVEN", is allowed as the GOSPEL.. and SALVATiON Theology.
There is not ONE, online. Not one., as if there was, then it would be because the MODs would not stand for the theological legalistic CRAP that parks and preaches on every forum, obsessively, 24/7.
Its terrible, this ongoing situation, but that is the fact.
The Devil is LAUGHING about this.
And that is also a fact.
Many are now no longer online, and in the last few years, the Disciples of John "The Devil" Calvin, have been planting their forums of deception, abundantly.
And all these years that ive been Teaching Paul's doctrine, ive always been saddened to know that the one thing that should never happen to a New Christian, and God prevent it, is that they come to a Christian" forum, actually believing that they can be theologically helped and spiritually grown, when in fact they will be utterly faith destroyed by the heretics and the fake christians who live on (infect) them.
Its remarkable that you can't find one "christian" forum, on this earth, that is not going to destroy the faith of a baby christian.
Imagine if there was one, just ONE, "christian" forum, online... that only allows people to post on it, who understand the Cross of Christ, as the Grace of God, as Salvation.
Not water baptism
not keeping commandments
not law keeping
'not enduring to the end
not self effort
NO LEGALISM ALLOWED TO TEACH OR PREACH !!
JUST "THE CROSS OF CHRIST is ALL THAT GOD PROVIDED TO GET YOU INTO HEAVEN", is allowed as the GOSPEL.. and SALVATiON Theology.
There is not ONE, online. Not one., as if there was, then it would be because the MODs would not stand for the theological legalistic CRAP that parks and preaches on every forum, obsessively, 24/7.
Its terrible, this ongoing situation, but that is the fact.
The Devil is LAUGHING about this.
And that is also a fact.
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Alive
Member
Exactly he preserves. He doesn't lose anything that the father has given Him. He's a good shepherd he will leave the 99 to bring home that one Lost Lamb. That's my Jesus!
mailmandan
Well-known member
Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Obadiah
Well-known member
This is a great way to start the day. I'm being very encouraged by several different posters.Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
101G
Well-known member
John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
John 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
once in God's hand no one can remove you. and the Lord Jesus, God, don't LIE.
101G.
Obadiah
Well-known member
Yeah buddy, we are safe and The Loving Arms of Jesus
Aeliana
Well-known member
He may be laughing now but the joke's on him.
Behold
Well-known member
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Your Psalm is very interesting, because when you overlay it on the NT, then we see how "prophetic" is this verse.
For example...
NT "Saints" are all the born again... and noone was born again in the OT< as there was NO CROSS given in the OT, whereby ALL sin, could be forgiven and God's Righteousness, that is "the Gift of Righteousness" that is "The Gift of Salvation", could be "imputed" to "all who believe in Jesus", and are born again.
Also.
Your Psalm, talks about the "wicked being cut off".
And who does God define as WICKED, in the "time of the Gentiles' when all of us are "all have sinned", and now we are "made righteous", if our "faith is counted as (Christ's) Righteousness....."" ?
So, who ARE those "wicked", walking around today?
They are these...
John 3:36.
And who are they, as Defined by Jesus?
They are these..." YOU are of YOUR FATHER.. .THE DEVIL,, and the lusts of YOUR FATHER, you shall do".
And who is that?
its everyone, until they are born again by OUR HEAVENLY Father.
dwight92070
Well-known member
The question is not whether God will lose anything, it's whether we walk away from Him as the scripture says happens many times.
dwight92070
Well-known member
There's no question about Him forsaking His saints, the question is will they forsake Him, which the Bible says happens a lot.Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Ozias
Member
I don't think it happens at all. If one of his sheep goes astray he'll leave the 99 to go and get that one Lost lamb.
Take a look at adoption In the days of Jesus if you adopted someone it was against the law to un adopt them or to disinherit them. Since we are adopted into God's family that makes the concept of adoption is a strong argument for eternal security. To lose one’s salvation, one would have to be unadopted!
Could you ever really put your total trust in a heavenly Father who may unadopt you went astray?
Let me put it another way. Can we pledge unconditional loyalty to a God who promises only conditional loyalty in return? Isn’t it unrealistic to think that we could ever grow comfortable thinking of God as our Dad when we know that if we drift away or fall into sin, the relationship will be severed?
Persons holding to a view that allows for one to be unadopted must confront another major theological hurdle. Why would God choose before the foundation of the world to adopt someone He knew He would eventually have to unadopt? To believe we can be unadopted is to believe that man is able to thwart the predestined will of God! Or it is to believe that something in the nature of God forces Him to unadopt certain types of children.
I have met and worked with teenagers and young adults who, because of unfortunate circumstances, were passed around from foster home to foster home. The emotional and mental damage is devastating. Self–esteem is almost nonexistent. Their environment has bred into them a deep sense of insecurity. The only thing I have seen really work for kids with this background is overpowering love, the kind that takes them from wherever they are and sticks with them through all the necessary stages of recovery.
Excuse me if I sound overdramatic, but people who believe they can lose their positions as children of God are set up for a serious case of spiritual insecurity. How deep can my relationship with God really go when He cannot or will not pledge to me His unconditional love and acceptance?
Ozias
Member
Amen to that
Redeemed
Active member
He doesn't let that happen. Think about what Paul saying in Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Anyone that is saved belongs to Jesus they were bottom paid for with his blood. It's his call we can't judge someone else's salvation. So if you say well if you do this or you do that you lose your salvation. That's not what the Bible teaches. Here are a few verses that show you cannot lose your salvation.
John 10:28-29
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 8:31-39
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;read more.
Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Hebrews 6:18-20
so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Hebrews 13:5
Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,”
1 Peter 1:5
who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Psalm 97:10
Hate evil, you who love the Lord,
Who preserves the souls of His godly ones;
He delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
John 10:28
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Hebrews 7:25
Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
John 6:39
This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Are you trying to foment rebellion against me or cause division?
Don't accuse the brethren.
Bring the Word of God.
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TibiasDad
Well-known member
If my understanding is correct, @jeremiah1five is an elderly poster, to whom we may seem to be “youngsters”. Be carful of making judgements about his intent, for that is beyond our scope of knowledge sans his making an explicit statement to verify our perspective of his motives.
This said, his biblical reasoning is not, in my estimation, sound, much less correct! Perhaps more prayer and less prosecution would be beneficial, while scripturally expressing our objections to his propositions and offering corrective explanations of the scripture he has misinterpreted.
Our job as believers is to stand for what we have come to believe and defend it in love! The Lord is the only judge, and the only one to whom we will answer! If we would all focus on what we are personally called to be ( ie, removing the log from our own eyes) , we would see a lot more progress in our “Christ likeness”, if not our agreement.
Doug
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I see the problem, Douglas.
Most Gentile Christians look at the Bible backwards instead of forward. Jesus had the same issue with the religious leaders who also didn't understand His words and purpose:
First, Jesus speaks in the present tense:
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Jn 5:36–37.
Second, Jesus gives these people WHO THOUGHT they knew the Scripture:
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Jn 5:44–47.
In other words, the religious leaders did not understand what Moses said about Israel's Savior and Prophet like unto [me.]
And because they didn't understand what Moses said about Him, they would not understand Him.
Christians spend way too much time in the New Covenant writings and ignore the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets. They put the cart before the horse. If Christians would spend more effort reading and studying the Hebrew Scriptures that testify of Israel's Messiah, then they would understand the things I may say about this "so-great salvation." It's like sitting down to eat a meal. One can sit down and enjoy the meal, or one can learn and understand what went into the making of the meal to be enjoyed. Me, I love to cook, especially for others. Like Moses I'll get this ingredient, and that one, and with correct measurements add those ingredients together in order to end up with a finished product to be enjoyed by others. One can just sit down and eat the meal and not understand what went into the making of that meal (which is what Christians did in the past and do today), or they can learn and understand what the cook did in order to bring that meal to completion. Me? I find that learning how different and separated foodstuffs like flour, salt, sugar, oil, various kinds of poultry, pork, or beef go into making a scrumptious meal. Did Mom or Dad ever teach you some of their recipes? As a kid you sat down and took for granted knowing a meal would be on the table, right? But when you became a man and put away childish things and learned what Mom did in the kitchen and learn her recipes didn't it bring you closer to her and endear sweet memories of intimacy that you cherish for the rest of your life?
We can take for granted our salvation. Or we can look at everything that was done by the Cook of our salvation in the Hebrew Scriptures in order to FULLY UNDERSTAND what went on to bring our salvation to completion. Jesus makes this clear: If you don't understand and obey Moses, then HOW will you understand and obey me?
The answer is YOU CAN'T.
And because I have read, studied, and learned to understand what Moses and the prophets said about the Savior while others haven't, then the disconnect is more easily understood between my words and others misunderstanding of me.
They just don't know the Scripture (and I'm talking about the Hebrew Scripture.)
And that's the problem.
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Doug Brents
Well-known member
You make a great point here.
But we are not subject to the Old Covenant Law today. The OT Law is a great teaching tool, and a great source of understanding of who God is and how He interacts with His People. But it is not the guiding Law under which we operate today.
To take your example further, now that we are matured into adulthood, we are no longer compelled to cook the way our parents did. They had certain ways of preparing their food that are not mandatory for us today. So we are freer than they were, and can make different, even more delicious food combinations. We still use the same principles and understanding that they had, but we can expand beyond what they thought was possible.
So while it is good to know the Old Covenant for the lessons it teaches, and understanding of who God is and how He operates, we take our guiding principles and freedoms from the New Covenant.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
First of all, thank you for your response!
Secondly, and to the point, the NT is the expression of the OT as it was intended to be. That’s the point of much of Paul’s writing and the book of Hebrews if Paul is not the author. It shows us how the Law of Moses was pointing to the reality of Christ.
Therefore, if we read the NT, we are reading what the OT was actually saying in veiled form.
The law was never meant to be a means of salvation, that’s why Paul points back to Abraham, 430 years before the Law was given to Moses. It is only by faith that we are made righteous. Never by the keeping of the law.
Gal 3:
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? a 4Have you experienced b so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” c
7Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” d 9So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” f12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” h 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
If we believe in Christ, the law has been fulfilled!
Doug
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The cart before the horse.
Jesus kept kosher.
Saul kept kosher.
James, Peter, and John kept kosher.
Every Hebrew/Jew born-again kept the Torah as Jesus and if one is to be a Christ follower then keep the Torah.
That's what a disciple and follower does.
Oh, but we are not saved by the Torah, you say. Gentiles were never under the Torah, you say. Gentiles are not in the Abrahamic Covenant, you say. All of these are true. But in the Hebrew Scriptures and Jesus' words all say that everyone will be judge by the Torah. You're Gentile and a Christ follower and the Holy Spirit dwells within you? Then why do you "feel" or sense conviction if you have other gods before you, or commit a lie, or take the Lord's Name in vain? You're being convicted of disobeying/violating the Torah. There's no other Torah out there. And what did God mean to Israel that He would put His Torah in their inward parts? First, as Gentile understand and accept as true that none of the Hebrew Covenants include Gentiles. None. In fact, I've said continually that God has made no salvation covenant with Gentiles. None. And let's not elbow your way as Gentile into the Abrahamic Covenant because of your misunderstanding of Saul's words in Galatians 3:29. Let's stop all that nonsense. Type and shadow. You know what that is, right? If there is no precedence in the Hebrew Scripture (Torah, Psalms, Prophets) then there's no reality in the New Covenant writings (Matthew to Revelation - more Hebrew Scripture.)
In the Scripture God wrote with His finger His Torah on stone. The children of Israel were commanded obedience to His Torah, all three parts: Ceremonial, Social, and Moral. Various punishments were given for disobedience. But never does God give faith as requirement in either of the three salvation covenants. Besides circumcision (Abraham), and obedience (Moses), and the New Covenant there are no other requirements. That's simplifying it. But back to type and shadow.
The Torah/Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit of Promise. It is HE God Promised to put in the inward parts of the children of Israel. Now that the Holy Spirit of Promise in dwelling within a converted person -Jew or Gentile - God leads, guides, convicts a person from within. So, when one lies or steals or commits fornication or adultery - and believers will at times violate God's Torah - the Holy Spirit of Promise convicts the believer from within as the Torah written on stone did from without.
One more thing. Jesus Himself said (speaking to the lost sheep of the House of Israel):
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:17–19.
Christ fulfilled the Torah, but He adds "not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Torah till all be fulfilled." There are still Torah and prophecies that need to be fulfilled before heaven and earth pass (away - 2 Pete 3:10.)
Christ fulfilling the Torah (and certain prophecies) did not mean an end to the Torah or the prophecies. Revelation makes that clear enough. If Christ fulfilled Torah and prophecies and Christ is in our inward parts, then as our substitute we also have fulfilled Torah and prophecies through the Spirit of Christ that dwells in us. He is our justification and our righteousness. And before God we are "Not Guilty!" And before God we are holy. This means we still must obey the Torah to have no other gods before us, so let's put that Xbox back in its box and love God more than our wives. In fact, as men we put our wives in the house and our wives are our house, if you can understand this.
The Torah is not abolished or ended. If one were to say and teach this, and the Torah is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit of Promise then such commentary and teaching is tantamount to saying the Holy Spirit of Promise is abolished and ended.
And this is blasphemy.
Then, you end up with 'another' meal as much as you end up with 'another' gospel.
So, are we to hear and not do?
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev. 22:14.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:18–19.
First, one must "do His commandments" before one can have right to the tree of life and enter through the gates [of the kingdom of heaven.]
Our marching orders are hear and do.
