Eternal Security

Parker said:
It would seem to me if you had some repetitive pet sin that you're asking God to forgive you for, you would be repenting. How successful you are is another matter. That's where the 70 times 70 comes in. If you believed you asked for forgiveness and that God had forgiven your sin and cleansed you of all unrighteousness, then as time goes by you find yourself caught up in the same sin, that doesn't mean you didn't repent the first time.
Click to expand...
But you are not taking into account that those in Christ “have been set free” from slavery to sin (Rom 6:18) and that “His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” (2 Pet 1:3-4)

Furthermore, John says that the expectation of believers is to not sin (1 John 2:1) but if we do sin, “we have an advocate with the Father”, and continues his thought by saying “5But if anyone obeys his word, love for God a is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.”


Parker said:

Confession and Repentance​




As for John 8:11, Jesus commands an adulterous woman to “Go and sin no more. Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection.

So when Jesus says, “Go and sin no more,” He is not expecting that this woman is going to leave her sinful flesh at the door and never be tempted again. He is telling her to say no to the sin that dwells in her and stop the desire from being conceived; stop the temptation from becoming sin.

It should be the goal of all of us to “sin no more,” the truth is that, while we are in the flesh, we will still stumble (1 John 1:8).

Click to expand...
I am not saying that we don’t sin, or arguing for “sinless perfection”. Nor do I deny that new believers, or even more mature believers, can have “sins that easily beset [us]” (Heb 12:1), but I must also acknowledge that we can, and must, “throw off” these things.

Doug
 
Parker said:
Well the warning signs aren't meaningless regardless of eternal security. Some people will heed the warning signs and then one day find themselves breaking the speed limit.

Isn't a great we can discuss this stuff without argumentative. I love it:love:
Click to expand...
Again, the key is deliberate and continuous sinning. I am not an advocate of “one sin and salvation is lost”, but if one “returns to his vomit” like a dog that is a different animal! (Pun intended)

Doug
 
Rapture Bound said:
Salvation is secure. The promises of salvation are there to encourage the faint hearted and discouraged. The warnings are there to awake the complacent, presumptuous, backsliding or sinning. God utilizes both blessings and warnings in order to fulfill His promise to preserve ALL of His children.
Click to expand...
Good statement Salvation is secure. All believe it's secure whether believing OSAS or not, but secure in different ways of thinking about the word. I believe it's secure on the condition of choosing to remain in Christ and abide in him. (to clarify not meaning one's lost their salvation for the reason they've had a struggle with sin. To leave abiding in Christ would entail a lot more than that. ) Universalists believe it's secure for reasons that you and I wouldn't agree.

Now to your statement you believe God gives warnings.....to preserve ALL of his children. We can agree with that too. Question though what is the end result of the warning? What did he warn them could happen? Jn 15:4,6 talks about abiding and other verses talk about continuing. So what's the end result of the warning or what is the warning.....they potentially could be what? It says,

"... cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Jn 15:6

How would that be not losing one's salvation. They were abiding in him and didn't continue.
 
TibiasDad said:
Again, the key is deliberate and continuous sinning. I am not an advocate of “one sin and salvation is lost”, but if one “returns to his vomit” like a dog that is a different animal! (Pun intended)

Doug
Click to expand...
Scripture is clear that a saved person can never be lost. It is equally clear that a genuine Christian will never fall back into total unbelief. That kind of apostasy proves an individual was never really born again.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19

Your first point about deliberate and continuous sinning reminds me of a "License to sin". We know there's no such thing. Once you've tasted the life Jesus gives the abundant life and you know anything about the Bible you will know that deliberate and continuous sinning is not going to work.

If a person is genuinely saved, his life will change for the better (2 Corinthians 5:17). He is saved "for good works" (Ephesians 2:10), and there is no way he can fail to bring forth at least some of the fruit that characterizes the redeemed (cf. Matthew 7:17). His desires are transformed; he begins to hate sin and love righteousness. He will not be sinless, but the pattern of his life will be decreasing sin and increasing righteousness. Christianity.com
Click to expand...

Dogs are pretty curious animals they'll definitely check a pile of their own vomit out with a few sniffs and maybe a lick. But they do have the intelligence to know the food from their master is better than a pile of vomit. My guess would be they would leave the pile of vomit and go for the real food that their master provides.
 
Rockson said:
In my last post #761 I made the analogy one can make the full provision for you to have a bus journey. When they provided full provision they provided full provision. Doesn't mean though you can't choose to leave the bus.

Just to mention to as you put in brackets above, (Loss of Salvation Advocates) That does impact the mind a certain way as one sees those words. Just know ones' who don't believe on OSAS no matter what aren't pushing to want to see anyone not saved, but rather that it is possible for one loose it.

In one sense one not believing in OSAS could actually be the one to make another secure so they don't loose their salvation. Another might become ever so careful to make sure that they remain and continue rather then think they can do the opposite and God's got this. Words can't describe what a dangerous doctrine that can be. God does have this our salvation, and it can be secure but what is each one doing? Are some leaving the bus?

Of course it was. Recall my bus analogy.....but are you choosing to get off the bus between the start and the finish? That's the real question.

For sure. God will always seek to encourage his saint and work the work of sanctification within them if they're willing. That requires deciding to remain and abide in him.

OK so I think you know this to be true and if the child of God has a role to play then the child of God has a role to play. A role to play in what? A role to play in insuring they reach the blessed end result you spoke of above to attain the glorious state of heaven. If they don't play their role then they're not playing their role.....no positive end result.
Click to expand...

"In one sense one not believing in OSAS could actually be the one to make another secure so they don't loose their salvation."

Well, if your statement is true, it simply provides more evidence that God will preserve all of His children - they are tailored made for each of His children - He knows exactly what each one will need in order for them to continue in the faith - by faith.

However, if your statement is true, it appears to me that those who do not believe in OSAS will be in a perpetual struggle to rest in Christ's finished work - since they believe they may be among the number of those who will actually "lose their salvation".

You also stated " God does have this our salvation, and it can be secure but what is each one doing?" --- how can a person who believes that some believers will forfeit their salvation not but believe that they may be among that number ... if they are not "doing" enough?

"Another might become ever so careful to make sure that they remain and continue rather then think they can do the opposite and God's got this. Words can't describe what a dangerous doctrine that can be."

Here you hit on a very important point that is so often misunderstood by those who believe in some version of LOS [Loss Of Salvation]. The assumption is often made that those who hold to OSAS promote some type of "license to sin" mindset since they believe they are guaranteed a future entrance into Heaven.

Nobody "gets away" with sinning ... period. The non-elect will pay for their sins eternally at the end of their lives by virtue of not receiving God's free gift of forgiveness and eternal life through Christ's shed blood. As for the blood-washed saint, they will receive God's chastening hand if they shall decide to resist God's warnings. Some believers will receive more disciplinary actions than others [by taking the "harder route" in their sanctification process], but all believers are said to receive God's chastening hand.

Hebrews 12:6-7 KJV
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

God will preserve us in our faith even though at times we may doubt and wander from the path of righteousness. But He will always remain true to his promise by ensuring that none of His children will fall so far as to finally and forever fail. God will preserve us, we will in fact persevere, we will endure in the faith by faith.
 
Do you possess a true or false sense of security/ assurance concerning your salvation?

The following post features an extremely important conversation that I had with a friend who holds to the LOS [Loss Of Salvation] position.

The question that we were discussing was, "Are all of a believers sins [past, present, and future] already forgiven as it pertains to a believer's justified standing before God?"

Here's the dialogue which, in essence, displays the distinction between a person's possession of a true or a false sense of eternal security before God :

Me : Another way to perceive the question would be, "Can believers possess a present assurance of a future entrance into Heaven? ... or will failure on the part of some to confess or repent of their future sins "sufficiently" disqualify them from their Heavenly inheritance [in which case will necessarily render the impossibility of any single believer from possessing the present assurance that their future sins will never disqualify them]?

Many of those who believe that some genuine believers will lose [forfeit] their salvation agree that the believer can [and must] have assurance that they are a child of God. However, they don't believe this assurance includes a "future tense assurance." That is to say, they claim that this assurance can only be a present possession - believers are yet in some type of "probationary standing" in which they may yet fail to inherit what God has promised them [concerning their Heavenly inheritance ... future tense]. And if what they are saying is true, they cannot even logically claim to possess assurance that they will "remain saved" come next week or even tomorrow for that matter!

As I see it, the crucial question to ponder in the midst of this is, "Were genuine believers merely placed into some sort of probationary period [the first of a "two-step process" necessary to make the "final cut"?]. Or, did Christ's blood shed at Calvary actually and decisively atone for, and end once for all, the question of the issue of God's wrath and condemnation as it relates to those who have been washed by the precious blood of Jesus? It is my strong conviction that the latter is the gospel truth... it truly is the Good News that God legitimately offers to all.

To illustrate my assertion - What if a friend of mine was to say to me, "Today I've received Jesus as my Lord and Savior! I've placed all my faith and hope in His atoning work for the forgiveness of my sins; it's like a ten ton weight has been lifted off of me!!"? ... Should I respond by saying, "Praise God for this amazing news, I hope and pray that you make it to Heaven someday, I hope that you realize that you are still on probation despite the fact that you have been washed and cleansed you by the blood of Jesus?" ... I certainly hope that wouldn't be your response [whether it be verbal or your internal mind-set].

Now, it may be true that I may wonder if he or she truly placed their faith in Christ's atoning work on their behalf, and have asked for forgiveness solely on that basis. And, I may anxiously await to see if their are any fruits or evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence subsequent to my friend's profession of faith. But once again, the question revolves full circle back to question of genuineness. Was that person's faith truly "saving", was their faith directed, and placed upon the proper object of faith?... that being Christ's atoning work and His righteousness alone apart from anything that they can offer.

The real question at hand here is NOT, "will any person who has been justified before God lose or forfeit that position?"...but rather, "did that person ever experience the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and a justified standing before God?"

Friend : It's an important questions that you bring up. I guess if you believe you can be saved and down the road lose your salvation, you can only be 100% sure of your present state of being a saved person.

But even if you can forfeit salvation for whatever reason, it doesn't mean there must be insecurity. Like being a dad to a child. The possibility of you leaving your child is there, but it's not like you are afraid this might happen, or feel insecure about it. Yet such things happen, even to good people.

Me : You replied "But even if you can forfeit salvation for whatever reason, it doesn't mean there must be insecurity."

Well, from my perspective, it doesn't seem logically possible that at least some degree of insecurity doesn't exist in the minds of those who believe in LOS [Loss Of Salvation]. If they claim that some genuine blood-bought believers will ultimately perish, what then provides them with the assurance that they will not be one of those casualties? What then is it exactly that makes them so [presently] assured that they [specifically] are not going to be counted among those casualties? ...what makes them [as individuals] so special? ...what then provides [them] any type of genuine security or guarantee?

Keep in mind that it's exclusively those who assert that at least some genuine believers will necessarily and ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire [LOS] that can logically claim that their future sins have not yet been forgiven [present tense] and covered by trusting in [past tense] the blood of Christ. In other words, in their case, and in their minds, they may or may not continue in their justified status before God [i.e. - their eternal destiny is yet (presently) in jeopardy].

Therefore, if their eternal destiny is yet in jeopardy, it appears to me that there must necessarily be some degree of present insecurity. After all, according to the LOS mindset, they may or may not remain in a justified standing before God next month or even next week [varying and depending upon just how short of a time period each individual LOS person reckons is sufficient to potentially forfeit their justified status].

Friend : You stated, "Keep in mind that it's exclusively those who assert that at least some genuine believers will necessarily and ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire [LOS] that can logically claim that their future sins have not yet been forgiven [present tense] and covered by trusting in [past tense] the blood of Christ."

Check Lutheran theology. They certainly believe God has forgiven us past, present and future sins, yet they believe you can forfeit your salvation.

No genuine believer will be cast into the lake of fire, but if you can stop being a genuine believer in the future the possibility is there.

The security for the Lutheran comes from knowing that God will keep you as long as you keep trusting in Him alone for your salvation. Lutherans believe if you start to include works into the equation you have gone from grace to putting yourself under the law, and is thereby putting your salvation at risk.

Ask Lutherans if they feel uncertain about their future salvation. I know the answer. They will most certainly tell you "no!"

Me : You replied, "Ask Lutherans if they feel uncertain about their future salvation. I know the answer. They will most certainly tell you "no!"

It seems to me that that type of security is a false sense of security ... Why? as I clearly demonstrated in my prior post, by their own admission they say that some of them will forfeit their justified status [i.e - their justified status in in jeopardy ... it is changeable/alterable. Some "Protestants" or "non- Roman Catholics" even believe that they can "morph in and out of their justified status" [i.e - born again, "un-born again", then - "born again ... again", "un-born again ... again" ...etc., etc. etc. - can you see the folly in this?] - which is clearly the Roman Catholic Church position]. Why do they presume that they are one of those who will "pass the test"? What is the basis or grounding for their so-called "assurance"? ... it simply does not exist, that is, if their claim is true that some blood-bought believers will actually forfeit their justified status and perish eternally?


You said, "The security for the Lutheran comes from knowing that God will keep you as long as you keep trusting in Him alone for your salvation."

My question to them would be, "How can I be assured that I will keep trusting in Him?" ..."what exactly is the basis or grounding for such a presumption? ... again, that is, if their claim is true that some blood-bought believers will actually forfeit their justified status and perish eternally? ... it simply doesn't exist.

Friend : no further response.
 
Rockson said:
Good statement Salvation is secure. All believe it's secure whether believing OSAS or not, but secure in different ways of thinking about the word. I believe it's secure on the condition of choosing to remain in Christ and abide in him. (to clarify not meaning one's lost their salvation for the reason they've had a struggle with sin. To leave abiding in Christ would entail a lot more than that. ) Universalists believe it's secure for reasons that you and I wouldn't agree.

Now to your statement you believe God gives warnings.....to preserve ALL of his children. We can agree with that too. Question though what is the end result of the warning? What did he warn them could happen? Jn 15:4,6 talks about abiding and other verses talk about continuing. So what's the end result of the warning or what is the warning.....they potentially could be what? It says,

"... cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Jn 15:6

How would that be not losing one's salvation. They were abiding in him and didn't continue.
Click to expand...
You Got it. In order to be saved you have to have Jesus, continuously. My opinion is if you walk away from Jesus you were never really one of his followers.

Makes me think of Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Maybe if you're not a True Believer your not really able to pretend you are for very long. The darkness has nothing to do with the light or vice versa. They do not mix. What happens when a room is totally dark and you add light? The darkness disappears. What happens when there is a light in the room and you add darkness? The darkness again disappears! Darkness cannot stand before light. Deception cannot stand before the truth!

My suggestion is if you're worried about losing your salvation then do what the Apostle Paul advises people to do... submit yourself to God and resist the devil. He says that the devil will flee from them. Then keep on trucking with Jesus.
 
TibiasDad said:
Again, the key is deliberate and continuous sinning. I am not an advocate of “one sin and salvation is lost”, but if one “returns to his vomit” like a dog that is a different animal! (Pun intended)

Doug
Click to expand...
Yes 1 John has plenty of warnings written to believers with continuing in sin.
 
Rapture Bound said:
Yes indeed, IF we don't continue IN HIM then we will not be one who will be gathered ... however, God promises to preserve all of His children :

Ezekiel 36:26-28,”And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ***And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.*** You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.”

This wonderful promise to the nation of Israel was cut at Calvary, and the wonderful promise to give His people a new heart and put a new spirit within is fulfilled in the life of (all) who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Savior of their soul and the Mediator for their sins. < What Does Ezekiel 36:26 Mean?
Click to expand...
To answer your last question first what does Ezekiel 36 mean? It means as you rightly stated.....God bringing about the means whereby his Spirit would be able to be put into man. It foretold of what we call today being born again Jn 3:3 and becoming a partaker of the divine nature. 2 Pt 1:4 If I'm understanding you correctly though it seems you're implying when it says he'll cause to walk in his statues that you're imposing into the text a guarantee that this is the way if will go and men could never choose another way....that is from one who did receive his Spirit.

First you know (we can talk about it on this level) that couldn't mean what it's saying. If so one would be entirely sinless and never have a potential to fall into sin again. Both of us know that's not true. Can we take it to the level you would say though.....that yes men could still sin but at the end of the day it's a guarantee from this verse that the person would never become unsaved?

I would say that you couldn't really say that. We might seek to impose that meaning into the text but remember it's one verse of scripture which doesn't actually say what you're saying, albeit it doesn't not say what you're saying BUT....you have all the other verses and whole passages of scripture which bring the fullest revelation about the subject, in the NT as in John 8:31 which speaks about continuing and 2 Pt 2 which speaks along the same way as well and that is we are to continue. If one doesn't I hardly believe they can be confident they'll receive the salvation blessing.
 
Jesus loves us too much to allow us to lose our salvation. The Bible tells us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Since he died for us while we were yet sinners I think he has a plan to keep us safe. I don't think it was "he died on the cross so he did his part now the rest is up us".

But that's not what happened. He left us the holy spirit. It's through the power of the Holy Spirit, believers are saved, filled, sealed, and sanctified. The Holy Spirit reveals God’s thoughts, teaches, and guides us into all truth. The Holy Spirit also helps us in our weakness and intercedes for us.
 
Azriel said:
We need more response, You have good responses. We're only getting warmed up here. Civic hasn't got back from his Bible study yet and he's going to lay down some more responses that will knock your socks off.
Click to expand...
I sure hope so. I've got a hole in one of my socks and need to put new ones on anyway!
:)
 
The Abundant life one that is a fruitful life.

God created plants to fruit and propagate themselves. Jesus cursed the fig tree. Why? It was green but did not bear fruit so He cursed the tree. A good tree brings forth good fruit. You will know them by their fruits. God is life and created man and plants to bring forth life. I came that you might have life and life abundantly. A fruitful life is Gods design for us. The Fruit of the Spirit in us is our evidence we have life (the Spiritual life, born of the Spirit) which God created us for His good works that He prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We are Gods workmanship created for that purpose.

The parable of the sower in which the good soil produces much fruit. God did not create man, animals and plants to look good but to multiply, bear fruit, procreate. They(we) are agents of life to bring forth fruit, life. We are created in Gods image to bring forth life, to be fruitful and multiply.

It’s the nature of God to send, distribute, equip, empower and to set free. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to accomplish this in our life. Jesus had to leave to give us the Holy Spirit. Jesus greatest thing He did as a leader of men was to leave. He removed Himself to give us His Spirit. And the result was to Be fruitful!

Sin brought forth death, unfruitfulness, thorns, thistles, labor etc….

Gods truth like water is designed to bring forth life/fruit. Truth is not an end to itself but the foundation for life. Fruit brings glory to God. Salvation is not the end game either but fruit in your life, good works. Faith without works/fruit is dead. James 2:17

Philippians 1:9-11

And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; 11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousnesswhich comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Titus 3:14

And our people must also learn to devote themselves to good works in order to meet the pressing needs of others, so that they will not be unfruitful.

James 3:18

Peacemakers who sow in peace reap the fruit of righteousness.

John 15:8

Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Psalm 1:2-3

But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers.

Ezekiel 47:12
Along both banks of the river, fruit trees of all kinds will grow. Their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. Each month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will be used for food and their leaves for healing.

Truth is from God and lies are from satan. This is the cosmic battle but the ultimate reality of the battle is that one leads to Life and the other leads to death.

The Parable of the Talents Matthew 25

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

hope this helps !!!
 
The absolute forgiveness of our sins is just as rock solid as the historic reality of Christ’s death. It is important that we grasp this wonderful truth of the gospel because we can face our sins only when we know they are forgiven. Jesus is the Rock. The Hebrew word for "Rock" indicates firmness, stability, and faithfulness. What would it be like to worship a God whose "truth" changed from time to time? Could such a God be trusted?

He tells us that he came to give us eternal life but if we could lose that eternal life that he's given us then something must have changed that could make us lose our trust in him. If he said it was eternal but then we find out it's not really that eternal. See the dilemma?

On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand: all other ground is sinking sand We want to be on the solid rock of eternal security. All other ground is shifting sand.

In order for us to understand this we need to see the cleansing from sin’s power in two stages. The first is deliverance from the dominion or reigning power of sin that is decisive and complete for all believers. The fact that we've been set free from the power of sin and death,

The second is freedom from the remaining presence and activity of sin that is progressive and continues throughout our lives on earth.

Paul writes that we “died to sin,” and “we have died with Christ.” Through our union with Christ in His death, we have died not only to sin’s guilt but also to its reigning power in our lives. This is true of every believer and is accomplished at the time of our salvation when God delivers us from the domain of darkness and transfers us to the kingdom of His Son.
 
Rockson said:
To answer your last question first what does Ezekiel 36 mean? It means as you rightly stated.....God bringing about the means whereby his Spirit would be able to be put into man. It foretold of what we call today being born again Jn 3:3 and becoming a partaker of the divine nature. 2 Pt 1:4 If I'm understanding you correctly though it seems you're implying when it says he'll cause to walk in his statues that you're imposing into the text a guarantee that this is the way if will go and men could never choose another way....that is from one who did receive his Spirit.

First you know (we can talk about it on this level) that couldn't mean what it's saying. If so one would be entirely sinless and never have a potential to fall into sin again. Both of us know that's not true. Can we take it to the level you would say though.....that yes men could still sin but at the end of the day it's a guarantee from this verse that the person would never become unsaved?

I would say that you couldn't really say that. We might seek to impose that meaning into the text but remember it's one verse of scripture which doesn't actually say what you're saying, albeit it doesn't not say what you're saying BUT....you have all the other verses and whole passages of scripture which bring the fullest revelation about the subject, in the NT as in John 8:31 which speaks about continuing and 2 Pt 2 which speaks along the same way as well and that is we are to continue. If one doesn't I hardly believe they can be confident they'll receive the salvation blessing.
Click to expand...

"If I'm understanding you correctly though it seems you're implying when it says he'll cause to walk in his statues that you're imposing into the text a guarantee that this is the way if will go and men could never choose another way....that is from one who did receive his Spirit."

No, I'm not implying that God will cause all true believers to walk in His statues; but yes, I am affirming what we are clearly told in that verse of scripture. Therefore I obviously don't believe that I'm imposing anything on the text.

He causes us to walk in His statues by regenerating us into new creatures in Christ along with implementing the means by which He will make good on His promise to preserve us [both positive and negative means]. When a person is miraculously transformed into a new creature by the operation of the Holy Spirit, the result is that person's nature being altered in such a way that they will respond to God's various means to preserve them.

The case of a believer's preservation is not one in which a believer's ability to choose ["free will"] is obliterated subsequent to their regeneration. Rather, it's the result or consequence of the believer's miraculous and radical transformation into a new creation by the Holy Spirit along with God's implementation of His preservative means [both positive - blessings and negative - warnings and chastenings] that ensures no genuine believer of ever finally and forever falling [forfeiture of their salvation].

My OSAS Arminian position here incorporates the Molinist "can/won't" principle which asserts that although a genuine believer can finally and forever fall away [which asserts the possession free moral agency] ... not a single one of them actually will choose such a course of destruction. Just because a person possesses the ability to perform an action, that fact, in and by itself, in no way whatsoever necessitates any one of those persons to actually perform the action ; in other words, yes they can fall away ... and no, not one of them will actually and ultimately choose such a course of action.

And yeah ... I know .. Molinism scares a lot of people away since it's often so misunderstood and misrepresented ... but in the end, in my opinion, provides the most scripturally and intellectually satisfying answer concerning the "if's"... the warning passages. Consequently, most believers fight hard against anything that involves philosophical soteriology ... falsely assuming that all philosophy is necessarily "demonic" in nature ... therefore, I prefer to simply call it "reasoning" [Isaiah 1:18].

My OSAS Arminian position remains a minority position, and it's one that radically differs from the majority OSAS Calvinist viewpoint - in that the [consistent] Calvinist asserts that the various warning passages are not directed toward genuine believers .. but rather merely professing, counterfeit believers.
 

Similar threads

Behold
God's Salvation
Replies
0
Views
115
Behold
Behold
Rowan
The Gift of Grace
2 3
Replies
56
Views
932
civic
civic
brightfame52
Salvation by Grace through Faith
Replies
9
Views
82
Eternally-Grateful
E
Olde Tymer
A Vote Of Confidence
Replies
0
Views
140
Olde Tymer
Olde Tymer
Behold
Paul's Doctrine : #1
Replies
9
Views
314
civic
civic
Back
Top Bottom