Eternal Security

[Rapture Bound]

The issue of "works salvation" eventually and inevitably revolves full circle back to the age-old dispute centering around the Latin phrase "Sola Fide" [Faith Alone]. It's become much more difficult to contend for Sola Fide in the modern day "church" climate. How so? Back in the days of the Reformation the debate was basically between the Protestants and the Roman Catholics [rejecting the Reformational perspective on Sola Fide].

Today however, the atmosphere has become all so convoluted. Many "Protestant" [and/or non- Roman Catholic] churches use and support the same arguments [heresies] that the R.C.'s used in the dispute against the early Reformers on the issue ... while, in the same breath say, "man ... those Roman Catholics teach a counterfeit Gospel message ... we need to get out there and get them saved." And perhaps just as tragic, others of them tell me, "relax man ... being a Christian is not about doctrinal truth ... it's simply about loving Jesus ... get over that meaningless Reformational theology "thingy" already" ... God help us!

 

[Grace ambassador]

We will not receive the declaration of righteousness if we do not equally obey God's command to repent, and confess Jesus, and be baptized.

Precious friend, depends 'which' Dispensation one lives in, and
'which' Tense you are considering:

In God's ( earthly ) Context (Dispensation) of prophecy / Covenants / law

Christ, the Humble Servant ( on earth ) taught the gospel of the
kingdom ("at hand") to Twelve apostles, for the Twelve tribes of Israel...
(Matthew - John) "faith PLUS works" (James to Twelve tribes 1:1):

"And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."​

(Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15}​

"He that believeth And is baptized Shall Be Saved;​

but he that believeth not shall be damned..."​

​

Also, prayerfully and Carefully notice "what accompanies water baptism":

​

"...And these signs Shall Follow them that believe; In My Name​

shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;​

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing,​

it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they​

shall recover." (Mark 16:16-18)​

Thus, If water baptism is for today, then these are Also, Correct?

Carried out, Correct?:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you​

in The Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive​

The Gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38) [ Notice Two baptisms ]​

However "God Changes things", after Israel falls, and the above "Cannot
bless the world" through them (Right Division points 6-7):

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That Differ!" (online)

In God's Other ( Heavenly ) Context (Dispensation) Of Grace, According To His
"Revelation Of The Mystery" (Romans - Philemon) Christ, The Risen / Glorified
Lord Of Glory, From Heaven, To One apostle, Paul, for One Body, Today:

Repent and believe, receiving "By Grace Through faith" (apart from all works):

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance​

toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." (Acts 20:21)​

​

"...( By Grace ye are Saved; )...For By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that​

not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."​

(Ephesians 2:5, 8-9)​

​

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According To His Mercy ​

He Saved us, By The Washing of Regeneration, and Renewing Of The Holy Ghost;​

Which He Shed On us Abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being​

Justified By His Grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."​

(Titus 3:5-7 cp Romans Chapters 3-5)​

​

"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace is no more Grace. But if​

it be of works, then is it no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6)​

+
Double notice:

One Baptism (Ephesians 4:5) =​

God's Grace Context Of His "Seven Spiritual Unities" [ = No water! ]:​

"For By One Spirit are we all Baptized into One Body,​

whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond​

or free; and have been all made to drink into One Spirit."​

(1 Corinthians 12:13 cp Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27;​

Colossians 2:10-13 Complete In Him ( Jesus Christ )!)​

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ↑ "Declaration Of Righteousness!" ↑

Amen.
------------------
Part 2 By Grace Through faith, to be continued...

 

[Grace ambassador]

Part 2 By Grace Through faith:

We will not receive the declaration of righteousness if we do not equally obey God's command to repent, and confess Jesus, and be baptized.

Precious friend, for your thoughtful, prayerful, and Careful consideration:

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not​

trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered​

us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He​

will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10) =​

The Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation, Today, Under Grace:

Is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing God's Differences Be-
tween "His Relationship With us," And "our fellowship with Him!"?

God's Will, Today, Under His Pure Grace? Very Simply:

► faith ◄
1) Past Tense = "...God delivered us from so great a death...":

God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who
humbly repent (change mind that "sin is Wrong!") and:

believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The Lord Jesus Christ,
His Death (Precious BLOOD), Burial, And His Resurrection,
According To The Scriptures!
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Ephesians 2:8-9; Rom Chapters 3-5)

"Grace Through faith" In The Merits Of His ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!​

(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23, 5:1)​

[ ↑ "God's Declaration Of Righteousness" ↑ ]​

This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [ Second ] Death! (Rev 21:8) =
Justification and Spiritual Sanctification
(2 Corinthians 1:10a cp Romans 3:24 KJB)

1) ► faith ◄ God's Eternal ( One-Time Only ) Justification/Relationship

( Receiving From Him "His Declaration Of Righteousness" ) Is​

First, And, Then:​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That Differ" *

►► love ◄◄
(2) Present Tense = "...God doth deliver us...":

All believers Should do "good works (faith which worketh by love!)"
{Which will Never Equal Christ's Payment For the above Penalty of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In Christ, to perform for Him, having
"been Called into fellowship With Him!"
(Ephesians 2:10; 1Corinthians 1:9 KJB) Amen?:

We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This
Should Be a lifetime of Daily submission, and renewing,
being "not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:1-2),
for Grace Deliverance From the Power of sin!}
(2 Corinthians 1:10b KJB) = personal sanctification:

(2a) Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In One Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor​

as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB)​

(2b) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:

"Study to show thyself Approved Unto God, a​

workman that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly​

Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15) *​

Eternal Results: reward [ or loss ] (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 KJB),
ruling and reigning [ or not ] With Christ, Which Will Finally Be
At The Judgment Day!

►► love ◄◄ and, Finally:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That Differ" *

►►► Blessed Hope ◄◄◄
(3) Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":

Christ's Glorification of All "members" Of His Body!!
{This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Presence of sin!}
(1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57;
2 Corinthians 1:10c KJB).

Hallelujah! Praise His Excellent Name!!
----------------------------------
Conclusion:

BIG Differences Between the Three tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation,
And Between God's Relationship And our fellowship! Correct?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The Lord Jesus Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! *

Amen.

* "Things That Differ!" (online)

 

[Bronson]

I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor. 1:4–9

This is one of the clearest and most striking declarations of God’s commitment to preserve and protect us all the way through to the end.

 

[Seabass]

Scripture is clear that a saved person can never be lost. It is equally clear that a genuine Christian will never fall back into total unbelief.

Are you implying by this statement that once a person becomes a Christian it will be impossible for him to sin???

 

[Doug Brents]

Precious friend, depends 'which' Dispensation one lives in, and
'which' Tense you are considering:

In God's ( earthly ) Context (Dispensation) of prophecy / Covenants / law

Christ, the Humble Servant ( on earth ) taught the gospel of the
kingdom ("at hand") to Twelve apostles, for the Twelve tribes of Israel...
(Matthew - John) "faith PLUS works" (James to Twelve tribes 1:1):

"And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."​

(Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15}​

"He that believeth And is baptized Shall Be Saved;​

but he that believeth not shall be damned..."​

​

Also, prayerfully and Carefully notice "what accompanies water baptism":

​

"...And these signs Shall Follow them that believe; In My Name​

shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;​

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing,​

it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they​

shall recover." (Mark 16:16-18)​

Thus, If water baptism is for today, then these are Also, Correct?

Carried out, Correct?:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you​

in The Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive​

The Gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38) [ Notice Two baptisms ]​

However "God Changes things", after Israel falls, and the above "Cannot
bless the world" through them (Right Division points 6-7):

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That Differ!" (online)

In God's Other ( Heavenly ) Context (Dispensation) Of Grace, According To His
"Revelation Of The Mystery" (Romans - Philemon) Christ, The Risen / Glorified
Lord Of Glory, From Heaven, To One apostle, Paul, for One Body, Today:

Repent and believe, receiving "By Grace Through faith" (apart from all works):

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance​

toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." (Acts 20:21)​

​

"...( By Grace ye are Saved; )...For By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that​

not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."​

(Ephesians 2:5, 8-9)​

​

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According To His Mercy ​

He Saved us, By The Washing of Regeneration, and Renewing Of The Holy Ghost;​

Which He Shed On us Abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being​

Justified By His Grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."​

(Titus 3:5-7 cp Romans Chapters 3-5)​

​

"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace is no more Grace. But if​

it be of works, then is it no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6)​

+
Double notice:

One Baptism (Ephesians 4:5) =​

God's Grace Context Of His "Seven Spiritual Unities" [ = No water! ]:​

"For By One Spirit are we all Baptized into One Body,​

whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond​

or free; and have been all made to drink into One Spirit."​

(1 Corinthians 12:13 cp Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27;​

Colossians 2:10-13 Complete In Him ( Jesus Christ )!)​

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ↑ "Declaration Of Righteousness!" ↑

Amen.
------------------
Part 2 By Grace Through faith, to be continued...

There is only one baptism mentioned in Acts 2:38. And one of the results of that baptism is the reception of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling is not a baptism.

And there is no division in dispensation between the first few years of the Church (when it was only for the Jews) and today. The Church began on Pentecost, and grew with a completely Jewish membership until Cornelius was inducted into the Church. After that, the Church was a "mixed" group of all peoples who believe[d] in Christ. There is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile today. Biblically speaking, there is no longer any Jew or Gentile. The only division between peoples today is "believer" and "non-believer".

Your reference to 1 Corinthians 12:13 is erroneous. That passage does not tell us that baptism in the Holy Spirit (what some call "Spirit baptism") is the ONE baptism mentioned in Eph 4:5. Col 2:11-12 clears this up for us, for we can see there that it is the Holy Spirit that is taking action during baptism (in water as explained in 1 Pet 3:21) to remove our sins and unite us with Christ's death and resurrection. The Holy Spirit is active, but it is not Spirit baptism that is being referenced.

 

[Obadiah]

Is it possible for a person to experience some form of spiritual enlightenment and to taste spiritual blessings and to partake of the Holy Spirit yet never know Jesus in a saving way? I believe the answer is yes. One example is Judas.

 

[Doug Brents]

Is it possible for a person to experience some form of spiritual enlightenment and to taste spiritual blessings and to partake of the Holy Spirit yet never know Jesus in a saving way? I believe the answer is yes. One example is Judas.

The answer is most certainly NOT.
Judas was condemned, not because he betrayed the Lord, but because he did not seek forgiveness for his betrayal. Peter betrayed the Lord just as surely and completely as Judas did, but instead of killing himself, he lived with his shame until the Lord was there to forgiven him and welcome him back into righteousness. This does not in any way change the fact that someone who has become a partaker of the Holy Spirit's indwelling is saved.

 

[Hosanna]

Fair enough, but my point is that we cannot tell, at least not in a definitive way at first, if someone has truly believed. Charles Templeton preach with Billy Graham for years but died an atheist! I have trouble thinking that he never really believed. We cannot logically say that he didn’t believe or couldn’t have really believed. Only God knows the heart. To say that one who falls away at the end could not have been really saved is both a circular argument and something impossible for a human being to assess.

Doug

I don't think he did die an atheist. Did you see the last interview he did from Canada? He said he loved Jesus in it. He might have got tired of feeding those pigs and returned to his father's house.

A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ

This article discusses author Lee Stroble's interview with skeptic, Charles Templeton.

christiancourier.com

 

[Hosanna]

The answer is most certainly NOT.
Judas was condemned, not because he betrayed the Lord, but because he did not seek forgiveness for his betrayal. Peter betrayed the Lord just as surely and completely as Judas did, but instead of killing himself, he lived with his shame until the Lord was there to forgiven him and welcome him back into righteousness. This does not in any way change the fact that someone who has become a partaker of the Holy Spirit's indwelling is saved.

Judas was never saved, there was no forgiveness for him. He was an unbeliever. He died and unbeliever.

 

[Doug Brents]

Judas was never saved, there was no forgiveness for him. He was an unbeliever. He died and unbeliever.

Your opinion is duly noted. Yes, he died an unbeliever, but (and it is a moot point to be sure) he could have been saved if he had not killed himself. As I said, Peter's sin was no worse than Judas's. But Peter was forgiven, and Judas was not.

 

[Seabass]

I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor. 1:4–9

This is one of the clearest and most striking declarations of God’s commitment to preserve and protect us all the way through to the end.

Hi,

Verse 8 cannot be promoting the idea of eternal security for later in 1 Cor 9:27 Paul said he had to keep his body under control and discipline himelf lest he become a reprobate. The underlying Greek adokimos refers to something not fit, that has been rejected having not stood the test. The word is found in 2 Cor 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
Furthermore in 1 Cor 10 Paul used examples from the OT of those who would not obey God and as a result thhey fell in the wilderness to which Paul warns those Corinthians take heed lest ye fall. The word fall carries the idea of a change of position. One falls from a tree to the gound his location has changes. Those Cornthinas, if they did not heed, the psoition can change from a saved state to a lost one. Apostate means to move away from a previous standing...one moves from a previous saved statnding to a lost one. Logically one cannot fall from a position he is not nor can one fall into a position he already is in that being one cannt fall from a saved state he was not in nor can one fall into a lost state if he already is fallen.

Secondly, Paul already knows these Corinthians are involved in various sinful errors; from being divided, to abusing the Lord's Supper, taking each other before the law, not practicing church dscipline by not removing fornicators from among themselves, strife and boasting over the gifts given them by the Spirit, idolatry, etc., etc. In Paul's salutation of this letter before engaging them over these sins, Paul reminds them in 1 Cor 1:4-9 of who they are; Christians. That God will not abandon the Christian but this does not imply in anyway the Christian can never abondon God and be found faithless (2 Tim 2:13).

Lastly,
"Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Paul does NOT say those Corinthians were blameless now in their current state when he wrote them this epistle but he hoped that they would be found blameless later in the day of the Lord. For them to be found sinless, blameless in the day of the Lord means they must repent and find forgiveness NOW of all the various sinful errors they were involved in. A Christian (nor anyone) can live their life in blame and sin yet expect to be found blameless, sinless in the day of the Lord...such an idea is not Biblical nor logical.

Hence they must repent and find forgiveness NOW so God can erase away all their sins (justified by God) whereby THEN they can be found sinless and blameless in the day of the Lord. Paul points out what true repentance is in 2 Cor 7:1ff where verse 11 indicates those Corinthians repented...godly sorry worked earnest care in them...it made them think and have concern about the offences among them contrasted to their earlier indifference to their sinful offences... "cleansed themselves" v1. They were moved to give an account of themselves and their apathy....how angry and wroth they were about their indifference...they had the fear of God in them...they cleared themselves of this sinful error > they had already complied with Paul's instructions.

 

[Obadiah]

Your opinion is duly noted. Yes, he died an unbeliever, but (and it is a moot point to be sure) he could have been saved if he had not killed himself. As I said, Peter's sin was no worse than Judas's. But Peter was forgiven, and Judas was not.

The problem is he never believed Jesus was the savior.

 

[Obadiah]

The answer is most certainly NOT.
Judas was condemned, not because he betrayed the Lord, but because he did not seek forgiveness for his betrayal. Peter betrayed the Lord just as surely and completely as Judas did, but instead of killing himself, he lived with his shame until the Lord was there to forgiven him and welcome him back into righteousness. This does not in any way change the fact that someone who has become a partaker of the Holy Spirit's indwelling is saved.

Fuse condemned for the same reason every other non-believer is condemned.

 

[Hosanna]

Your opinion is duly noted. Yes, he died an unbeliever, but (and it is a moot point to be sure) he could have been saved if he had not killed himself. As I said, Peter's sin was no worse than Judas's. But Peter was forgiven, and Judas was not.

It's not an opinion it's in the Bible.

 

[Doug Brents]

It's not an opinion it's in the Bible.

The fact that he was not saved when he died is in the Bible. But the idea that he was never saved is not in Scripture at all. That is the opinion I noted.

 

[Rapture Bound]

I don't think he did die an atheist. Did you see the last interview he did from Canada? He said he loved Jesus in it. He might have got tired of feeding those pigs and returned to his father's house.

A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ

This article discusses author Lee Stroble's interview with skeptic, Charles Templeton.

christiancourier.com

Yes, that mind-blowing article is one that truly raises a whole lot of related questions. On my website, I posted a 5-part series where I address some of the main issues associated with the topic :

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 1 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 2 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-2/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 3 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-3/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 4 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-4/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 5 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-5/

 

[Ahar]

The fact that he was not saved when he died is in the Bible. But the idea that he was never saved is not in Scripture at all. That is the opinion I noted.

It is in the Bible, he was never one of them he was a thief from the beginning the son of perdition. It's not an opinion.

 

[Hosanna]

Yes, that mind-blowing article is one that truly raises a whole lot of related questions. On my website, I posted a 5-part series where I address some of the main issues associated with the topic :

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 1 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 2 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-2/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 3 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-3/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 4 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-4/

“Christian Deconversion”? – Part 5 https://raptureboundoutreach.com/2023/06/07/christian-deconversion-part-5/

Excellent blog, A lot of really good information on it. It's a great hobby to spend time in God's word. I read the first comment from Cheryl and your reply to her. I totally agree.

 

[TibiasDad]

I don't think he did die an atheist. Did you see the last interview he did from Canada? He said he loved Jesus in it. He might have got tired of feeding those pigs and returned to his father's house.

A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ

This article discusses author Lee Stroble's interview with skeptic, Charles Templeton.

christiancourier.com

Strobel certainly didn’t think so; he said Templeton “missed him”(Jesus) but didn’t think he could return to him because of his doubts. Templeton’s last words to him about Jesus were “Enough of that!”

Doug