Do Trinitarians really know their foundational core doctrines and their impact on their beliefs and others?

[Fred]

Should I cry or laugh.

You should think.

 

[Wrangler]

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Yes. Gnostism and extreme eisegesis.

They refuse to even consider a reasonable rejection criteria. So, without a rejection criteria, no presentation of facts, logic, moral principles or Scripture will penetrate their marble head protecting their closed mind. 'Jesus is God' they exclaim and nothing will change their mind on that.

I'm finding their replies non-responsive, as if they are not actually even understanding the question. They just regurgitate their indoctrinated mantras and double down on the back door rationalizations.

• My daugther said I am. She must be God.
• My cousin accepted prayer and worship. He must be God.
• My wife said 'my God' last night in bed. I must be God.
• My neighbor did not rebuke others mistakes. He must be God.

When I point out others in Scripture do all this, they seemlessly pivot to a change in subject. The power of manmade dogma is something to behold.

 

[APAK]

Yes. Gnostism and extreme eisegesis.

They refuse to even consider a reasonable rejection criteria. So, without a rejection criteria, no presentation of facts, logic, moral principles or Scripture will penetrate their marble head protecting their closed mind. 'Jesus is God' they exclaim and nothing will change their mind on that.

I'm finding their replies non-responsive, as if they are not actually even understanding the question. They just regurgitate their indoctrinated mantras and double down on the back door rationalizations.

• My daugther said I am. She must be God.
• My cousin accepted prayer and worship. He must be God.
• My wife said 'my God' last night in bed. I must be God.
• My neighbor did not rebuke others mistakes. He must be God.

When I point out others in Scripture do all this, they seemlessly pivot to a change in subject. The power of manmade dogma is something to behold.

Seen all this before. It's just another rerun with some slightly different twists. It all boils down to whether they really believe scripture for what it represents and says or that they first need to bring along their god model to reinterpret and fill in the many blanks in their heads for them - this institutional brainwashing. They do not trust scripture for who is the Son and who is the Father. They just don't because they have a preconceived idea in their heads already molded into their brains over the years. This monstrous man-made version of God is all they speak to. There is no budging it.

 

[e v e]

Well, once one abandons

1. Definitions
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture

Then it is easier to achieve anything goes.

Once one abandons Listening to Him..
(and that 4th item being the corrupt kjv
...not His words), then that list is what is left

lol

 

[101G]

Once one abandons Listening to Him..
(and that 4th item being the corrupt kjv
...not His words), then that list is what is left

lol

1 Corinthians 2:11 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." 1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

101G

 

[Fred]

• My cousin accepted prayer and worship. He must be God.

Your cousin is not the proper recipient of prayer. Therefore, your cousin is not God. Baal was prayed to, but that doesn't mean Baal is God (1 Kings 18:26).

 

[e v e]

@civic just tried to sell me that YHWH, our one true God, the ultimate LORD and Savior is also Jesus because he sees it in the OT and NT. Should I cry or laugh. He forgets that in the OT as in Isaiah he spoke to an audience that were not familiar with the Son of God. YHWH did not explain it all to them. YHWH never did clearly explain that he would still be the only Saviour and use a human son to execute this salvation. So a simpleton just looks at both the OT and NT and see or reads into scripture that they are speaking of the same subject like in Phil and Isaiah and force equality in meaning and subjects without explanation or reasoning. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

separate from your points here,
actually ieue did explain all...


what He said was tampered with
= kjv and before that septuagint

 

[civic]

Your cousin is not the proper recipient of prayer. Therefore, your cousin is not God. Baal was prayed to, but that doesn't mean Baal is God (1 Kings 18:26).

Yep

 

[civic]

Yes. Gnostism and extreme eisegesis.

They refuse to even consider a reasonable rejection criteria. So, without a rejection criteria, no presentation of facts, logic, moral principles or Scripture will penetrate their marble head protecting their closed mind. 'Jesus is God' they exclaim and nothing will change their mind on that.

I'm finding their replies non-responsive, as if they are not actually even understanding the question. They just regurgitate their indoctrinated mantras and double down on the back door rationalizations.

• My daugther said I am. She must be God.
• My cousin accepted prayer and worship. He must be God.
• My wife said 'my God' last night in bed. I must be God.
• My neighbor did not rebuke others mistakes. He must be God.

When I point out others in Scripture do all this, they seemlessly pivot to a change in subject. The power of manmade dogma is something to behold.

You forget there is a context. The Jews who followed Jesus worshipped Him. Thats clearly stated in numerous places in the N.T.

 

[Fred]

Yep

Not sure why this is so difficult for him to understand.

 

[civic]

Not sure why this is so difficult for him to understand.

Things that make you go hmmm for sure.

 

[Peterlag]

There are very few Trinitarians and even Binitarians for that matter who know the details of this doctrines and beliefs.

The trinity doctrine became the doctrine of the RCC by the end of the 5th century and later of the mainstream Protestants from the 16th century AD and on.

This god model with its incorporated core pivotal set of self-developing doctrines began in primitive forms during severe times of political and religious turmoil and persecution, over several centuries. The early Christians of the first century would not recognize most of these doctrines as the word of God.

Essentially, this god model states there always existed one eternal divine nature or essence or substance presented in the form or as part of three different and unique personalities or persons who collectively are called the one god or the triune god – a triad god. And it says that all three personalities operate interdependently as the one creator, the sovereign, the omnipotent, omnipresent ‘one’ god. And these three persons are labelled as three different roles or titled gods, although it insists they are not considered three separate gods. They are three person god titles in one strict order, as the first, the father, the second the son and third, the holy spirit.

Additionally, this god model calls for Jesus, as only being a divine person, acquiring or 'taking on' human nature through a process they call incarnation incorporated from Greek philosophy when he also donned human flesh and became a human male. And that means this person called Jesus after this process of incarnation of one divine hypostasis, is not or cannot be a human person under any circumstance. He was a human anhypostasis. Jesus had to be void of a human personality and therefore had no sense of human self or awareness, strictly speaking. And further, Jesus was also enhypostasis, his human nature was personalized to/into his divine person, as the 2nd person of the Trinity. And how all this occurred is fit for science fiction.

I hope so far all this is at least as clear as mud to everyone.

Deductively then, there are four outstanding points to be made thus far:

1. For this model to function, all three divine natured personalities must always function collectively, in-synch, transparently ubiquitously as one divine being of three divine persons else the triune god would fragment into separate person pieces. If just one of these cited three persons were not present, in synch or did not contribute to any action on this earth or in heaven, then their god would fragment into dust as certain myth.

2. For this model to function, Jesus Christ can only be a divine person and not a human person because then there could not be a triune god. Their triad or triune god would then become a quadrune god, of three divine persons and one human person.

3. For this model to function, Jesus Christ at some point in time acquired human nature besides divine nature, and therefore two natures in one divine person existed. And then at some later point in time discarded his human nature or kept it as dual natures in only one divine person. This would be critical in preserving the integrity of the triune god model. Does scripture ever remotely speak to this type of divine personality of Yahshua, the son of the true God.

4. For this model to function, Jesus must have pre-existed before he was incarnated into human flesh with the inclusion of human nature, absent of being a human person.

Now what impact does the presence of this type of Christian triune god have on scripture and the teachings of men and on people that receive this god? A great deal indeed! And we see the effects of this type of complex and undefined teaching today.

This is the reason for this thread, to list as many impacts caused by this triune god model on our beliefs, scripture, the teachings from religious writers and scholars, from Bible translators and from the orators who ride the pulpits on Saturdays and Sundays to many impressionable and ignorant human souls.

Does this god model bring folks close to the one true God, and does it really support the word of God when it says that Christ the Son of God clearly was born a HUMAN PERSON – a Son of MAN? According to John the gospel writer, this point is critical for belief for one’s salvation. One of the main threads and themes of the gospel of John especially, was to define and describe who was and is this man called Yahshua or Jesus - the true Son of God of a common born man.

No they do not. What they do is see the Scriptures through the eyes of what the Catholic put in the culture.

 

[e v e]

There are very few Trinitarians and even Binitarians for that matter who know the details of this doctrines and beliefs.

The trinity doctrine became the doctrine of the RCC by the end of the 5th century and later of the mainstream Protestants from the 16th century AD and on.

This god model with its incorporated core pivotal set of self-developing doctrines began in primitive forms during severe times of political and religious turmoil and persecution, over several centuries. The early Christians of the first century would not recognize most of these doctrines as the word of God.

Essentially, this god model states there always existed one eternal divine nature or essence or substance presented in the form or as part of three different and unique personalities or persons who collectively are called the one god or the triune god – a triad god. And it says that all three personalities operate interdependently as the one creator, the sovereign, the omnipotent, omnipresent ‘one’ god. And these three persons are labelled as three different roles or titled gods, although it insists they are not considered three separate gods. They are three person god titles in one strict order, as the first, the father, the second the son and third, the holy spirit.

Additionally, this god model calls for Jesus, as only being a divine person, acquiring or 'taking on' human nature through a process they call incarnation incorporated from Greek philosophy when he also donned human flesh and became a human male. And that means this person called Jesus after this process of incarnation of one divine hypostasis, is not or cannot be a human person under any circumstance. He was a human anhypostasis. Jesus had to be void of a human personality and therefore had no sense of human self or awareness, strictly speaking. And further, Jesus was also enhypostasis, his human nature was personalized to/into his divine person, as the 2nd person of the Trinity. And how all this occurred is fit for science fiction.

I hope so far all this is at least as clear as mud to everyone.

Deductively then, there are four outstanding points to be made thus far:

1. For this model to function, all three divine natured personalities must always function collectively, in-synch, transparently ubiquitously as one divine being of three divine persons else the triune god would fragment into separate person pieces. If just one of these cited three persons were not present, in synch or did not contribute to any action on this earth or in heaven, then their god would fragment into dust as certain myth.

2. For this model to function, Jesus Christ can only be a divine person and not a human person because then there could not be a triune god. Their triad or triune god would then become a quadrune god, of three divine persons and one human person.

3. For this model to function, Jesus Christ at some point in time acquired human nature besides divine nature, and therefore two natures in one divine person existed. And then at some later point in time discarded his human nature or kept it as dual natures in only one divine person. This would be critical in preserving the integrity of the triune god model. Does scripture ever remotely speak to this type of divine personality of Yahshua, the son of the true God.

4. For this model to function, Jesus must have pre-existed before he was incarnated into human flesh with the inclusion of human nature, absent of being a human person.

Now what impact does the presence of this type of Christian triune god have on scripture and the teachings of men and on people that receive this god? A great deal indeed! And we see the effects of this type of complex and undefined teaching today.

This is the reason for this thread, to list as many impacts caused by this triune god model on our beliefs, scripture, the teachings from religious writers and scholars, from Bible translators and from the orators who ride the pulpits on Saturdays and Sundays to many impressionable and ignorant human souls.

Does this god model bring folks close to the one true God, and does it really support the word of God when it says that Christ the Son of God clearly was born a HUMAN PERSON – a Son of MAN? According to John the gospel writer, this point is critical for belief for one’s salvation. One of the main threads and themes of the gospel of John especially, was to define and describe who was and is this man called Yahshua or Jesus - the true Son of God of a common born man.

God doesn't talk this way. deductive? God model?
Anyway you are late - greek philosophy already polluted Christianity...

Christ is so far from a common man.
the evil is esau, who tries to degrade our Deity
by greek and jewish philosophy and any other way.

 

[Peterlag]

The reason I made the post that you commented on was because nothing's going to move me from my position on the trinity. Not trying to be offensive to anyone, But it makes absolutely no sense to me at all that anyone would not believe in the trinity. As for my special I have that sure foundation, no question about it.

I would honestly like to know why God would have come to the earth as a man. What profit would that serve? What benefit would it accomplish?

 

[Peterlag]

Where are you coming up with all these rules you are imposing on what God can and cannot do?

I'm a limited creature—I let God tell me what he can and cannot do.

Well, there are things God cannot do. It seems according to Him that He cannot lie and He cannot die.

 

[Peterlag]

Even the pronouns in the Bible that refer to “God” are singular and there are lots of them. “The Hebrew Bible and the New Testament contain well over twenty thousand pronouns and verbs describing the One God” (Anthony Buzzard and Charles Hunting, The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity’s Self-inflicted Wound, International Scholars Publications, New York, 1998, p. 17). Singular pronouns include “I” “my” and “he.” We would expect it to say “For God so loved the world that they gave the Father’s only begotten Son….” if “God” were composed of three co-equal beings who each had their own mind and together agreed to send Christ. The fact that the pronouns in the Bible refer to “God” as a singular being is also evidence that there is no Trinity.

 

[101G]

Well, there are things God cannot do. It seems according to Him that He cannot lie and He cannot die.

don't mean to get into your conversation. can God Die? yes, the first death, (which is the death of the FLESH). Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
and that was made possible by being the ECHAD of himself in, in, in, Flesh.

101G.

 

[101G]

Even the pronouns in the Bible that refer to “God” are singular and there are lots of them. “The Hebrew Bible and the New Testament contain well over twenty thousand pronouns and verbs describing the One God” (Anthony Buzzard and Charles Hunting, The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity’s Self-inflicted Wound, International Scholars Publications, New York, 1998, p. 17). Singular pronouns include “I” “my” and “he.” We would expect it to say “For God so loved the world that they gave the Father’s only begotten Son….” if “God” were composed of three co-equal beings who each had their own mind and together agreed to send Christ. The fact that the pronouns in the Bible refer to “God” as a singular being is also evidence that there is no Trinity.

as for the WE and the OUR in Genesis 1:26, (which are pluralities), of one person. yes, "I" and "ME", can be plural in Ordinal designation. can you agree?

101G.

 

[101G]

@Peterlag, can 101G ask you a question? "Can the First also be the Last in Ordinal designations, yes or no?

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

as for the WE and the OUR in Genesis 1:26, (which are pluralities), of one person. yes, "I" and "ME", can be plural in Ordinal designation. can you agree?

101G.

God could have a whole bunch of things in heaven with Him such as angels and angel like creatures. Why do you guys always think He was talking to Himself?