See post 619.
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
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See post 619.
Okay. We just say Christ is God. The Father is God. The Spirit is God.
Peterlag
Well-known member
More data on Thomas... There are times when specific individuals are called Elohim, “God.” One example is Moses. In Exodus 7:1, God is speaking to Moses and says, “See, I have made thee God [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (Darby). Given the uniplural nature of Elohim, another translation is, “See, I have made you a god [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (BBE, KJV), but the fact is that Moses, who represents Elohim (“God”) can legitimately be called Elohim (“God”) in the biblical culture. Another example is when King Saul wanted to speak to the dead prophet Samuel and went to a woman who was a medium and necromancer (1 Sam. 28:7-15). When she conjured up “Samuel” (actually a demon impersonating Samuel), the woman said, “I see Elohim coming up from the ground” (1 Sam. 28:13). This is a good example of a person being called Elohim, and we could translate it “God” and understand the custom of God’s representatives being called “God,” or a more easily understood translation for the English reader is simply, “a god;” the woman saw “a god” coming up who she thought was Samuel.
What unrelated basis and even unholy findings to associate these verses with Thomas' recognition of Christ as God. I would have hoped Peterlag could have tried to find better random proof texts (like quote mining) before posting these.
You are dodging the use of "My God" because it refutes your heresy.
Peterlag
Well-known member
How can I be dodging when I keep posting info on it. Want more? I got it... Elohim, “God,” can also refer to angels or other spirit beings. One example is Psalm 8:5, which says God made mankind a little lower than Elohim. Given the flexible meaning of Elohim, the verse could be saying that God made mankind a little lower than He Himself, or it could be saying that He made mankind a little lower than his representatives in the spirit world, i.e., angels. Thankfully, the interpretation is not in doubt because the verse is quoted in Hebrews 2:7, which says “angels,” letting us know that in Psalm 8:5, Elohim refers to God’s representatives, the angels. Thus Psalm 8:5 is an excellent example of how the New Testament clarifies our understanding of the Old Testament. Another example is Judges 13:22, where Manoah and his wife saw an angel, but exclaimed, “We have seen God [Elohim].” Their statement made perfect sense in the biblical culture because they saw God’s representative.
dwight92070
Well-known member
1. So John the Baptist was mistaken when he said that Jesus existed before him, even though John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus? John 1:30
2. And Luke was mistaken when he says that Gabriel was sent to Mary (to announce that she would conceive Jesus in her womb) when John had been in Elizabeth's womb six months? Luke 1:26
3. And Jesus was mistaken when He said that He shared glory with the Father, before the world was?
4. And the apostle John is wrong when He said that the Word, which was God, became flesh - in the form of Jesus?
Your mistaken interpretation that Jesus began His actual life when Mary gave birth to Him is so easy to disprove - that I can't believe you even stated that. Yes, the physical body of Jesus began then, but His Spirit is eternal - He always was.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You guys got nothing. If this was in a court of law it would be thrown out for not having any solid evidence. Jesus was before everybody in the plan. He was the plan even before the Abraham plan.
John 20:28 has the word "Θεός" (Theos), not Elohim. Why do you even bring up the word "Elohim"? What's happening is that you're not doing your own research. Instead, you're parroting whatever Judaizing cults are saying.
If you understood English, the word "Theo" is reserved only for God. So the word "Theology" is a study of God, never a study of angels.
It's you who has "nothing. If this was in a court of law it would be thrown out for not having any solid evidence."
John 20:28 ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου.
civic
Well-known member
That’s a false presupposition since He is called God numerous times in scripture
dwight92070
Well-known member
The truth is that you don't accept solid Bible evidence, because it doesn't agree with your misinterpretation. I just gave you four solid Bible verses that plainly show that Jesus pre-existed - not physically, but in spirit. You denied His pre-existence, but obviously you are wrong.
Peterlag has been given much opportunity to argue against the verses showing the deity of Christ in the Godhead. His worst argument probably is the denial of Thomas's speaking of Jesus as Lord and God where Jesus could have rebuked Thomas directly. I questioned the idea of Christ's deity based on Paul's letter probably a bit over 10 years ago but got away from that idea. Now I have shown Gal 3:19-20 makes sense only in light of the deity of Christ. Those verses were not much recognized as speaking of Christ in the Godhead over the years and thus unlikely to have contributed to the Triune concept of God in the 4th century, so the verses act as an independent witness of Christ in the Godhead.
No, you don't get it.
When "my God" is used in the Bible by a believer it always refers to the Almighty.
Thomas would have most probably have known this and the Lord Jesus would have most definitely have known this.
Simple.
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
Fred said, "When "my God" is used in the Bible by a believer it always refers to the Almighty." Good, is not the "LORD" the Almighty? so then the "Lord" is the almighty, which JESUS holds both titles...... correct, yes or no?
101G.
MTMattie
Active member
101G
Well-known member
Our brother @Peterlag said, "We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together”if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. Such as words like God the son, the deity, trinity, or that “God” means “the Father” when Jesus speaks of himself and “God."
this is Good, so, let us HEAR what the Apostles said about God, ...... Jesus, ...... the titles, Father, .......Son. and a trinity or not. the bible is our definitive proof, correct?
let's look at a clear example of this definitive proof.
Keeping in step with the subject matter, “Your Views on The Trinity”. since the apostle Paul is the apostle to the uncircumcised/Gentiles, and the apostle Peter is the apostle the circumcise/Jews, let’s hear their biblical view on a trinity or not. Since both was sent by the Lord Jesus.
First The apostle Paul. On his way to Damascus, to lock up Christians, see Acts 9:2. he encountered the Lord Jesus on the road there, who commission him. For our brother Ananias said this, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."
Well the God of our fathers as Ananias said is the “LORD”, who many today say is the Father. So, correctly the Lord Jesus is the Father as well as the Son, the same one person. only in the ECHAD of Ordinal First and Ordinal Last.
101G.
this is Good, so, let us HEAR what the Apostles said about God, ...... Jesus, ...... the titles, Father, .......Son. and a trinity or not. the bible is our definitive proof, correct?
let's look at a clear example of this definitive proof.
Keeping in step with the subject matter, “Your Views on The Trinity”. since the apostle Paul is the apostle to the uncircumcised/Gentiles, and the apostle Peter is the apostle the circumcise/Jews, let’s hear their biblical view on a trinity or not. Since both was sent by the Lord Jesus.
First The apostle Paul. On his way to Damascus, to lock up Christians, see Acts 9:2. he encountered the Lord Jesus on the road there, who commission him. For our brother Ananias said this, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."
Well the God of our fathers as Ananias said is the “LORD”, who many today say is the Father. So, correctly the Lord Jesus is the Father as well as the Son, the same one person. only in the ECHAD of Ordinal First and Ordinal Last.
101G.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You were fine right up until the last sentence. God was the Lord in the Old Testament. Jesus is now the Lord in the New Testament. There's a verse that tells us that when it says God had made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Thomas never said Jesus you are the Almighty. I don't know why you think he did.
Peterlag
Well-known member
I posted below what you say are the four solid Bible verses. I count only 2. I can't respond to item 3 and 4 because there's no verse there. And this happens a lot to me. Folks say I did not answer and when I go back and look I see they did not provide a verse or I did answer and they did not accept my answer so they call it not answering.
1. So John the Baptist was mistaken when he said that Jesus existed before him, even though John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus? John 1:30
2. And Luke was mistaken when he says that Gabriel was sent to Mary (to announce that she would conceive Jesus in her womb) when John had been in Elizabeth's womb six months? Luke 1:26
3. And Jesus was mistaken when He said that He shared glory with the Father, before the world was?
4. And the apostle John is wrong when He said that the Word, which was God, became flesh - in the form of Jesus?
Peterlag
Well-known member
I don't see what you see.
