Your Views on The Trinity

[mikesw]

For Jews, there was no one and only way to commit blasphemy.
A person could blaspheme about any sacred thing that the enemies of such person regarded as blasphemous.
If a person talked against the Temple, for example, that person could be charged with blasphemy.
A charge of blasphemy could be easily concocted to eliminate an undesired individual.

Abraham was considered a sacred figure, the Father of the nation.
Christ was teaching that recognizing God as The Father is far more important that recognizing Abraham as a Father.
Christ was the Son of God. His accusers were proud to be children of Abraham. But God comes first, then Abraham.
Before Abraham, Christ was. And so Noah and Enoch. The gospel of God is eternal and goes beyond national heritage or ethnicity.

Jesus did not say anything against Abraham, so I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make.

 

[7xLightray]

"..he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man.."

May I ask, what passage, or verse, do you use for support of that statement?

 

[7xLightray]

"..The Trinity is a fact supported by the entire New Testament."

The Bible contains statements against the Trinity, like this 3-in-1 verse against the Trinity..

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.​

1. Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
2. Jesus cannot be the only true God that sent, because Jesus said he did not send himself! John 7:28-29; 8:42.
3. Jesus said this is what eternal life looks like for all of eternity, knowing only two, the Father and the Son, just the two persons!
Three witnesses in one verse against the Trinity! In the most important prayer, which actually happens to include the first most important commandment of all Mark 12:28.

And you cannot fit a 3-in-1 God into that confession of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is what the Lord said, not someone who wrote something after the time of the disciple John, who wrote, "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour." - 1 Jn. 2:18, and Jn. 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

The Bible is extremely clear that God is not a Trinity, even specifically (the number and the name Trinity, the 3-in-1 God, is in the Bible). The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person! That is our foundation, clearly spoken, in the New Testament!

And to continue to state "The Trinity is a fact supported by the entire New Testament." is willful blindness, raising one to arrogant status, which as Christians we want to put away. Sure, one may fool many who are worldly, but worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan!

 

[Peterlag]

May I ask, what passage, or verse, do you use for support of that statement?

Where did you get the half sentence from?

 

[7xLightray]

Where did you get the half sentence from?

Sure, ya sorry, Post #503.

Here's my take on
John 8:58
At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally, "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am." "I am" was a common way of designating oneself and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitarian argument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."

 

[Peterlag]

Sure, ya sorry, Post #503.

I wrote a lot of this stuff down and you can view it here... https://www.carb-fat.com/trinity.html

 

[synergy]

The Bible contains statements against the Trinity, like this 3-in-1 verse against the Trinity..

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.​

1. Jesus said the Father is the only true God!

You are ignoring context. Jesus is attacking polytheists with their multiple gods. Trinitarians are not polytheists so your attack falters.

2. Jesus cannot be the only true God that sent, because Jesus said he did not send himself! John 7:28-29; 8:42.

Again, we are not polytheists. Trinitarians believe in one God.
Also, the term "God" refers to His essence, not His Person. His Personhood has a name which is "I Am". In other words, you're mixing up essence/nature with Personhood.

3. Jesus said this is what eternal life looks like for all of eternity, knowing only two, the Father and the Son, just the two persons!
Three witnesses in one verse against the Trinity! In the most important prayer, which actually happens to include the first most important commandment of all Mark 12:28.

Quote Matt 12:28 and you'll see how Trinitarian it is.

The Bible is extremely clear that God is not a Trinity, even specifically (the number and the name Trinity, the 3-in-1 God, is in the Bible). The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person! That is our foundation, clearly spoken, in the New Testament!

And to continue to state "The Trinity is a fact supported by the entire New Testament." is willful blindness, raising one to arrogant status, which as Christians we want to put away. Sure, one may fool many who are worldly, but worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan!

I only comment on the Bible. Your rant has no support if it contradicts the Bible.

 

[7xLightray]

I wrote a lot of this stuff down and you can view it here... https://www.carb-fat.com/trinity.html

I was just looking for what passage, or verse, you use for support of this statement of yours, "..he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man.."?

 

[7xLightray]

You are ignoring context. Jesus is attacking polytheists with their multiple gods. Trinitarians are not polytheists so your attack falters.

Again, we are not polytheists. Trinitarians believe in one God.
Also, the term "God" refers to His essence, not His Person. His Personhood has a name which is "I Am". In other words, you're mixing up essence/nature with Personhood.

Quote Matt 12:28 and you'll see how Trinitarian it is.

I only comment on the Bible. Your rant has no support if it contradicts the Bible.

It be awesome if you addressed the points. I did not say anything about polytheists with their multiple gods, my point there is only one Person is God, and can only be one God person according to scripture. No, not the Trinity doctrine (which is true of any false doctrine, which twists truth, reality), but in reality, truth, three persons, whether they be God, teacher, or judge, are three Gods, teachers, and judges. The Trinity doctrine disagrees with this truth, reality. This makes it sorcery, magic, an old wives' fable, even a mystery religion of harlots.

The point is, Jesus cannot be the only true God, because Jesus did not send Himself, the only true God did. That means Jesus cannot be the only true God, because Jesus did not send himself. And eternal life looks like this, knowing only two Persons.

 

[7xLightray]

.."I only comment on the Bible. Your rant has no support if it contradicts the Bible.

That was most disingenuous, all my verses and comments were on the Bible; I have to give comments to the scriptures I give, to show my points.
This is what I wrote..

"The Bible contains statements against the Trinity, like this 3-in-1 verse against the Trinity..

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

1. Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
2. Jesus cannot be the only true God that sent, because Jesus said he did not send himself! John 7:28-29; 8:42.
3. Jesus said this is what eternal life looks like for all of eternity, knowing only two, the Father and the Son, just the two persons!
Three witnesses in one verse against the Trinity! In the most important prayer, which actually happens to include the first most important commandment of all Mark 12:28.

And you cannot fit a 3-in-1 God into that confession of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is what the Lord said, not someone who wrote something after the time of the disciple John, who wrote, "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour." - 1 Jn. 2:18, and Jn. 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

The Bible is extremely clear that God is not a Trinity, even specifically (the number and the name Trinity, the 3-in-1 God, is in the Bible). The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person! That is our foundation, clearly spoken, in the New Testament!

And to continue to state "The Trinity is a fact supported by the entire New Testament." is willful blindness, raising one to arrogant status, which as Christians we want to put away. Sure, one may fool many who are worldly, but worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan!"

That's right "if it contradicts the Bible", and so, seeing as you have not addressed my points, I understand that as, you could not find any contradictions, for you produced no scripture for one who "only comment on the Bible."

 

[Peterlag]

I was just looking for what passage, or verse, you use for support of this statement of yours, "..he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man.."?

Well, if the link I gave you proves that Jesus is not God. Then he could have only existed in the mind of God before he was born as God's plan. It's said we are seated in the heavens before the world began. That can only mean we existed in the mind of God before we were born. There's no reason why we should have lived before we were born. Same with Jesus. Also there's no reason that God would want to be a man.

 

[synergy]

That was most disingenuous, all my verses and comments were on the Bible; I have to give comments to the scriptures I give, to show my points.
This is what I wrote..

"The Bible contains statements against the Trinity, like this 3-in-1 verse against the Trinity..

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

1. Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
2. Jesus cannot be the only true God that sent, because Jesus said he did not send himself! John 7:28-29; 8:42.
3. Jesus said this is what eternal life looks like for all of eternity, knowing only two, the Father and the Son, just the two persons!
Three witnesses in one verse against the Trinity! In the most important prayer, which actually happens to include the first most important commandment of all Mark 12:28.

And you cannot fit a 3-in-1 God into that confession of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is what the Lord said, not someone who wrote something after the time of the disciple John, who wrote, "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour." - 1 Jn. 2:18, and Jn. 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

The Bible is extremely clear that God is not a Trinity, even specifically (the number and the name Trinity, the 3-in-1 God, is in the Bible). The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person! That is our foundation, clearly spoken, in the New Testament!

And to continue to state "The Trinity is a fact supported by the entire New Testament." is willful blindness, raising one to arrogant status, which as Christians we want to put away. Sure, one may fool many who are worldly, but worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan!"

That's right "if it contradicts the Bible", and so, seeing as you have not addressed my points, I understand that as, you could not find any contradictions, for you produced no scripture for one who "only comment on the Bible."

As I said before, I only comment on Bible verses. The following is just your rant which I don't think is part of the Bible, at least not in my Bible:

The Bible is extremely clear that God is not a Trinity, even specifically (the number and the name Trinity, the 3-in-1 God, is in the Bible). The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person! That is our foundation, clearly spoken, in the New Testament!

And to continue to state "The Trinity is a fact supported by the entire New Testament." is willful blindness, raising one to arrogant status, which as Christians we want to put away. Sure, one may fool many who are worldly, but worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan!

 

[civic]

You are ignoring context. Jesus is attacking polytheists with their multiple gods. Trinitarians are not polytheists so your attack falters.

Again, we are not polytheists. Trinitarians believe in one God.
Also, the term "God" refers to His essence, not His Person. His Personhood has a name which is "I Am". In other words, you're mixing up essence/nature with Personhood.

Quote Matt 12:28 and you'll see how Trinitarian it is.

I only comment on the Bible. Your rant has no support if it contradicts the Bible.

ditto

 

[7xLightray]

Well, if the link I gave you proves that Jesus is not God. Then he could have only existed in the mind of God before he was born as God's plan.

All I was asking was do you have a verse, or passage to back up this claim.. "..he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man.." I take it that you do not have a verse, or passage?

But as to this comment.. "Then he could have only existed in the mind of God before he was born as God's plan." well, there is another way which there is scripture for in Isa 55:10-11 "..So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth.."

It's said we are seated in the heavens before the world began. That can only mean we existed in the mind of God before we were born. There's no reason why we should have lived before we were born. Same with Jesus.

I understand what you are trying to say, but Jesus (not the person, but His flesh was the word, that became His flesh/body (Jn 6:51 and 1:14)) did exist before creation as God's spoken eternal living word. Jesus is this living word by which God created all things (Psalm 33:6 and Jn 1:3). And whatever is before creation is God, and God's word was before creation, as something that is real, not a plan in someone's head. Jesus existed in the form of God, but not as the only true God the Person, but as the spirit of God, which is God's image Isa. 40:18, 22; the word was God, and God is spirit.

Also there's no reason that God would want to be a man.

There is, but that may be for another thread. I'll say this though, Adam's flesh/body was made from powerless dirt/earth (no power to overcome anything), Jesus flesh/body is the word from heaven, and God's word does not fail Isa. 55:11.

 

[Peterlag]

All I was asking was do you have a verse, or passage to back up this claim.. "..he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man.." I take it that you do not have a verse, or passage?

But as to this comment.. "Then he could have only existed in the mind of God before he was born as God's plan." well, there is another way which there is scripture for in Isa 55:10-11 "..So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth.."

I understand what you are trying to say, but Jesus (not the person, but His flesh was the word, that became His flesh/body (Jn 6:51 and 1:14)) did exist before creation as God's spoken eternal living word. Jesus is this living word by which God created all things (Psalm 33:6 and Jn 1:3). And whatever is before creation is God, and God's word was before creation, as something that is real, not a plan in someone's head. Jesus existed in the form of God, but not as the only true God the Person, but as the spirit of God, which is God's image Isa. 40:18, 22; the word was God, and God is spirit.


There is, but that may be for another thread. I'll say this though, Adam's flesh/body was made from powerless dirt/earth (no power to overcome anything), Jesus flesh/body is the word from heaven, and God's word does not fail Isa. 55:11.

You take it wrong. If Jesus did not exist until he was born. Then he could have only existed in the mind of God before he was born. Would you like a verse stating when he was born?

 

[7xLightray]

As I said before, I only comment on Bible verses. The following is just your rant which I don't think is part of the Bible, at least not in my Bible:

That makes no sense at all! In fact reads very manipulative. These are not Bible verses!? Jn. 17:3 is not a Bible verse!? Nor John 7:28-29; 8:42; Mark 12:28; Jn. 2:18; Jn. 12:31; "Let Us make,"; "worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan"!? We can talk again when you are more coherent.

 

[7xLightray]

ditto

The Bible contains statements against the Trinity, like this 3-in-1 verse against the Trinity..

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

1. Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
2. Jesus cannot be the only true God that sent, because Jesus said he did not send himself! John 7:28-29; 8:42.
3. Jesus said this is what eternal life looks like for all of eternity, knowing only two, the Father and the Son, just the two persons!
Three witnesses in one verse against the Trinity! In the most important prayer, which actually happens to include the first most important commandment of all Mark 12:28.

And you cannot fit a 3-in-1 God into that confession of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is what the Lord said, not someone who wrote something after the time of the disciple John, who wrote, "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour." - 1 Jn. 2:18, and Jn. 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

The Bible is extremely clear that God is not a Trinity, even specifically (the number and the name Trinity, the 3-in-1 God, is in the Bible). The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person! That is our foundation, clearly spoken, in the New Testament!

 

[7xLightray]

You take it wrong. If Jesus did not exist until he was born. Then he could have only existed in the mind of God before he was born. Would you like a verse stating when he was born?

I don't think so.
No, but I would like a verse that states Jesus (not referring to the person though) did not exist before he was born. Jn 6:51 teaches the bread/word that came down from heaven is His flesh/body. And that is when Jesus became a person.

 

[synergy]

That makes no sense at all! In fact reads very manipulative. These are not Bible verses!? Jn. 17:3 is not a Bible verse!? Nor John 7:28-29; 8:42; Mark 12:28; Jn. 2:18; Jn. 12:31; "Let Us make,"; "worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan"!? We can talk again when you are more coherent.

I already commented on Matthew 12:28; John 8:42; John 7:28-29.

As for your rant below, I already told you that I only comment on Bible verses.

The Bible is extremely clear that God is not a Trinity, even specifically (the number and the name Trinity, the 3-in-1 God, is in the Bible). The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person! That is our foundation, clearly spoken, in the New Testament!

And to continue to state "The Trinity is a fact supported by the entire New Testament." is willful blindness, raising one to arrogant status, which as Christians we want to put away. Sure, one may fool many who are worldly, but worshipping the Trinity is worshipping Satan!

 

[7xLightray]

I already commented on Matthew 12:28; John 8:42; John 7:28-29.

As for your rant below, I already told you that I only comment on Bible verses.

But Jn. 17:3 was the main verse! And this was one of the main points, which was not addressed, "The Bible states clearly that God is a Single Personal Pronoun, one single Person. So, whenever we read things like "Let Us make," or the plurality of God, it obviously must mean something other than another Person, because there is only one true single He God Person!"