Why The Trinity is Wrong: Pronouns

Wrangler

Well-known member
The Creator of the universe is referred throughout Scripture over 5,000 times using singular pronouns, e.g., he, him, me, I. Trinitarians suppose all this should be subordinated to a verse or 2 where who God is talking to is ambiguous. For God so loved that world that he (singular) gave his (singular) only son.

A synonym for God is "father," such as Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. "Father" is a relational word that refers to a single individual and not a plurality. Although not a pronoun, "father" serves as a substitute for a singular being. Whereas there is a verse or 2 where God uses plural pronouns, there is not one single verse where God is referred to as the parents of Jesus. Yet, this has no significance for trinitarian dogma.
 
Normally, when Elohim is used of the one true God, the verb with it is singular. This goes contrary to normal Hebrew grammar because in Hebrew grammar the verb must agree with the noun in gender and number. Normally, one would expect that with Elohim, a plural noun, the plural verb would be used, which is true when it is used of false gods. Most of the time whenever the word Elohim is used of the true God, the verb used with it is in the singular number to prove that there is only one true God. But there are exceptions and these exceptions again open the door for the possibility of plurality in the Godhead.

For example, Genesis 20:13a reads:

Genesis 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander ...

The Hebrew word that is translated "caused me to wander" is plural. Literally it reads, "And it came to pass, when They (in reference to God) caused me to wander..."

Another example is Genesis 35:7:

Genesis 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him...

Here again, "appeared unto him" in Hebrew is a plural form which literally reads, "for there God appeared Themselves."

A third example being 2 Samuel 7:23:

2 Samuel 7:23 ... whom God went ...

Again, the Hebrew word for 'went' is plural, and literally reads, "...whom God They went..."

A fourth example is Psalms 58:11:

Psalms 58:11b "... verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth."

Again, the term "that judgeth" is a plural verb in Hebrew and literally it reads, "he is a God They judge."

Joshua 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

A jealous God - In the Hebrew, He is the holy Gods, holy Father, holy Son, holy Spirit. He will not endure a partner in his worship; you can not serve him and idols together. (Wesley)

"In the English translations, plural adjectives appear as nouns, but in the Hebrew text, these words are Hebrew adjectives. The adjective "holy" is a plural form which literally reads in the Hebrew "holy Gods""

Psalms 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in (his maker): let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

"The adjective that is translated as "maker" is in Hebrew a plural so literally reads, "Let Israel rejoice in his Makers"

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

"Again, the word "Creator" in Hebrew is a plural adjective and literally reads, "Remember now thy Creators..."

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

"(This verse) has two examples. In English the verse reads, "thy Maker, thine husband". But both the term "Maker" and "husband" are in the Hebrew text plurals and literally read, "For thy Makers, thy Husbands" in reference to God.

This too emphasizes the concept of a plurality (within God)"

**The majority of the information above comes from 'Ariel Ministries', Manuscript # 50 entitled "The Trinity" by Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish Hebrew scholar, - see http://www.ariel.org/amds.htm to read more of his works**

hope this helps !!!
 
The Creator of the universe is referred throughout Scripture over 5,000 times using singular pronouns, e.g., he, him, me, I. Trinitarians suppose all this should be subordinated to a verse or 2 where who God is talking to is ambiguous. For God so loved that world that he (singular) gave his (singular) only son.

A synonym for God is "father," such as Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. "Father" is a relational word that refers to a single individual and not a plurality. Although not a pronoun, "father" serves as a substitute for a singular being. Whereas there is a verse or 2 where God uses plural pronouns, there is not one single verse where God is referred to as the parents of Jesus. Yet, this has no significance for trinitarian dogma.

Singular references can be part of a plural construct..... Plural references can be part of a singular construct.

You shouldn't get so "caught up" in human grammar.
 
If we find instances of a plural corporate singular pronoun, the whole argument falls apart.

I don't find it particularly convincing.

God refers to the singular "Jacob" and "Israel" to mean all of the Jewish people.

There is no rule in the Bible or logic, that the word "God" must necessarily correlate in meaning to "Person," such that one God equals one Person, by definition—it just does not follow.
 
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

Genesis 11:7
Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.

Isaiah 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
 
Singular references can be part of a plural construct..... Plural references can be part of a singular construct.

You shouldn't get so "caught up" in human grammar.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Human grammar can only be used to support the trinity?

However, I'm addressing the claim that one use of plural pronouns supercedes 1,000's of singular use pronoun implications. And "plural" pronouns do not suggest 3. Grammar.
 
There is no rule in the Bible or logic, that the word "God" must necessarily correlate in meaning to "Person," such that one God equals one Person, by definition—it just does not follow.
Sure there is. God tells us over and over again he is the only God; besides him (singular) there is no other.

Also, God is known as the Supreme Being. Only trinitarians invent a parsing between Being and person.
 
Sure there is. God tells us over and over again he is the only God; besides him (singular) there is no other.

This is what they call "circular logic."


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Also, God is known as the Supreme Being. Only trinitarians invent a parsing between Being and person.

Well, if the Holy Spirit can live in you, or demons can possess a human, you have multiple persons in one being.

You are simply incorrect.
 
Well, if the Holy Spirit can live in you, or demons can possess a human, you have multiple persons in one being.
No. A person is also called a human being; they are synonyms. You cannot even admit that Jesus' God is one - even though monotheism is the central tenent of Judaism.
 
The Creator of the universe is referred throughout Scripture over 5,000 times using singular pronouns, e.g., he, him, me, I. Trinitarians suppose all this should be subordinated to a verse or 2 where who God is talking to is ambiguous. For God so loved that world that he (singular) gave his (singular) only son.

A synonym for God is "father," such as Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. "Father" is a relational word that refers to a single individual and not a plurality. Although not a pronoun, "father" serves as a substitute for a singular being. Whereas there is a verse or 2 where God uses plural pronouns, there is not one single verse where God is referred to as the parents of Jesus. Yet, this has no significance for trinitarian dogma.



His spirit and Christ are attributes of Him, His hands.......
 
No. A person is also called a human being; they are synonyms. You cannot even admit that Jesus' God is one - even though monotheism is the central tenent of Judaism.

His is ONE GOD.

NOT ONE PERSON.

GOD IS NOT PERSON.

You showed me a verse that says "GOD IS ONE GOD."

That is CIRCULAR.

It does not illustrate or prove how God is defined.
 
His spirit and Christ are attributes of Him, His hands.......
No ma'am. Language is not used to refer to one's attribute as Son. A son is a created being or person, by definition.

Have you ever considered that God is Spirit and is holy and having 2 persons who are both spirits and holy serve no purpose. I mean, they call God the Father as a unique differentiator but Scripture tells us his Spirit is what led to Christ's incarnation. So, that makes the Holy Spirit the Father but not the Father in trinity land, right?
 
Obviously, that is what the trinitarians are desperate to assume. However, if you examine the text, you will find no evidence to support that assumption.

Oh really?!!!!

Who else's image are we made in to include in the OUR?

DON'T WORRY, I'LL WAIT FOR YOUR BIBLICAL ANSWER.
 
His is ONE GOD.

NOT ONE PERSON.

GOD IS NOT PERSON.

You showed me a verse that says "GOD IS ONE GOD."

That is CIRCULAR.

It does not illustrate or prove how God is defined.
It is not circular. You are pretending that "Being" is not synonymous with person.

Deut 6:4 Listen, Israel: Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God. (NOG)

YHWH is the only God. Not Jesus or any other person; only YHWH.
 
Oh really?!!!!

Who else's image are we made in to include in the OUR?

DON'T WORRY, I'LL WAIT FOR YOUR BIBLICAL ANSWER.
Your question has nothing to do with the point of who God is talking to in the verse in question. You cannot admit that claiming he is talking to himself an assumption, not supported by the text.
 
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