civic
Well-known member
ditto, I wonder if he would come here. I just reached out to him. I will let you know his response.
Last edited:
The Trinity and the Incarnation
- Thread starter Rory Wilson
- Start date
Note
John 1:1–3 (NIV) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
If @Runningman wants to make the antecedent the pronoun the nearest noun
In verse two - he would refer to God
and we would get the result God was with God in the beginning
Seeing as the Word was with God in verse one we would have another proof for the deity of Christ
however he or this one refers to the Word as does him in verse 3
MTMattie
Active member
They do not understand.
101G
Well-known member
the Lord Jesus is the CREATOR, so in that mikesw is correct. now the question is this, "Did the Christ pre-existed?" answer NO. but Jesus did. now this is what we should be discussing. was the Christ in the beginning.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
what 101G is say is this, the Christ did not pre-exist, but JESUS always existed. this is the Mystery of the "ECHAD" JESUS almighty is the equal share or the "Diversity", or the ECHAD od himself in flesh. and yes "Diversity" is in the bible....... "Offspring". supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." the term OFFSPRING in the Greek is,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
yes, there it is, "diversity" which is a KIN as in KINSMAN REDEEMER, for God came in flesh as a MAN.... hence the Son of David. and this is pre-recorded by the prophet Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
this verse is in reference the "CHRIST" that was to come. see . Isa 40:11 and Matt 26:31 as well as Mark 14:27. please note the term "My Fellow", it is the Hebrew term,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
There he is, definition #2. the kindred man or the KINSMAN REDEEMER just as the term "OFFSPRING" clearly.
and also NOTE the term "ANOTHER" in the above definition, it shows the NURMERICAL DIFFERENCE, of, of, of, of the same one person. the "First and Last", the "Alpha and Omega", the "beginning and End", the "LORD and THE Lord". the Father and the THE Son". my God this is too easy.
the same one person in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. just the term "beginning" in Genesis 1:1 clearly states. God is an ORDINAL "EQUAL SHARE" of himself in flesh as a man.
101G's source for the definitions given above is from the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments. all these finding can be reproduced.
101G.
I also think very highly of Sam Shamoun. What do you mean by "if he would come here"?
He does not want to underastand.
Ok that would be interesting as long as confined to trinity issues.
Why confined? I'm not Catholic as he is but I find him very solid in every way he preaches.
The trinity is his specialty. He is very good at it. His support for some other things I find problematic
I'll defer to @civc, whatever his plans are.
civic
Well-known member
Our forum and participate
That sounds great! Looking forward to it.
Runningman
Well-known member
Basic elementary level English. Do you know what pronoun-antecedent agreement is?
Runningman
Well-known member
Which verse says God is compound?
Runningman
Well-known member
I didn't change anything in the Bible. I quote directly from the translations. I even leave Jesus' pronouns uppercase even though they shouldn't be.
Runningman
Well-known member
John 1:1-3 is a Unitarian proof text. Since God is the Creator and the Word is not the Creator, then the Word is not the definitive God. This is actually written into the very Greek of John 1:1. The Word is simply god with The God. One is The God and the other is not The God.
See why The God is doing the creating in John 1:2,3 now?
Read an English-Greek parallel of John 1:1:
| Strong's | Greek | English | Morphology |
| 1722 [e] | Ἐν En | In [the] | Prep |
| 746 [e] | ἀρχῇ archē | beginning | N-DFS |
| 1510 [e] | ἦν ēn | was | V-IIA-3S |
| 3588 [e] | ὁ ho | the | Art-NMS |
| 3056 [e] | Λόγος, Logos | Word, | N-NMS |
| 2532 [e] | καὶ kai | and | Conj |
| 3588 [e] | ὁ ho | the | Art-NMS |
| 3056 [e] | Λόγος Logos | Word | N-NMS |
| 1510 [e] | ἦν ēn | was | V-IIA-3S |
| 4314 [e] | πρὸς pros | with | Prep |
| 3588 [e] | τὸν ton | the | Art-AMS |
| 2316 [e] | Θεόν, Theon | God, | N-AMS |
| 2532 [e] | καὶ kai | and | Conj |
| 2316 [e] | Θεὸς Theos | God | N-NMS |
| 1510 [e] | ἦν ēn | was | V-IIA-3S |
| 3588 [e] | ὁ ho | the | Art-NMS |
| 3056 [e] | Λόγος. Logos | Word. | N-NMS |
Runningman
Well-known member
Which verse says Jesus is the Creator?
Fool4Christ
Active member
God created “all things” through Jesus Christ. The plain teaching of Scripture, therefore, is that Jesus is the Creator of the universe.
For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16
Actually, "the Word was God" is unitarian Burial text.
Huh? "The Word was God" proves that the Word, as God, is Creator.
You need a stronger pair of glasses to see what's really there.
The "Him" and "He" Pronouns, pointing to Him who created everything in John 1:2-3, all point to ὁ Λόγος.
Keep those Trinitarian Verses Coming!
