Why do Calvinists deny there is the gospel of grace ?

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, I understand. Now that you've been caught contradicting yourself, you came up with an excuse. And you still haven't dealt with my point. I'm done. I won't put you on ignore this time, but there's no point in discussing anything with you.

I have more than dealt with your point. There is context to the statement. You are trying to focus upon a couple of words in a verse of Scripture while ignore the correlry of other words in the same verse. This is a common fallacy in debate.

Denying the correlative

I'm not lying about my statements relative your claims to the contrary.

 

[brightfame52]

The Gospel of Gods Grace,

Paul did preach the Gospel of Gods Grace, yet most dont understand it or believe it, Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Notice that Paul joins the Gospel of the Grace of God with declaring all the counsel /purpose of God.

Same word Paul used in Eph 1:11

n whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will

Paul declares that Grace reigns in Salvation through Jesus Christ Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

And this is the Gospel of Gods Grace, that it reigns Sovereignly in and through the Lord Jesus Christ,

It reigns in Election, for Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Grace in Election was given to the election of Grace and Purpose in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Notice Vs 8 this is the Testimony of the Gospel according to the power of God, that Paul preached.

 

[Aeliana]

The Gospel of Gods Grace,

Paul did preach the Gospel of Gods Grace, yet most dont understand it or believe it, Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Notice that Paul joins the Gospel of the Grace of God with declaring all the counsel /purpose of God.

Same word Paul used in Eph 1:11

n whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will

Paul declares that Grace reigns in Salvation through Jesus Christ Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

And this is the Gospel of Gods Grace, that it reigns Sovereignly in and through the Lord Jesus Christ,

It reigns in Election, for Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Grace in Election was given to the election of Grace and Purpose in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Notice Vs 8 this is the Testimony of the Gospel according to the power of God, that Paul preached.

What does Acts 20:24-27 mean?​

In Miletus, Paul is speaking with the elders of the Ephesian church. He has already told them that the Holy Spirit compels him to return to Jerusalem even though persecution awaits him there. Here, he explains why he is so willing to obey.

Paul doesn't know what will happen in Jerusalem other than imprisonment. In the past, however, he did not turn away from conflict if he thought it would serve Jesus' purposes—in Ephesus, he tried to preach the gospel to a mob that had formed in opposition to his work and taken two of his companions (Acts 19:30). In Jerusalem, he will try to share his faith in Jesus, both with the mob that attacks him and with the Sanhedrin (Acts 21:37—22:21). Later, he will boldly tell his story to Herod Agrippa II and Bernice (Acts 26:1–32).

Paul also explains his dedication in his letters. He believes his discipline will result in a lasting reward—the salvation of others (1 Corinthians 9:22–27). He knows his life is fragile, and he's already been stoned once (Acts 14:19), but he dedicates that fragility to show others Jesus (2 Corinthians 4:7–12). Later, he will tell Timothy he is a drink offering, poured out for others (2 Timothy 4:6).

The ministry Jesus gave Paul is to bring Jesus' offering of forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with God to the Gentiles, to kings and rulers, and to the Jews (Acts 9:15). This is the gospel—the "good news"—of the grace that God offers sinners: that Jesus came, took accountability for our sins, died in our place, and rose glorified so that we, too, may be resurrected, glorified, and cleansed of our sins. To Paul, his life is nothing compared to the mission of sharing this message. BibleRef.

 

[brightfame52]

What does Acts 20:24 mean?​

In Miletus, Paul is speaking with the elders of the Ephesian church. He has already told them that the Holy Spirit compels him to return to Jerusalem even though persecution awaits him there. Here, he explains why he is so willing to obey.

Paul doesn't know what will happen in Jerusalem other than imprisonment. In the past, however, he did not turn away from conflict if he thought it would serve Jesus' purposes—in Ephesus, he tried to preach the gospel to a mob that had formed in opposition to his work and taken two of his companions (Acts 19:30). In Jerusalem, he will try to share his faith in Jesus, both with the mob that attacks him and with the Sanhedrin (Acts 21:37—22:21). Later, he will boldly tell his story to Herod Agrippa II and Bernice (Acts 26:1–32).

Paul also explains his dedication in his letters. He believes his discipline will result in a lasting reward—the salvation of others (1 Corinthians 9:22–27). He knows his life is fragile, and he's already been stoned once (Acts 14:19), but he dedicates that fragility to show others Jesus (2 Corinthians 4:7–12). Later, he will tell Timothy he is a drink offering, poured out for others (2 Timothy 4:6).

The ministry Jesus gave Paul is to bring Jesus' offering of forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with God to the Gentiles, to kings and rulers, and to the Jews (Acts 9:15). This is the gospel—the "good news"—of the grace that God offers sinners: that Jesus came, took accountability for our sins, died in our place, and rose glorified so that we, too, may be resurrected, glorified, and cleansed of our sins. To Paul, his life is nothing compared to the mission of sharing this message. BibleRef.

Post 142, do you understand what Im saying ?

 

[Aeliana]

Here's the really interesting part of Acts 20:24

In Acts 20:17–27, Paul begins his farewell to the elders of Ephesus. He and his team leave Troas and sail to Miletus, south of Ephesus, where Paul requests the Ephesian elders meet him. He reminds them how he served with dedication and self-sacrifice, and he also relays disturbing news. When he gets to Jerusalem, he will be imprisoned, and they will never see him again. Next, he will challenge them to protect their church from false teachers and to emulate his humble leadership (Acts 20:28–35).

False teachers like John Calvin you got to watch out for them.

Post 142, do you understand what Im saying ?

You're Trying to make a case for Calvinism and election and your false notion that Calvinism is the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

Here's the really interesting part of Acts 20:24

In Acts 20:17–27, Paul begins his farewell to the elders of Ephesus. He and his team leave Troas and sail to Miletus, south of Ephesus, where Paul requests the Ephesian elders meet him. He reminds them how he served with dedication and self-sacrifice, and he also relays disturbing news. When he gets to Jerusalem, he will be imprisoned, and they will never see him again. Next, he will challenge them to protect their church from false teachers and to emulate his humble leadership (Acts 20:28–35).

False teachers like John Calvin you got to watch out for them.

You're Trying to make a case for Calvinism and election and your false notion that Calvinism is the gospel.

Its a case for the Gospel of Gods Grace, do you understand the points ? Whats said about Grace ?Whats stated about Grace here by Paul Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Aeliana]

What is God's grace​

God’s grace is a fundamental concept in Christianity, referring to the unmerited favor and benevolence of God towards humanity. It is a gift that is freely given, without expectation of reciprocation or deservingness. In the New Testament, the Greek word “charis” is often translated as “grace,” conveying the idea of favor, blessing, or kindness.
Characteristics of God’s Grace

• Unmerited favor: God’s grace is not earned or deserved; it is a gift that is freely given, regardless of our worthiness.
• Benevolence: God’s grace is an expression of His love and kindness towards us, demonstrating His willingness to forgive and bless us despite our sin.
• Unconditional: God’s grace is not dependent on our performance or behavior; it is a gift that is given regardless of our actions.

Aspects of God’s Grace

• Salvation: God’s grace is often associated with salvation, as it is through His grace that we are saved from our sins and receive eternal life.
• Forgiveness: God’s grace is also about forgiveness, as He chooses to forgive us of our sins and restore us to a right relationship with Him.
• Sustenance: God’s grace extends beyond salvation and forgiveness, as He meets our daily needs and provides for us in various ways.

Examples of God’s Grace

• Forgiving others: God’s grace is demonstrated when we extend forgiveness to others, just as He has forgiven us.
• Meeting our needs: God’s grace is seen when He meets our physical, emotional, and spiritual needs, often through the kindness of others.
• Redemption: God’s grace is exemplified in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who took our place and bore the punishment for our sins, demonstrating God’s love and desire to reconcile us to Himself.

In summary, God’s grace is a multifaceted concept that encompasses His unmerited favor, benevolence, and love towards humanity. It is a gift that is freely given, without expectation of reciprocation or deservingness, and is demonstrated in various ways throughout our lives.
AI Generated

 

[civic]

What is God's grace​

God’s grace is a fundamental concept in Christianity, referring to the unmerited favor and benevolence of God towards humanity. It is a gift that is freely given, without expectation of reciprocation or deservingness. In the New Testament, the Greek word “charis” is often translated as “grace,” conveying the idea of favor, blessing, or kindness.
Characteristics of God’s Grace

• Unmerited favor: God’s grace is not earned or deserved; it is a gift that is freely given, regardless of our worthiness.
• Benevolence: God’s grace is an expression of His love and kindness towards us, demonstrating His willingness to forgive and bless us despite our sin.
• Unconditional: God’s grace is not dependent on our performance or behavior; it is a gift that is given regardless of our actions.

Aspects of God’s Grace

• Salvation: God’s grace is often associated with salvation, as it is through His grace that we are saved from our sins and receive eternal life.
• Forgiveness: God’s grace is also about forgiveness, as He chooses to forgive us of our sins and restore us to a right relationship with Him.
• Sustenance: God’s grace extends beyond salvation and forgiveness, as He meets our daily needs and provides for us in various ways.

Examples of God’s Grace

• Forgiving others: God’s grace is demonstrated when we extend forgiveness to others, just as He has forgiven us.
• Meeting our needs: God’s grace is seen when He meets our physical, emotional, and spiritual needs, often through the kindness of others.
• Redemption: God’s grace is exemplified in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who took our place and bore the punishment for our sins, demonstrating God’s love and desire to reconcile us to Himself.

In summary, God’s grace is a multifaceted concept that encompasses His unmerited favor, benevolence, and love towards humanity. It is a gift that is freely given, without expectation of reciprocation or deservingness, and is demonstrated in various ways throughout our lives.
AI Generated

Amen

 

[brightfame52]

In the Gospel of Gods Grace Grace reigns not only in Election, but also in Redemption, It brought Jesus Christ into the world to redeem the elect and Justified them Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[brightfame52]

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10


And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This is that Paul refers to in Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[civic]

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10


And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This is that Paul refers to in Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

yes you deny the OP and the gospel of grace- its the grace of God and the means to salvation.

 

[civic]

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10


And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This is that Paul refers to in Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

More calvinistic false claims.

It’s not by tulip , especially the I in the fatalistic flower.

Irresistible Grace.

John Piper
“Irresistible grace refers to the sovereign work of God to overcome the rebellion of our heart and bring us to faith in Christ so that we can be saved.” Furthermore, “The doctrine of irresistible grace means that God is sovereign and can conquer all resistance when he wills.” In other words, “It means that the Holy Spirit, whenever he chooses, can overcome all resistance and make his influence irresistible.”

The question is this- is the above statement a universal truth found in Scripture or is it a doctrinal assumption in a systematic theology ?

Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

Barnes:
the triumphant King and Lord of Zion wept! Amid all "his" prosperity, and all the acclamations of the multitude, the heart of the Redeemer of the world was turned from the tokens of rejoicing to the miseries about to come on a guilty people. Yet they "might" have been saved.

conclusion: Those whom He came to seek and save ( the lost ) rejected Him.

2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.

People sin: Which separated all from fellowship with God.
Responsible: Able-to-respond to God’s appeals for reconciliation.
Open door: For anyone to enter by faith. Whosoever will may come to His open arms.
Vicarious atonement: Provides a way for anyone to be saved by Christ’s blood.
Illuminating grace: Provides clearly revealed truth so that all can know and respond in faith.
Destroyed: For unbelief and resisting the Holy Spirit.
Eternal security: For all true believers.

Gods teaching His Grace is resisted which refutes the " I " in tulip

My top 20 reasons against grace being irresistible

1-Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

2-Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

3-Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

4-Galatians 5:4-7
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

5-Hebrews 12:14-15
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

6-2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

7-Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

8-Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

9-Genesis 6:3: And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

10-2 Chronicles 36:15-16: And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

11-Proverbs 29:1: He who is often rebuked, and hardens his neck, Will suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

12-Isaiah 30:15 “For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: ‘In returning and rest you shall be saved; In quiteness and confidence shall be your strength.’ But you would not.”

13-Isaiah 65:2“I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts.”

14-Jeremiah 35:15 “I have also sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, ‘Turn now everyone from his evil way, amend your doings, and do not go after other gods to serve them; then you will dwell in the land which I have given to you and your fathers.’ But you have not inclined your ear, nor obeyed Me.”

15-Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

16-Acts 13:46: Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.”

17-Romans 10:21: But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.”

18- Matthew 23:37: Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.”

19- Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

20- Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert.

Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)

Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.

Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him

In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand.

In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

conclusion: You see the doctrine of irresistible grace is unfounded and there are many unproven presuppositions built into Gods Sovereignty and mans condition and free will to choose or reject God. God does not force Himself on anyone for that by definition would be unloving, just as it would be for you or I to force another person to love you.

hope this helps !!

 

[brightfame52]

yes you deny the OP and the gospel of grace- its the grace of God and the means to salvation.

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10


And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This is that Paul refers to in Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[civic]

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10


And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This is that Paul refers to in Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

More calvinistic false claims.

It’s not by tulip , especially the I in the fatalistic flower.

Irresistible Grace.

John Piper
“Irresistible grace refers to the sovereign work of God to overcome the rebellion of our heart and bring us to faith in Christ so that we can be saved.” Furthermore, “The doctrine of irresistible grace means that God is sovereign and can conquer all resistance when he wills.” In other words, “It means that the Holy Spirit, whenever he chooses, can overcome all resistance and make his influence irresistible.”

The question is this- is the above statement a universal truth found in Scripture or is it a doctrinal assumption in a systematic theology ?

Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

Barnes:
the triumphant King and Lord of Zion wept! Amid all "his" prosperity, and all the acclamations of the multitude, the heart of the Redeemer of the world was turned from the tokens of rejoicing to the miseries about to come on a guilty people. Yet they "might" have been saved.

conclusion: Those whom He came to seek and save ( the lost ) rejected Him.

2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.

People sin: Which separated all from fellowship with God.
Responsible: Able-to-respond to God’s appeals for reconciliation.
Open door: For anyone to enter by faith. Whosoever will may come to His open arms.
Vicarious atonement: Provides a way for anyone to be saved by Christ’s blood.
Illuminating grace: Provides clearly revealed truth so that all can know and respond in faith.
Destroyed: For unbelief and resisting the Holy Spirit.
Eternal security: For all true believers.

Gods teaching His Grace is resisted which refutes the " I " in tulip

My top 20 reasons against grace being irresistible

1-Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

2-Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

3-Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

4-Galatians 5:4-7
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

5-Hebrews 12:14-15
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

6-2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

7-Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

8-Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

9-Genesis 6:3: And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

10-2 Chronicles 36:15-16: And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

11-Proverbs 29:1: He who is often rebuked, and hardens his neck, Will suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

12-Isaiah 30:15 “For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: ‘In returning and rest you shall be saved; In quiteness and confidence shall be your strength.’ But you would not.”

13-Isaiah 65:2“I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts.”

14-Jeremiah 35:15 “I have also sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, ‘Turn now everyone from his evil way, amend your doings, and do not go after other gods to serve them; then you will dwell in the land which I have given to you and your fathers.’ But you have not inclined your ear, nor obeyed Me.”

15-Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

16-Acts 13:46: Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.”

17-Romans 10:21: But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.”

18- Matthew 23:37: Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.”

19- Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

20- Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert.

Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)

Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.

Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him

In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand.

In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

conclusion: You see the doctrine of irresistible grace is unfounded and there are many unproven presuppositions built into Gods Sovereignty and mans condition and free will to choose or reject God. God does not force Himself on anyone for that by definition would be unloving, just as it would be for you or I to force another person to love you.

hope this helps !!

 

[brightfame52]

More calvinistic false claims.

It’s not by tulip , especially the I in the fatalistic flower.

Irresistible Grace.

John Piper
“Irresistible grace refers to the sovereign work of God to overcome the rebellion of our heart and bring us to faith in Christ so that we can be saved.” Furthermore, “The doctrine of irresistible grace means that God is sovereign and can conquer all resistance when he wills.” In other words, “It means that the Holy Spirit, whenever he chooses, can overcome all resistance and make his influence irresistible.”

The question is this- is the above statement a universal truth found in Scripture or is it a doctrinal assumption in a systematic theology ?

Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

Barnes:
the triumphant King and Lord of Zion wept! Amid all "his" prosperity, and all the acclamations of the multitude, the heart of the Redeemer of the world was turned from the tokens of rejoicing to the miseries about to come on a guilty people. Yet they "might" have been saved.

conclusion: Those whom He came to seek and save ( the lost ) rejected Him.

2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.

People sin: Which separated all from fellowship with God.
Responsible: Able-to-respond to God’s appeals for reconciliation.
Open door: For anyone to enter by faith. Whosoever will may come to His open arms.
Vicarious atonement: Provides a way for anyone to be saved by Christ’s blood.
Illuminating grace: Provides clearly revealed truth so that all can know and respond in faith.
Destroyed: For unbelief and resisting the Holy Spirit.
Eternal security: For all true believers.

Gods teaching His Grace is resisted which refutes the " I " in tulip

My top 20 reasons against grace being irresistible

1-Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

2-Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

3-Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

4-Galatians 5:4-7
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

5-Hebrews 12:14-15
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

6-2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

7-Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

8-Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

9-Genesis 6:3: And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

10-2 Chronicles 36:15-16: And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

11-Proverbs 29:1: He who is often rebuked, and hardens his neck, Will suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

12-Isaiah 30:15 “For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: ‘In returning and rest you shall be saved; In quiteness and confidence shall be your strength.’ But you would not.”

13-Isaiah 65:2“I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts.”

14-Jeremiah 35:15 “I have also sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, ‘Turn now everyone from his evil way, amend your doings, and do not go after other gods to serve them; then you will dwell in the land which I have given to you and your fathers.’ But you have not inclined your ear, nor obeyed Me.”

15-Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

16-Acts 13:46: Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.”

17-Romans 10:21: But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.”

18- Matthew 23:37: Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.”

19- Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

20- Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert.

Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)

Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.

Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him

In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand.

In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

conclusion: You see the doctrine of irresistible grace is unfounded and there are many unproven presuppositions built into Gods Sovereignty and mans condition and free will to choose or reject God. God does not force Himself on anyone for that by definition would be unloving, just as it would be for you or I to force another person to love you.

hope this helps !!

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10

And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[TomL]

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10

And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Um you twist Zech 12:10

Zechariah 12:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, The spirit of grace and of supplications: And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, And they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, And shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

adding words

 

[brightfame52]

Um you twist Zech 12:10

Zechariah 12:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, The spirit of grace and of supplications: And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, And they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, And shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

adding words

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10

And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[TomL]

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10

And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

There is nothing about unconditional election or regeneration in Zech 12:10

 

[brightfame52]

There is nothing about unconditional election or regeneration in Zech 12:10

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10

And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Also its particular Grace its promised only to the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, thats the Election of Grace

 

[TomL]

Grace reigns in regeneration, that is in the giving of life, Spiritual life in and by the Holy Spirit,giving life to every elect vessel of mercy, the Father has chosen, the Son has redeemed, regenerating grace will cause the elect to look to Christ Zech 12:10

And I will pour[shed] upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Also its particular Grace its promised only to the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, thats the Election of Grace

You failed to show anything different

There is nothing about unconditional election or regeneration in Zech 12:10