The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Amen. Nobody deserves anything from God. To God alone be the glory.
Why do Calvinists deny there is the gospel of grace ?
- Thread starter civic
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civic
Well-known member
For sin and evil too right
Not unconditional election or grace apart from the centrality of Christ
Ephesians 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes especially unconditional election
civic
Well-known member
No such animal, it’s conditional
IF election was a PROMISE by GOD to every person created in HIS image to save every person who put their faith in HIM as their GOD and Saviour (the condition) and not just an arbitrary 'save this one, not that one' (unconditional) choice by GOD, then HE is in fact duty bound to fulfill that promise. And what is wrong with that?
And if HE has promised to condemn to the outer darkness everyone who denied faith in HIM as GOD and Saviour then HIS holy Church has the right to expect that judgment to be fulfilled and not postponed forever.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace reigns through Righteousness !
Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Now through who or what righteousness does grace reign ? Its through the righteousness of the One Jesus Christ as stated in Vs 18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one[Jesus Christ the Righteous] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
This is a Suretyship Righteousness for all whom He represented, consisting of preceptive law obedience, a perfect obedience unto God which His Law demands Matt 5:48, which cannot and does not offend in any one point James 2:10
Also it is a Suretyship righteousness that has satisfied the Justice of God in undergoing the penalty of sin, for what was due for all their sins Isa 53:5, the penalty was death !
Now because of this righteousness, Gods grace reigns unto eternal life ! It would be a travesty if anyone Christ represented in this Suretyship righteousness would die in their sins.
It would mean sin and death reigned over above Christs righteousness and grace !
brightfame52
Well-known member
On Gods Grace !
Sorry it is not found in scripture that men are unconditionally elected to salvation
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
That's not what God promises. Here is God's promise:
John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
There's no "if" in that promise.
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Grace does not mean unconditional election or regeneration apart from Christ
atpollard
Well-known member
A hypothetical christian stands on a soap box and preaches the “gospel” to two men.
One hearer falls to his knees weeping and is saved that very hour.
The other hearer curses at the speaker and walks away.
Both heard the same gospel … why does the power only save one?
(Why does only one believe?)
Rockson
Well-known member
Choosing to walk in humility before God or their choosing not to.
The Lord is near to them that are of a contrite heart; and will save the lowly in spirit. Ps 34:18
That's your answer but I think we've had this conversation before. You somehow conclude that's not good enough and tread out in an area of further speculation insisting A just can't be the concluding answer. The only reason you conclude this is that you want to ram in a conclusion that irresistible force Calvinism (which you call irresistible grace) had to be a part. It didn't. It's just something you're insisting upon not found in scripture. .
Rockson
Well-known member
Just today in my Bible reading I came across the following, Matt 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Here Jesus says he reveals himself to those who choose to be receptive to the word of God and act like children. Not one word there that he chose to reveal himself to the elect ) 26Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (now he reveals to whom he will reveal himself.....to anyone and to all who will come....It's an open invitation to ALL) 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Grace does not mean unconditional election or regeneration apart from Christ
Because he chose to. The choser is the reason for the choice
brightfame52
Well-known member
Grace reigning begins with Sovereign unconditional election of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Sorry Rom 11:5-6 does not teach unconditional election
Did you not read it?
Romans 11:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”
That is a condition
