The Power of the Gospel

[civic]

Do they do so by the Spirit? Also were talking about men, not demons. Category error.

nope facts on calling Jesus Lord.

next

 

[civic]

@Presby02 are you an old school rock and roll guy ? just curios what music you liked back in the day. Thanks

 

[Presby02]

nope facts on calling Jesus Lord.

next

Here is a fact for you. No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit

 

[civic]

Here is a fact for you. No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit

Yes indeed now reconcile the demons and unbelievers in hell that confess He is Lord.

 

[Presby02]

Yes indeed now reconcile the demons and unbelievers in hell that confess He is Lord.

One is obviously salvific and the other is simply a statement of fact.

 

[Presby02]

@Presby02 are you an old school rock and roll guy ? just curios what music you liked back in the day. Thanks

Not the topic of this thread.

 

[civic]

Not the topic of this thread.

another dodge

 

[Believe]

Here is a fact for you. No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit

How does this one fit in?

Matthew 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

In 1 Corinthians 12:3. There it says that “nobody can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except in the Holy Spirit.” And the phrase is Kurios, Iesus. Kurios is Lord. Iesus is Jesus. And my guess is that in the context of Corinth at that time, this phrase (as opposed to Kurios Kaiseros — Caesar is Lord) would have carried such radical danger. In other words, this is treason. This is treason. You are going to stand up and say in public, “Kurios Iesus,” and have every eye turn to you and say, “You are dead. You are going to get your head chopped off for talking like that.”

My guess is that this phrase carried in itself, in that context, such loaded dangers and risks that only the sincere would say it. So when Paul said, “Nobody can say it except by the Spirit,” he meant nobody can say it and really feel it, mean it, be willing to risk your life because of it.

Can I Confess the Name of Jesus and Be Unsaved?

If no one can say that Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit, then why are there people who say, “Lord, Lord,” whom Christ denies ever knowing?

www.desiringgod.org

 

[brightfame52]

So all your going on about his that or the other and think you're making an impressive case by quoting the Greek word katalambano can all just be set aside when one understands the governing principle by what it even means in your words above.

First there's a good consensus among many translators that the word comprehend wasn't the best way to go considering the passage. A great many translations put it as the darkness had not overcome it (the light) To me that seems the better way as one looks at the context of the passage.

New International Version
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

New Living Translation
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.

English Standard Version
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Berean Standard Bible
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Berean Literal Bible
And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Legacy Standard Bible
And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.

Christian Standard Bible
That light shines in the darkness, and yet the darkness did not overcome it.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
That light shines in the darkness, yet the darkness did not overcome it.

(Plus others as well)

But even going with comprehended it still doesn't prove a Calvinist argument when one considers one can't comprehend the light for they choose not to walk by faith. For ones choosing not to walk in faith in the LIGHT the gospel they'll assert is foolishness. And Jn 3 says why men stay in darkness. It didn't say because they didn't have a capacity to accept the light it said because they've chosen to stay in the love of their sin. John 3: 20 So below is what that verse states,

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Now notice what it doesn't say. It doesn't say the one doesn't come into the light for he doesn't have the capacity to or that he can't choose to. And he doesn't say he doesn't come into the light for he has this total depravity thing where there's no possibility he could. It simply says he won't come into the light lest his deeds should be reproved. In other words he's choosing not to accept that he needs change. No where there stated does it say he couldn't have.

As stated the subjective darkness of the unregenerate comprehends not the light of the Gospel, of spiritual truth

 

[brightfame52]

You failed to address this

You ignored this

faith in the gospel precedes regeneration

James 1:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The word of truth precedes regeneration

1 Peter 1:18–23 (KJV 1900) — 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Being born again by the gospel. Again the gospel precedes regeneration

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

born again through the gospel

The gospel - faith in it precedes regeneration

The gospel must be mixed with faith to benefit

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it

and 1Cor 2:14 refer to that which is hidden in the mind of God not the revealed gospel

The Gospel is the Power of God unto the regenerated elect, not to the unregenerate. Gospel Truth is light, objective light, and the Gospel truths of the person and Work of Christ are. Spiritual.

But now men who are unregenerate are in subjective darkness, and so we love darkness rather than light, the objective light of the Gospel. When this Gospel light shines in subjective darkness, the unregenerate heart, it comprehends it not [spiritually] Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The word comprehend is the word katalambanō :

to make one's own, to take into oneself, appropriate:

to lay hold of

1. to lay hold of so as to make one's own, to obtain, attain to, to make one's own, to take into one's self, appropriate
2. to seize upon, take possession of
3. to lay hold of with the mind
   
   
   1. to understand, perceive, learn, comprehend

This corresponds with Pauls teaching in 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

See by nature we are subjective darkness in our unregenerate state Eph 5:8

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

 

[Johann]

How does this one fit in?

Matthew 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

In 1 Corinthians 12:3. There it says that “nobody can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except in the Holy Spirit.” And the phrase is Kurios, Iesus. Kurios is Lord. Iesus is Jesus. And my guess is that in the context of Corinth at that time, this phrase (as opposed to Kurios Kaiseros — Caesar is Lord) would have carried such radical danger. In other words, this is treason. This is treason. You are going to stand up and say in public, “Kurios Iesus,” and have every eye turn to you and say, “You are dead. You are going to get your head chopped off for talking like that.”

My guess is that this phrase carried in itself, in that context, such loaded dangers and risks that only the sincere would say it. So when Paul said, “Nobody can say it except by the Spirit,” he meant nobody can say it and really feel it, mean it, be willing to risk your life because of it.

Can I Confess the Name of Jesus and Be Unsaved?

If no one can say that Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit, then why are there people who say, “Lord, Lord,” whom Christ denies ever knowing?

www.desiringgod.org

Looks like you have answered your question.

 

[civic]

How does this one fit in?

Matthew 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

In 1 Corinthians 12:3. There it says that “nobody can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except in the Holy Spirit.” And the phrase is Kurios, Iesus. Kurios is Lord. Iesus is Jesus. And my guess is that in the context of Corinth at that time, this phrase (as opposed to Kurios Kaiseros — Caesar is Lord) would have carried such radical danger. In other words, this is treason. This is treason. You are going to stand up and say in public, “Kurios Iesus,” and have every eye turn to you and say, “You are dead. You are going to get your head chopped off for talking like that.”

My guess is that this phrase carried in itself, in that context, such loaded dangers and risks that only the sincere would say it. So when Paul said, “Nobody can say it except by the Spirit,” he meant nobody can say it and really feel it, mean it, be willing to risk your life because of it.

Can I Confess the Name of Jesus and Be Unsaved?

If no one can say that Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit, then why are there people who say, “Lord, Lord,” whom Christ denies ever knowing?

www.desiringgod.org

It doesn’t fit his narrative

 

[civic]

Looks like you have answered your question.

Tell that to @Presby02

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The Gospel is not a magic incantation that produces a magical transformation in the person who hears it. That's not what "it is the power of God" means.

I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek.

In other words, the events described in the Gospel are the power, and they are applied to everyone who is believing (those who are saved). Just like in John 3:16, Romans 1:16 it is not an invitation. It is an identifying state of those who are saved.

 

[koberstein]

The resident Calvinists here dishonor God with their false claims concerning the Gospel.

The Gospel is Intrinsically POWERFUL.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Calvinism removes the power of the Gospel. The power of the Gospel is relative to the speaker, not the hearer.

1Co 14:9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

I'm a Calminian.

 

[civic]

The Gospel is not a magic incantation that produces a magical transformation in the person who hears it. That's not what "it is the power of God" means.

I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek.

In other words, the events described in the Gospel are the power, and they are applied to everyone who is believing (those who are saved). Just like in John 3:16, Romans 1:16 it is not an invitation. It is an identifying state of those who are saved.

Sorry read Jesus teaching on the parable of the sower. The seed gives life which is the gospel, the power of God in salvation

Next

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Sorry read Jesus teaching on the parable of the sower. The seed gives life which is the gospel, the power of God in salvation

Next

The parable of the sower isn't about the power of the Gospel, it is about the state of the soil. Only on good soil does it take root and produce good fruit. God makes the difference between good soil and bad soil.

 

[Johann]

Sorry read Jesus teaching on the parable of the sower. The seed gives life which is the gospel, the power of God in salvation

Next

Only ONE responded in a biblical manner-yielding fruit. I would reference this with the parable of the ten virgins.

 

[civic]

Only ONE responded in a biblical manner-yielding fruit. I would reference this with the parable of the ten virgins.

Nope they were all living- alive in the beginning read it again

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Nope they were all living- alive in the beginning read it again

Only the good soil produced one who is believing.