The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
You know as well as I do that the day God does this has not yet come.
Why do Calvinists deny there is the gospel of grace ?
- Thread starter civic
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You know as well as I do that the day God does this has not yet come.
Who says? Sounds like question begging
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So the day you references has already come?
The Gospel has been from the beginning.
I asked questions. Do you mind explaining?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Yes, I do. This has nothing to do with the points I was making.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The point I was making re: "Love requires the freedom to love in return"
This is the source of your folly - man-centered thinking. You are treating the God/man relationship like it's man-man or man-woman.
Deuteronomy 30:6
“Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
God does not say, "God will give you free will to love the Lord your God". God says, "God will CHANGE YOU to love the Lord your God".
This is the source of your folly - man-centered thinking. You are treating the God/man relationship like it's man-man or man-woman.
Deuteronomy 30:6
“Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
God does not say, "God will give you free will to love the Lord your God". God says, "God will CHANGE YOU to love the Lord your God".
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You do this many times when you get caught in a problematic statement you've made.
You simply claim "that has nothing to do with it" without explaining why it "has nothing to do with it".....
I thought you understood that you're talking about "descendents".... You quoted a verse about descendents.....
“Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
You applied this to hearing the Gospel.
Your claim doesn't fit what the verse says. Please explain.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So you only want to talk about what you want to talk about in the verse you posted?
I explained how this happens through the verses I referenced and your response was
"this day hasn't happened".....
civic
Well-known member
The ironyA question beggar complaining about "question begging". That's new.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
For the last time, the point is this: God does not say, "God will give you free will to love the Lord your God". God says, "God will CHANGE YOU to love the Lord your God".
Enough about descendants.
civic
Well-known member
Gods love is foreign to many and have not experienced in a personal way with God in a relationship. It’s only academic to many
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No. It is not enough about descendents. You posted the verse that talked about descendents and now you don't want to talk about it.
This is called CONTEXT.
civic
Well-known member
It’s called dodging the issue from their eisegesis it happens all of the time. When challenged then comes the diversion and our passages never get dealt with but avoided. It’s a double standard do what I say not as I do.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Derailing my point to talk about descendants was dodging the issue.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
If you explain why it doesn't include descendents, then I will listen. The statement included descendents. It is not an island unto itself relative to explaining love.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The point is this: God does not say, "God will give you free will to love the Lord your God". God says, "God will CHANGE YOU to love the Lord your God".
I did not apply this to hearing the Gospel.
The point has nothing to do with God doing this now, in the future, or to descendants.
Here God is saying he will change you to love the Lord your God. God does not say, "I will give you (or I gave you) free will to love the Lord your God".
If you can't address that, then I'm done with you.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I know YOU are not applying it relative to the Gospel. I never said you were. I was providing an alternative view relative to context of the statement found in the verse.
I believe you realize that it fits perfectly within the context of the statement made. In review....
“Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
As previously stated, we know that all of Abraham's descendents were not circumcised in heart. Thusly your application can not be true relative to the context of the statement.
However, it does fit perfectly within the statement of Paul that the righteousness of God is fulfilled from faith to faith through the Gospel.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
@The Rogue Tomato ...
For some reason I can't quote your response here https://berean-apologetics.communit...-there-is-the-gospel-of-grace.1721/post-82634
When I said that I know you were not applying it to the Gospel. I was attempting to state that you were not accurately applying it to the Gospel.
The OP demands you deal with the Gospel. What you've stated in this thread is about the Gospel. You were attempting to remove the context of the verse and the OP.
Do you understand now?
For some reason I can't quote your response here https://berean-apologetics.communit...-there-is-the-gospel-of-grace.1721/post-82634
When I said that I know you were not applying it to the Gospel. I was attempting to state that you were not accurately applying it to the Gospel.
The OP demands you deal with the Gospel. What you've stated in this thread is about the Gospel. You were attempting to remove the context of the verse and the OP.
Do you understand now?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Yes, I understand. Now that you've been caught contradicting yourself, you came up with an excuse. And you still haven't dealt with my point. I'm done. I won't put you on ignore this time, but there's no point in discussing anything with you.
