Why All Is Not Ordained

Presby02 said:
Still a strawman. No one says it's installed or infused.
Click to expand...
You are In denial

The Canons of Dort​


ARTICLE 14

Faith is therefore to be considered as the gift of God, not on account of its being offered by God to man, to be accepted or rejected at his pleasure, but because it is in reality conferred upon him, breathed and infused into him; nor even because God bestows the power or ability to believe, and then expects that man should by the exercise of his own free will consent to the terms of salvation and actually believe in Christ, but because He who works in man both to will and to work, and indeed all things in all, produces both the will to believe and the act of believing also.
 
TomL said:
You are in denial

Give in the sense of permitting or enabling, not in the sense of unilaterally causing, or infusing

God gave man the ability for faith and man exercises faith every day as he puts his faith in many different things

PS infuse accurately describes the calvinist view how faith is given

Faith: Is it a gift infused, a gift received, or a decision to believe?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJ)

There are several views of the role of faith in Ephesians Chapter 2 verses 8-9. It might be helpful to examine briefly these views. These two verses are acknowledged to be scripture by those who accept the New Testament. The different concepts of the role of faith come from trying to understand what these two verses mean. There are, at least, three basic views regarding the role of faith in these two verses.

In brief, the views are as follows.

1. Faith as an infused gift of God. Faith is believed to be infused into the person who is dead-like. While dead, they become gifted with saving faith. In this sense, faith is an infused gift from God. This view holds that no one is saved unless God imparted the gift of faith into them.

2. Faith as a received gift of God. The gift of faith is welcomed and received by a lost sinner who feels his or her deep need of salvation. With this gift of faith, he or she believes the gospel. This view emphasizes the acceptance of the "gift" of faith by the sinner. The sinner willingly and knowingly receives the gift of faith and has believing faith. In this sense, the sinner willingly, knowingly, and actively receives the gift of faith.

3. Faith as a personal decision to believe the gospel. This view holds that the gift of God does not refer to the word, faith; rather it refers to the whole plan of salvation. This view teaches that the whole "by grace you are saved through faith" plan of salvation is the gift of God. For Israel in the Old Testament, the plan was "by the law you are blessed through obedience." The OT involved the "keeping the law." The New Testament involves "faith in Christ." The OT was a system of "works." The NT is based upon "grace."

1. Infused Faith.

Probably the most popular view is that faith is infused into a sinner. Since the human population is held to be incapable of believing the gospel message, it is necessary for God to impart living faith into the dead and unresponsive sinner. After the Holy Spirit has imparted faith into the sinner, the person is able to accept the gospel of salvation.

This view emphasizes the sovereignty of God in saving souls. Whoever God sovereignly chooses to impart life and faith, comes to faith.

Popular among Roman Catholics and Calvinists
Dort

The Canons of Dort​


ARTICLE 14

Faith is therefore to be considered as the gift of God, not on account of its being offered by God to man, to be accepted or rejected at his pleasure, but because it is in reality conferred upon him, breathed and infused into him; nor even because God bestows the power or ability to believe, and then expects that man should by the exercise of his own free will consent to the terms of salvation and actually believe in Christ, but because He who works in man both to will and to work, and indeed all things in all, produces both the will to believe and the act of believing also.
Click to expand...
You are in denial. Grant means to give such as granting permission. I figured since you repeat yourself ad nauseum that must be the way it works here.
 
Presby02 said:
So you admit it, good.
Click to expand...
I admit you presume otherwise

I also admit Calvinist like to have their cake and east it too

You hold Eph 2:8 speaks of faith as a gift of God

Is it a gift man can refuse or is it given directly by God?

You can then explain how permission is relevant as scripture states God grants faith
 
TomL said:
I admit you presume otherwise

I also admit Calvinist like to have their cake and east it too

You hold Eph 2:8 speaks of faith as a gift of God

Is it a gift man can refuse or is it given directly by God?

You can then explain how permission is relevant as scripture states God grants faith
Click to expand...
You won't refuse it because your heart of stone has been replaced with a heart of flesh. God will cause you to obey His commands Those who are drawn "will come to me".

Another obvious attempt at deflecting.
 
Presby02 said:
You won't refuse it because your heart of stone has been replaced with a heart of flesh. God will cause you to obey His commands Those who are drawn "will come to me".

Another obvious attempt at deflecting.
Click to expand...
So do you believe God directly gives you faith?

It is the only way you can hold faith is a gift

And it is not a deflection, but it goes to the heart of the matter

If faith is a gift as your theology holds

It is either a gift you can refuse or

it is a gift God gives directly unilaterally

see

Faith: Is it a gift infused, a gift received, or a decision to believe?​

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJ)

There are several views of the role of faith in Ephesians Chapter 2 verses 8-9. It might be helpful to examine briefly these views. These two verses are acknowledged to be scripture by those who accept the New Testament. The different concepts of the role of faith come from trying to understand what these two verses mean. There are, at least, three basic views regarding the role of faith in these two verses.

In brief, the views are as follows.

1. Faith as an infused gift of God. Faith is believed to be infused into the person who is dead-like. While dead, they become gifted with saving faith. In this sense, faith is an infused gift from God. This view holds that no one is saved unless God imparted the gift of faith into them.

Calvinist belief is represented there as shown by how it handles Eph 2:8
 
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Presby02 said:
You won't refuse it because your heart of stone has been replaced with a heart of flesh. God will cause you to obey His commands Those who are drawn "will come to me".
Click to expand...
Those who are drawn are those who have listened and learned. It is not unilateral

BTW faith precedes regeneration the impartation of life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


​
 
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TomL said:
So do you believe God directly gives you faith?

It is the only way you can hold faith is a gift

And it is not a deflection, but it goes to the heart of the matter

If faith is a gift as your theology holds

It is either a gift you can refuse or

it is a gift God gives directly unilaterally

see

Faith: Is it a gift infused, a gift received, or a decision to believe?​

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJ)

There are several views of the role of faith in Ephesians Chapter 2 verses 8-9. It might be helpful to examine briefly these views. These two verses are acknowledged to be scripture by those who accept the New Testament. The different concepts of the role of faith come from trying to understand what these two verses mean. There are, at least, three basic views regarding the role of faith in these two verses.

In brief, the views are as follows.

1. Faith as an infused gift of God. Faith is believed to be infused into the person who is dead-like. While dead, they become gifted with saving faith. In this sense, faith is an infused gift from God. This view holds that no one is saved unless God imparted the gift of faith into them.

Calvinist belief is represented there as shown by how it handles Eph 2:8
Click to expand...
Exactly. Those who heard and learned WILL COME to the Father. Hearing and learning is how they are drawn. What you assume, a negative inference fallacy, that some who hear and learn do not come. Nowhere stated in the text.
 

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