Calvinism : Fictional Characters
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The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Why not? Presby gave the answer quite clearly, but what do you say to that answer?
civic
Well-known member
They are deflecting since Gods character is immutable and mans is not.
You mean aside from scripture which clearly states God cannot lie
Numbers 23:19 (ESV) — 19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
Yes and God is perfectly holy and man is not
civic
Well-known member
Ditto the strawmen are piling up lately
so it seems
But you can right?
civic
Well-known member
i can do plenty of things God cannot do.
So God's will is not free then?i can do plenty of things God cannot do.
civic
Well-known member
sure it is why would you say that ?
you must have a different meaning for free will.
maybe this calvinist website called Got Questions can help you with your fallacious question.
We first need to define what we mean by “free will.” For the purpose of this article, we will define free will as “the capacity of a conscious mind to make decisions and choices without any external constraints or coercion.” God has a mind and is conscious; He has the capacity to make decisions and choose (He has volition); He does not answer to any authority, is not limited by any external constraints, and cannot be coerced. Therefore, based on this definition, we can say, yes, God certainly possesses free will.
God created us with a free will, too; it’s part of what distinguishes us from rocks and animals. But the volition we possess is of a lesser sort than God’s. Free will with no external constraints is impossible for human beings to have, since we always have limitations of some kind. There are always things that we cannot choose to do, such as flap our arms and fly to the moon. At best, the above definition suggests that human beings only have mostly free will—there do exist external constraints on our choices—and not completely free will. We surmise that God has completely free will in the sense that, in His omnipotence, He is not limited by anything apart from Himself. According to Job 36:23, no one tells God what to do: “Who has appointed Him His way, And who has said, ‘You have done wrong’?” (NASB).
Another way to look at free will in human beings is that we have a certain aspect of our decision-making process that is unconstrained by natural laws. Many events are determined by natural laws: a pen falls when someone drops it (the law of gravity), and robins build nests every spring (animal instinct). But no such natural laws govern one’s choice to put on tennis shoes instead of dress shoes, for example, or to order bacon for breakfast instead of sausage. Mankind operates in a realm subsidiary to the natural world, yet he maintains a limited autonomy within that world.
God, on the other hand, has free will in every aspect. The natural world operates subsidiarily to His realm. God is unconstrained by all natural laws; He in fact established those laws and is sovereign over them. God could have created the universe in any of a number of ways, and the way it exists is due to His choice. God was not required to create at all: in Revelation 4:11 we read, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.” The point is that even the act of creation itself was the result of God’s free will: His choice to create was not influenced by any necessity or obligation. God’s volition is absolute; His actions are neither deterministically constrained nor controlled by someone else.
There are certain things that God is incapable of doing because His perfect and holy nature disallows it. Titus 1:2 says that God “cannot lie” (NASB). This doesn’t suggest any kind of external control, however; the fact that God’s perfection prevents Him from lying identifies an intrinsic property of God’s own character. God cannot be unfaithful to Himself; He cannot break His Word; He cannot be less than perfect. A lesser being can choose to sin, but God cannot—or He would not be God.
Also, there are certain things that God is incapable of doing because of the very nature of reality. Can God make a triangular square? No, not if the words triangular and square have any real meaning. God does not deal in absurdities, fallacies, or farces. He deals in reality; in fact, God is the source of reality. He is the I AM WHO I AM (Exodus 3:14). As the Creator and Sustainer of all that is, God has defined what we call reality. The way things are is the way He chose things to be.
Human beings have some measure of free will. But God’s volition is truly free—it is maximal in both quantity and quality. God’s inability to lie or sin or be illogical does not diminish His freedom in any way, since it is the result of His own intrinsic nature; external influences have no hold on Him.
hope this helps !!!
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
If free will is libertarian, that is, one can choose virtually anything, then God could choose to lie. But we know that it is impossible for God to lie.
civic
Well-known member
see post 211.
civic
Well-known member
maybe this calvinist website called Got Questions can help you with your fallacious question.
We first need to define what we mean by “free will.” For the purpose of this article, we will define free will as “the capacity of a conscious mind to make decisions and choices without any external constraints or coercion.” God has a mind and is conscious; He has the capacity to make decisions and choose (He has volition); He does not answer to any authority, is not limited by any external constraints, and cannot be coerced. Therefore, based on this definition, we can say, yes, God certainly possesses free will.
God created us with a free will, too; it’s part of what distinguishes us from rocks and animals. But the volition we possess is of a lesser sort than God’s. Free will with no external constraints is impossible for human beings to have, since we always have limitations of some kind. There are always things that we cannot choose to do, such as flap our arms and fly to the moon. At best, the above definition suggests that human beings only have mostly free will—there do exist external constraints on our choices—and not completely free will. We surmise that God has completely free will in the sense that, in His omnipotence, He is not limited by anything apart from Himself. According to Job 36:23, no one tells God what to do: “Who has appointed Him His way, And who has said, ‘You have done wrong’?” (NASB).
Another way to look at free will in human beings is that we have a certain aspect of our decision-making process that is unconstrained by natural laws. Many events are determined by natural laws: a pen falls when someone drops it (the law of gravity), and robins build nests every spring (animal instinct). But no such natural laws govern one’s choice to put on tennis shoes instead of dress shoes, for example, or to order bacon for breakfast instead of sausage. Mankind operates in a realm subsidiary to the natural world, yet he maintains a limited autonomy within that world.
God, on the other hand, has free will in every aspect. The natural world operates subsidiarily to His realm. God is unconstrained by all natural laws; He in fact established those laws and is sovereign over them. God could have created the universe in any of a number of ways, and the way it exists is due to His choice. God was not required to create at all: in Revelation 4:11 we read, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.” The point is that even the act of creation itself was the result of God’s free will: His choice to create was not influenced by any necessity or obligation. God’s volition is absolute; His actions are neither deterministically constrained nor controlled by someone else.
There are certain things that God is incapable of doing because His perfect and holy nature disallows it. Titus 1:2 says that God “cannot lie” (NASB). This doesn’t suggest any kind of external control, however; the fact that God’s perfection prevents Him from lying identifies an intrinsic property of God’s own character. God cannot be unfaithful to Himself; He cannot break His Word; He cannot be less than perfect. A lesser being can choose to sin, but God cannot—or He would not be God.
Also, there are certain things that God is incapable of doing because of the very nature of reality. Can God make a triangular square? No, not if the words triangular and square have any real meaning. God does not deal in absurdities, fallacies, or farces. He deals in reality; in fact, God is the source of reality. He is the I AM WHO I AM (Exodus 3:14). As the Creator and Sustainer of all that is, God has defined what we call reality. The way things are is the way He chose things to be.
Human beings have some measure of free will. But God’s volition is truly free—it is maximal in both quantity and quality. God’s inability to lie or sin or be illogical does not diminish His freedom in any way, since it is the result of His own intrinsic nature; external influences have no hold on Him.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Yes paired with James that God temps no one to sin.
Its never Gods will for man to sin otherwise it would be ok for God to temp them to sin and comply with His will.
See the double talk, the oxymoron in this man made up system. Its ridiculous. It looks like bipolar disorder.
It was His will in Acts 4:27,28
David numbering Israel, and so on.
This from a guy who claims to have studied scripture for 40 years.
civic
Well-known member
fallacy alert lol.
the crucifixion was planned by God no one denies that but nowhere do we read every event in history was determined by God.
All that passage is saying is this was fulfilled prophecy. Not every event in history is a fulfillment of prophecy. What God says He will accomplish using mans sin for His good just like Josephs brothers.
strawman addressed on to the next fallacy.
hope this helps !!!
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Religious "Word Games". Nothing more.
civic
Well-known member
exactly if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, waddles like a duck, a bill like a duck, swims like a duck its a duck
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
One aspect of the "Charismatic outpouring" back in the '70s was that It showed those of us who were part of it, the relative uselessness of "Theological systematics", and "Precious Denominational beliefs" that separated us. The "Holy Spirit led" portion of the "outpouring" began back in '66, or so, and was waning by '78. This was normal, since "times of refreshing Come, and GO, leaving their spiritual deposits in the visible churches.exactly if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, waddles like a duck, a bill like a duck, swims like a duck its a duck
The "Outpouring", then degenerated into the "Charismatic Movement" with people trying to "Keep it going" which was impossible without the Holy Spirit driving it. And, of course there were the lunatic fringers with their NEW imperatives - "Positive confession", "Force of FAITH", "Word of Faith", etc.
