The Accomplice Factor

[Studyman]

So where do you stand on the issue.

Thanks for asking.

Luke 13: 1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Can a man not plug in any number of offences and those who partake of them?

1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Calvinists, who preach that men cannot Love and obey God, unless God forces them.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Calvinists were sinners above all the other religious sects of this world who transgress God's Commandments by their own religious traditions, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

So then are Armenians who reject God's Judgments and pollute His Sabbaths more righteous that Calvinist's who reject God's Judgments and pollute His Sabbaths?

How is promoting one religion over the other an act wrought in God?

I hardly think you can be neutral in this without a thought. I don't care about isms and I don't believe God was in an ISM, something it seems you look down upon when God said it's not his will that any should perish. Surely you don't think that' an ISM?

I have heard non-Calvinists promote the religious philosophy that God Loves "workers of Iniquity" AKA "Sinners". The Wrath of God against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men revealed in the Gospel of Christ, expose this popular religious doctrine just as false as the doctrine of the Calvinists who say God created mankind who can't turn to Him unless HE forces them.

Why would I adopt either one of these religious sects, or the philosophies they promote? Doing so would be me choosing man's word over God's Word.

I have no doubt that God wants all men to live forever. But HE said He places both life and death before us, and HE instructs us to "Choose Life". It isn't His choice that those who die, die. At least this is what the Christ, the Holy One of Israel said before HE became a man.

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: "for why will ye die", O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Of course, God wishes all men to follow His Instruction on how to live. But HE doesn't force men to listen to Him.

Is. 1: 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: "for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it".

I simply believe what HE says. Why would I adopt a religion who doesn't?

Look TRUTH would still be truth if anyone got offended and left.

Please stop insinuating those who put forth that God loves the sinner and that he so loved the world that he that believeth should have life are doing it for money.

Look Rockson, the truth about God is the Truth about God, even if you have been convinced it isn't. You want to believe that God Loves men who reject His Judgments, pollutes His Sabbaths, and walk in the imagination of their own minds. And truly this world is full of religious sects and businesses that promote this seductive religion. But when a man reads what is actually written by Inspiration of God, this popular religious philosophy is exposed as false. Are these Word not written for our admonition?

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

And how do they convince men to walk in the imagination of their own heart? By preaching to others that God Loves the workers of iniquity.

God loved me while I was yet in sin Rockson. He commanded me to "Repent" of my sin and Go and Sin no more. Why? "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Because He wishes all men to be saved.

Everybody is promoting something and so ARE YOU.

What am I promoting? Show me in my Posts what I am promoting.

Are you promoting a neutral position that no one can know about whether God loves the sinner .

That's foolishness Rockson. I posted God's Own Words that you refused to even acknowledge. I didn't even take a side. I simply allowed God to answer the question. "God, do you love the workers of iniquity"?

Here is God's answer.

Psalms 11: 5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. 7 For the righteous LORD "loveth righteousness"; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them "which do iniquity" (Sinner) 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye "workers of iniquity". (Sinners) 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against "all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (Sinners)

I can fill this page with volumes of the same Words in which God explains why HE wants men to repent of their sins. It's not because HE Loves the workers of iniquity, but because He wants men to turn from their iniquity so they may live. Because the Lord has spoken it.

What exactly are you standing for. If it's nothing then sorry that's what you're promoting.

I advocate for placing our trust in the Holy scriptures, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works"

To believe in the Jesus "of the Bible".

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but "by every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

You're in the world and you're promoting something.

I've been clear regarding who my Faith is in. I believe in the Jesus "of the bible" when HE tells me whose house will stand, and whose house will fall. I advocate that everyone turn to Him and leave this world's religions which transgress God's commandments by their own religious traditions.

But you are. You're either saying God did ordain every evil thing on the earth to take place or you're saying he didn't. Or you're saying you don't know and if you're content with that position sorry but you're saying Ignorance is Bliss.

If you were to actually read my posts, you wouldn't make up such foolishness about them. Because you are snared to promote the religious philosophies of one religious sect over another, you miss what is right in front of your face, just as the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time did.

When God declared, "Thou shall not steal" there is automatically presented the choice to obey or not obey. One is called righteousness the other wickedness. We are creatures created with the capacity to choose by virtue of the commandment itself. If we didn't have to capacity to choose, there would be no need for God to say "Thou shall not".

Therefore, as He Himself declares "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Paul understood this.

1 Cor. 7: 19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Neither Calvinists, nor Armenians promote this philosophy. Why would I adopt them to teach me about God?

That's what we're trying to do and we don't put on the shelf as unimportant that God DOES INDEED love the sinner.

That is your religious philosophy, promoted by this world's religions "Who come in Christ's Name". And you will defend all your religious traditions, judgments, doctrines, high days, images of God etc., even when presented with unreputable evidence from the mouth of God, His Son, His Prophets and His Apostles.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them "which do iniquity" (Sinners) 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied "in thy name"? and "in thy name" have cast out devils? and "in thy name" done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Sinners)

You should really consider asking yourself why you refuse to accept these Words of the Christ of the Bible.

I do believe the truth that God loves all will always be in place.

I think I should listen to what God actually says about the workers of iniquity, and to take heed of preaching of the "many" who come in Christ's Name, as HE instructs.

Yes I do. It we didn't his character would be gone. Surely you don't think that will pass away?

There is a serious disconnect between how God's defines His Character in scriptures, and how the religions of this world define His Character.

I simply believe that a man should trust the Holy scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Sinning is not a good work that God Loves. At least according to His Inspired Word.

 

[Rockson]

Luke 13: 1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I never said Calvinists were worse sinners and I never said I'm never in a place when I feel I don't need to repent about anything. And with you quoting that scripture you're insinuating I'm not even saved, "except you repent ye shall likewise perish" I will say this though ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT and if you read my writings I always usually make that statement on this particular subject I'm not wrong but am right. Such doesn't mean I'm claiming I'm absolutely right about every subject one can think of.

1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Calvinists, who preach that men cannot Love and obey God, unless God forces them.

And if you take the wraps off of what they say that's what they teach. They'll buck at the word FORCE but if God ordains everything before hand then it has to be defined as force any way you want to look at it.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Calvinists were sinners above all the other religious sects of this world who transgress

I never said they were sinners above me or others although whether they believe it or not or are conscius of it I consider God views them as sinning against his message. That's not to say all of us aren't making mistakes in other areas of Christian thought.

God's Commandments by their own religious traditions, because they suffered such things?

If I saw something bad happen to a Calvinists I WOULD NOT ASSUME or even want to that what happened to them was because of Calvinism. I'm not sure if all the other NonCalvinsits would believe that either.

How is promoting one religion over the other an act wrought in God?

Sorry but you're off the rails here. Paul the Apostle promoted his gospel over the ways of thinking other Christians had who were confused about having to keep the law. So he should never have done that?

 

[Studyman]

I never said Calvinists were worse sinners and I never said I'm never in a place when I feel I don't need to repent about anything. And with you quoting that scripture you're insinuating I'm not even saved, "except you repent ye shall likewise perish" I will say this though ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT and if you read my writings I always usually make that statement on this particular subject I'm not wrong but am right. Such doesn't mean I'm claiming I'm absolutely right about every subject one can think of.

You are making this all about you and are offended to the point of having to justify yourself. You asked me my position on the subject of Armenian vs Calvinism. I answered your question. I'm sorry if my answer stung you.

And if you take the wraps off of what they say that's what they teach. They'll buck at the word FORCE but if God ordains everything before hand then it has to be defined as force any way you want to look at it.

Yes, taking the lipstick off of this world's religious philosophies is a good way to discern the truth of them.

I never said they were sinners above me or others although whether they believe it or not or are conscius of it I consider God views them as sinning against his message. That's not to say all of us aren't making mistakes in other areas of Christian thought.

Again, you asked me my position on the subject. My answer is that when the lipstick is taken off the doctrines and philosophies of both Calvinism and Arminianism they are the same, in my view. That's why I don't promote one over the other.

If I saw something bad happen to a Calvinists I WOULD NOT ASSUME or even want to that what happened to them was because of Calvinism. I'm not sure if all the other NonCalvinsits would believe that either.

Again, I simply answered your question regarding my position on Calvinism vs Arminianism. I don't wish for anything bad to happen to anyone. I simply wish men would trust God and His Word and stop listening to and promoting the popular religious philosophies of this world's religious sects and businesses.

Sorry but you're off the rails here. Paul the Apostle promoted his gospel over the ways of thinking other Christians had who were confused about having to keep the law. So he should never have done that?

I have heard of this popular religious philosophy that Paul brought his own gospel which promoted disobedience to God's Law.

The confusion that existed then, is still common today in my view. There are men who believed the Pharisees were walking in and promoting God's Commandments and Judgments. That they were trying to "earn salvation" by obedience to God and His Laws. This is an insidious lie that is easily exposed simply by listening to Jesus as HE described the Pharisees and their religion. The Pharisees did have a Law no doubt. It just wasn't God's Law.

This same thing can be said about both Armenians and Calvinists. They have a Law, they have their judgments, high days, traditions etc. But like the Pharisees religion, they are not from the Word of God.

Did Paul choose between promoting the Pharisees over the Sadducees? Or visa versa? I don't believe he did.

How is promoting one religion over the other an act wrought in God?

 

[TibiasDad]

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come "in my name", saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Now I see where you are coming from, but you are still wrong! It is not that many “Christian’s” will say that “Jesus is Christ” and deceive many; it is that many will come under the guise of Christian faith and claim that they themselves are Jesus Christ and deceive many!

Such a small misunderstanding is, in my humble opinion, leading you to an extreme and unhealthy point of view.


Doug

 

[Rockson]

You are making this all about you and are offended to the point of having to justify yourself.

Please stop being ridiculous. You described Calvinists and how others are looking upon them and mentioned those looking upon them considered them as worse sinners, thus your quotation Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. I am not offended neither was I. I was just telling you straight I did not consider myself as a better person then they.

Yes, taking the lipstick off of this world's religious philosophies is a good way to discern the truth of them.

As I assessed your last post which I haven't fully commented on it yet sorry but I see you have your own worldly philosophy not found in the word of God.

 

[Studyman]

Now I see where you are coming from, but you are still wrong! It is not that many “Christian’s” will say that “Jesus is Christ” and deceive many; it is that many will come under the guise of Christian faith and claim that they themselves are Jesus Christ and deceive many!

Such a small misunderstanding is, in my humble opinion, leading you to an extreme and unhealthy point of view.


Doug

LOL, yes, while you are waiting for "many" to come along "In Christ's Name" and tell you they are the real Jesus, Kenneth Copeland and the Pope, and all those others who Paul said "Transformed themselves" into apostles of Christ can convince you of all manner of foolishness and false doctrines. And you will eat them up hook line and sinker, while you wait for "Many" to tell you "I am really the Christ of the Bible", not Jesus.

Nevertheless, I hope you can humble yourself just a little, and consider the utter ridiculousness of what you just said.

 

[Rockson]

I have heard non-Calvinists promote the religious philosophy that God Loves "workers of Iniquity" AKA "Sinners". The Wrath of God against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men revealed in the Gospel of Christ, expose this popular religious doctrine just as false as the doctrine of the Calvinists who say God created mankind who can't turn to Him unless HE forces them.

OK no offence but this reveals YOUR religious philosophy. God does love sinners! You have not allowed the word of God to balance out your thinking. I'm well aware that God gives up people to a reprobate mind and I'm well aware that they bring upon themselves the wrath of God. That is judgement of God which must eventually be expressed but even with that such doesn't mean God didn't love them or hated them! God IS LOVE. That's what God is! Eze 33: 11 states,

Say unto them: ‘As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?’

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.....NO PLEASURE. He longed for them to live. For the reason that God judged them didn't mean it didn't break his heart and regard to them and it didn't mean God stopped loving them. He couldn't do anything more to help them due to his righteous laws.

I have no doubt that God wants all men to live forever. But HE said He places both life and death before us, and HE instructs us to "Choose Life". It isn't His choice that those who die, die. At least this is what the Christ, the Holy One of Israel said before HE became a man.

I agree.

Look Rockson, the truth about God is the Truth about God, even if you have been convinced it isn't.

And Studyman I'd say that to you based on my words on the top of this post.

You want to believe that God Loves men who reject His Judgments, pollutes His Sabbaths, and walk in the imagination of their own minds.

He hates the sin but loves the sinner. And actually I don't believe we have to keep a Sabbath day now so I guess you're saying God doesn't love me or even many here on this site. Sorry but you need to consider you have not rightly divided the word of truth.

What am I promoting? Show me in my Posts what I am promoting.

Here it is. You're promoting that you don't believe God chooses a select number to be saved. You believe men freely can choose to receive or reject. I agree. But you also promote borrowing from your phraseology, a worldly philosophy that God actually hates sinners who don't repent. I'd say you've actually missed and failed to discern the true loving character of God.

Psalms 11: 5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. 7 For the righteous LORD "loveth righteousness"; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Yes I know I've seen it argued from this OT verse before. You failed however to pick up the spirit by which this verse is meant to be understood. Let me just say even with humans I've seen parents subjected to continual hurt inflicted upon them from a disobedient offspring and they say in a sense that they feel they hate their own kid. Do they really though? No. If they receive news the child was killed their hearts would be broken and they cry!....WHY?

Because in real terms THEY STILL did love them. Such is the same with God and backed up with what Jesus taught we are to love our enemies Matt 5:44 .....and God is LOVE.1 Jn 4:8 Jesus also wept over Jerusalem about a city that was going to receive judgment. Lk 19:41 You don't weep over people you didn't love. You need to let those truths balance out your OT verse you've quoted and see the dynamics of how it's meant to be understood.

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye "workers of iniquity". (Sinners) 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Yes but see what I've said above.

I can fill this page with volumes of the same Words in which God explains why HE wants men to repent of their sins. It's not because HE Loves the workers of iniquity, but because He wants men to turn from their iniquity so they may live.

Good grief! So why does he want them to LIVE? Not because he loves them? Come on you've shown you're not a Calvinists so you do believe God so loved the world that he gave Jesus to the world? You do believe that right? So maybe time for you to consider you need to make an adjustment on just what God's love is like. I'd say you're half way there by your not accepting Calvinism but no offense you still have a little bit of their philosophy within you.

 

[Studyman]

Please stop being ridiculous. You described Calvinists and how others are looking upon them and mentioned those looking upon them considered them as worse sinners, thus your quotation Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. I am not offended neither was I. I was just telling you straight I did not consider myself as a better person then they.

I think Jesus was making the point about God's Righteous Judgment. That is why I posted His Words and not my own. Calvinists, Pharisees, Armenians along with both you and I will all be Judged by God with the same Judgment. You are not better than the Calvinist, as both you and I and the Calvinist will be judged by our works.

If you believe you can live in transgress God's Commandments by your own religious traditions and not be held accountable, then you might believe you are better than they. I think Jesus' point is clear. Unless we all repent of our transgressions, we shall all likewise perish.

You guys are the ones singling out Calvinists as promoting false doctrines. I simply pointed out that most all of this world's religions, including Armenians, also have created their own religious philosophies, partake of manmade high days, have rejected God's Judgments and created their own, etc..

As I assessed your last post which I haven't fully commented on it yet sorry but I see you have your own worldly philosophy not found in the word of God.

Perhaps you can point out the Philosophy I am promoting that is not found in the Word of God.

 

[Studyman]

OK no offence but this reveals YOUR religious philosophy. God does love sinners! You have not allowed the word of God to balance out your thinking. I'm well aware that God gives up people to a reprobate mind and I'm well aware that they bring upon themselves the wrath of God. That is judgement of God which must eventually be expressed but even with that such doesn't mean God didn't love them or hated them! God IS LOVE. That's what God is! Eze 33: 11 states,

Say unto them: ‘As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?’

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.....NO PLEASURE. He longed for them to live. For the reason that God judged them didn't mean it didn't break his heart and regard to them and it didn't mean God stopped loving them. He couldn't do anything more to help them due to his righteous laws.

Are you saying the problem is God's Laws?

How would I allow God to balance my thinking? Would it not be by believing all of His Inspired Words, including this Psalms that Paul quoted in Rom. 3?

Psalms 5: 4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: "thou hatest all workers of iniquity". 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD "will abhor the bloody and deceitful man".

7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple. 8 Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face. 9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; "their" throat is an open sepulchre; "they" flatter with their tongue.

Now your religion preaches that God Loves all the workers of Iniquity. That is completely the opposite of what God Himself Inspired to be written. But for me, it is no wonder that God hates the workers of iniquity (Sinner) because they influence those men whose refuge is the Lord. You can read this in the other Psalms Paul quoted in Romans 4, Ps. 14. Where is it written "Have all the "workers of iniquity" no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.

Shall a man not consider God's Words in Deuteronomy 32:18 "Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. 19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, "because" of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Ps. 11: 4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. 5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence "his soul hateth". 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. 7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Look at what you are trying to convince me of here Rockson. That God throws men "who HE loves", into the Lake of Fire. My reason for not believing in your religion, or Calvinism, is because of what the Scriptures Actually say. Now I posted His Words in which HE Himself tells you HIS Feelings towards the Workers of Iniquity. These are not my words; I simply believe them.

So who is telling the truth here? You???? Or my God??? I like you Rockson, but I'm not going to reject God's Word in order to be friends with the religions of this world. I hope you can understand.

I agree.

And Studyman I'd say that to you based on my words on the top of this post.

He hates the sin but loves the sinner. And actually I don't believe we have to keep a Sabbath day now so I guess you're saying God doesn't love me or even many here on this site. Sorry but you need to consider you have not rightly divided the word of truth.

It isn't the Sin that HE throws into the Lake of fire Rockson, it's the Workers of Iniquity. I posted the Jesus "of the Bibles" own Words and you didn't even acknowledge them. Here are Paul's words.

Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Commandment) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (That means NO Rockson)

16 "Know ye not", that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Don't you know this? This world's religions have rejected, polluted and despised God's Judgments and Sabbaths for centuries. It IS the religious tradition of this world. Where does God or Jesus instruct you to reject God's Judgments or Sabbath? Paul never promoted the philosophies of men or manmade religious traditions. He specifically warned against them.

Col. 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the "tradition of men", after the "rudiments of the world", and not after Christ.

Whose traditions is it to reject God's Sabbaths? This World's religions? Or Jesus'?

What is more important to you? God's Truth, or your own adopted religion where "they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you"? (Jer. 23:17)

What "Word of Truth" do you bring to this discussion?

What if God's Word is true, and it's the religious philosophies of this world you and I were born into, that God and His Son and His Prophets and Disciples warn about over and over and over about, that are the deception.

Surely a man seeking Truth would consider this question. While a man seeking justification, would hide from the Light, "lest his deeds should be reproved".

I'll finish my reply in another post.

These discussions are good to have among men, in my view.

 

[Rockson]

I think Jesus was making the point about God's Righteous Judgment. That is why I posted His Words and not my own. Calvinists, Pharisees, Armenians along with both you and I will all be Judged by God with the same Judgment. You are not better than the Calvinist, as both you and I and the Calvinist will be judged by our works.

I think you're mixing up different subjects and themes here. Yes we will have to give account for what we say as claiming to teach the word of God. Jm 3:1 states this. As to saying one won't be looked upon as having more error than another I don't think you can just claim that. We'll see in the day of accounting.

You guys are the ones singling out Calvinists as promoting false doctrines. I simply pointed out that most all of this world's religions, including Armenians, also have created their own religious philosophies, partake of manmade high days, have rejected God's Judgments and created their own, etc..

Those are other subjects than this and you feel certain it is true. Perhaps. I guess you'd have to present your claims and see if there are sound rebuttals.

 

[Rockson]

Are you saying the problem is God's Laws?

No but our failure of understanding the spirit of what is meant by some statements especially in light of the New Testament which ends progressive revelation. You have to allow at times two scripture which seem to contradict themselves and arrive at a good feel of what must have been met. eg Prov 14:30 which speaks of jealousy not being good but then Ex 34:14 says God is jealous. There's many other examples like this and what is needed is to understand the spirit of what he really being meant in the context of a statement.

How would I allow God to balance my thinking? Would it not be by believing all of His Inspired Words, including this Psalms that Paul quoted in Rom. 3?

Yes even with Psalms you need those balanced out to understand the spirit of what was meant. Read my point 47 again 7th paragraph down.

So who is telling the truth here? You???? Or my God???

God is always telling the truth but you've got to capture the spirit of what he meant using other scriptures to balance things out.

I like you Rockson, but I'm not going to reject God's Word in order to be friends with the religions of this world. I hope you can understand.

Well take the time to study out and consider what I've shared. Might not be wise to reject it outright.

Whose traditions is it to reject God's Sabbaths? This World's religions? Or Jesus'?

I think I'll pass on discussing this particular subject and theme here. But not I don't believe we required to keep a Sabbath day anymore.

These discussions are good to have among men, in my view.

Sure.

 

[Studyman]

Here it is. You're promoting that you don't believe God chooses a select number to be saved. You believe men freely can choose to receive or reject. I agree. But you also promote borrowing from your phraseology, a worldly philosophy that God actually hates sinners who don't repent. I'd say you've actually missed and failed to discern the true loving character of God.

And who has convinced you that is it a Loving God to "LOVE" men who lead His Children astray? Who preaches lies about Him and His Word to His Children. Who ridicule and demean anyone who would strive to "Live by" Every Word which proceeds out of the mouth of God, as His Son commands. Why do you believe God lied to me in the scriptures I posted where HE Himself tells me how HE feels about the Workers of Iniquity?? Who taught you that God lies to His People, and can't be trusted, so that I must adopt the religious philosophies of the Baptist, or Armenian, or whatever religion adopted at the time?

And yet, this is your religious philosophy. This is what you would have me believe. I know you mean no harm, and that you believe what you have been taught. But Jesus warns us of this very thing.

What if God isn't lying Rockson? What if HE hates the workers of iniquity, but is long suffering so they will turn away from His Wrath?

Rom. 2: 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

And why is there Wrath against these men? Well, I just posted where God says HE hates the Workers of Iniquity. But you are trying to convince me God lied to me and Paul. I'm sorry Rockson, I mean no offence here, but I am committed to God.

Yes I know I've seen it argued from this OT verse before. You failed however to pick up the spirit by which this verse is meant to be understood. Let me just say even with humans I've seen parents subjected to continual hurt inflicted upon them from a disobedient offspring and they say in a sense that they feel they hate their own kid. Do they really though? No. If they receive news the child was killed their hearts would be broken and they cry!....WHY?

Jesus said HE doesn't even know "workers of Iniquity" who call Him Lord Lord. How are these sinners God's Children?

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; "depart from me", all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and "you yourselves thrust out".

Your analogy is given to justify your own religion, to bring God down to the image of man. Not in pursuit of God's truth.

Duet. 4: 23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. 24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Hebrews 12: 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may "serve God" acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Because in real terms THEY STILL did love them. Such is the same with God and backed up with what Jesus taught we are to love our enemies Matt 5:44 .....and God is LOVE.1 Jn 4:8 Jesus also wept over Jerusalem about a city that was going to receive judgment. Lk 19:41 You don't weep over people you didn't love. You need to let those truths balance out your OT verse you've quoted and see the dynamics of how it's meant to be understood.

Again, here is what the Scriptures actually teaches.

Heb. 12: 6 For "whom the Lord loveth" he chasteneth, and scourgeth "every son" whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you "as with sons"; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, "then are ye bastards, and not sons".

I can see you don't like answering questions, but I will ask anyway. In Matt. 7:22,23, these self-proclaimed "Christians" were "Workers of Iniquity" who Jesus said to depart from Him, as HE didn't even know them.

In your religion, were these God's Sons? Or bastards?

You assume Jesus wept for the Children of the devil, the bastards. Could it be that Jesus wept for those Sons of God who would face hardship because of the children of the devil who would persecute them after HE was gone?

Yes but see what I've said above.

Good grief! So why does he want them to LIVE? Not because he loves them?

I have already acknowledged God's truth regarding His Love towards men while they were ignorant, still a slave to sin. But I also posted His Own Words in which HE defines how HE feels about those who lead His children astray even after His Righteousness, and His Wrath against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men was revealed to them. Paul said there was no excuse for them, for God had shown them, just as HE has shown both you and I.

2 Thes. 2: 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That "they all might be damned" who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God does this to the workers of iniquity because He loves them?

1 John 2: 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, "the love of the Father is not in him". 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Rev. 3: 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

You are trying to persuade me that these Words of God, along with the others I posted, are not to be trusted and believed. That God Loves the "workers of Iniquity" and those who promote the religions of this world that turn men away from "Yielding themselves" servants to obey God.

Why would I turn away from God's Word to adopt that religion?

Come on you've shown you're not a Calvinists so you do believe God so loved the world that he gave Jesus to the world? You do believe that right? So maybe time for you to consider you need to make an adjustment on just what God's love is like. I'd say you're half way there by your not accepting Calvinism but no offense you still have a little bit of their philosophy within you.

You want me to adopt your religion. The Calvinist wants me to adopt their religion. JW's want me to adopt theirs. You all Preach to the world that God Loves the workers of iniquity. You all reject God's Sabbaths and Judgments.

And yet here is what God actually teaches about such a people..

Ez. 20: 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:

19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;

20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.

22 Nevertheless "I withdrew mine hand", and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted "in the sight of the heathen", in whose sight I brought them forth.

You and this world's religions preach that God spared them because HE "Loves the Workers of Iniquity".

These Words of God are the reason why I believe Him, and not you on this topic. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible". I hope maybe you might reconsider where your philosophy comes from and turn to this same God.

 

[Studyman]

No but our failure of understanding the spirit of what is meant by some statements especially in light of the New Testament which ends progressive revelation. You have to allow at times two scripture which seem to contradict themselves and arrive at a good feel of what must have been met. eg Prov 14:30 which speaks of jealousy not being good but then Ex 34:14 says God is jealous. There's many other examples like this and what is needed is to understand the spirit of what he really being meant in the context of a statement.

I have found no such contradictions in the Scriptures, although "many" who come in Christ's Name preach that there are.

Proverbs 14: 30 A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

Envy is not the same as Jealousy. If this is your example of the Holy scriptures contradicting itself, it is a foolish example, and doesn't make your case. Since you preach there are many examples of the scriptures contradicting themselves, why not give another example where this is really the case?

Yes even with Psalms you need those balanced out to understand the spirit of what was meant. Read my point 47 again 7th paragraph down.

Why should I believe that twisting scriptures to fit your specific religious philosophy is the only way for me to understand God? You just blow off everything I post, and declare it wrong, simply because it doesn't align with your particular religion. How is that any different that the Calvinist, who does the exact same thing? Why not actually address the Scriptures posted and have a discussion about them?

God is always telling the truth but you've got to capture the spirit of what he meant using other scriptures to balance things out.

That's what I did. But like with the Calvinist, if the scriptures don't align with your doctrine, "God loves the workers of iniquity", it is rejected.

Well take the time to study out and consider what I've shared. Might not be wise to reject it outright.

I have studied your religious philosophy for 30 years. I was once snared by it myself. So I understand the power of pride and religious tradition. I just hope that some night, in the quietness of your own home, when there is no one to impress or save face to, you might consider what the Scriptures actually say about God and the "Workers of Iniquity".

I think I'll pass on discussing this particular subject and theme here. But not I don't believe we required to keep a Sabbath day anymore.

Sure.

I know, so do the Calvinists, and JW's, and the Baptists, and "many" who come in Christ's Name. Even the SDA have created a massive religious business which requires men to work for them 24/7 to keep the bottom line.

But as Paul teaches, "Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind" what Day God esteems above the others.

 

[Rockson]

And who has convinced you that is it a Loving God to "LOVE" men who lead His Children astray?

Studyman you're really missing the whole point. I never said God is overjoyed when people commit the type of sin you've mentioned above. And I never said he's not grieved. And I never said he doesn't reach a point where he doesn't bring judgement. I'm saying God can hate the sin but love the sinner but it still doesn't mean he doesn't get angry. Natural parents have been angry at their offspring too and if a judge would have to side against them God can do all that and still feel the sorrow of LOVE which abides within him . How much more God, unless you're going to say we have a higher capacity then God to LOVE.

. Why do you believe God lied to me in the scriptures I posted where HE Himself tells me how HE feels about the Workers of Iniquity??

I'd encourage you not to be overly dramatic. I never said God lied to you at all. I said you're misinterpreting what God has said in scripture.

Who taught you that God lies to His People, and can't be trusted,

Was God lying to his people when he said he's a jealous God Ex 20:5 but basically calls jealously sin in Prov 6:24? Was God lying to his people when he said he's a God who doesn't change in Num 23:19 but we read in 1 Sam 15:10 where he does change his plans? Was God lying to his people when he said in Rom 3:10 where he stated that no one is sinless but then he said in Job 1:1 that Job was a perfect and upright man?

No he wasn't lying any of those times. One must examine closely the context and capture at times the spirit of what was being meant. So must you do when you look at an old testament verse of sculpture which says God hates sinners or any sinner. Other New Testament verses balance it all out if you'll let them.

I know you mean no harm, and that you believe what you have been taught. But Jesus warns us of this very thing.

Have I been taught this by others? Not sure that I have. Think I just arrived at these conclusions my self by comparing scripture with scripture and knowing I believe the character of God.

What if God isn't lying Rockson?

I'd stop asserting as a conclusion you're right and claiming believing what I do has God lying. That's merely your assertion.

What if HE hates the workers of iniquity, but is long suffering so they will turn away from His Wrath?

He doesn't hate workers of iniquity in any way which you're meaning. He loves them and is longsuffering towards them because he loves them God so loved the world the Bible say in Jn 3:16

Rom. 2: 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Yes I agree with that.

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Yes I agree that's what God will do.

And why is there Wrath against these men?

Because in order to be just he must cause justice to be carried out even though he loves them.

I'm sorry Rockson, I mean no offence here, but I am committed to God.

Stay that way but keep your mind open to consider way of thinking you haven't heard before.

In your religion, were these God's Sons?

God loves all human spirits for God is love. It's not even a matter if they're sons of his or not. If God's love was dependent on that Jesus would never have come.

You assume Jesus wept for the Children of the devil,

Yes he did. He wept over Jerusalem and those who would ultimately be heading for judgement because of their reject him.

1 John 2: 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.

God so loved the world....that's talking about people that are sinners. Not sure how you could deny that. Love not the world in 1 Jn 2:15 is not talking about actual people but the actual things of sin.

Rev. 3: 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

You are trying to persuade me that these Words of God, along with the others I posted, are not to be trusted and believed.

I'm telling you that YES you still need to capture the spirit in which certain statements are meant to be understood. Those who made it possible to be in an actual love relationship with him he rebukes and chastens. In a sense it is they to whom he can express his LOVE too. You need to consider as well God says LOVE your enemies. He never said STOP loving them even though they reject your words.

You want me to adopt your religion. The Calvinist wants me to adopt their religion.

You have though accepted to a point and degree a Calvinist way of thinking that God alters the established character of what he is....LOVE. LOVE is that's what one is that is what one is. God is LOVE and can be nothing different even though he has to execute judgement.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I have found no such contradictions in the Scriptures, although "many" who come in Christ's Name preach that there are.

Proverbs 14: 30 A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

Envy is not the same as Jealousy. If this is your example of the Holy scriptures contradicting itself, it is a foolish example, and doesn't make your case. Since you preach there are many examples of the scriptures contradicting themselves, why not give another example where this is really the case?

Correct. Envy is covetousness, not jealousy.

Why should I believe that twisting scriptures to fit your specific religious philosophy is the only way for me to understand God? You just blow off everything I post, and declare it wrong, simply because it doesn't align with your particular religion. How is that any different that the Calvinist, who does the exact same thing? Why not actually address the Scriptures posted and have a discussion about them?

You mean like this?

"Calvinism is wrong, no doubt about it. Not entirely wrong, of course, but wrong at the points where it matters the most. Like this thread on the love of God." (from the thread on Calvinism & Love)

That's what I did. But like with the Calvinist, if the scriptures don't align with your doctrine, "God loves the workers of iniquity", it is rejected.

Does God love the workers of iniquity, @Rockson ?

I have studied your religious philosophy for 30 years. I was once snared by it myself. So I understand the power of pride and religious tradition. I just hope that some night, in the quietness of your own home, when there is no one to impress or save face to, you might consider what the Scriptures actually say about God and the "Workers of Iniquity".

I've studied it for 40 years. Does that make me more right than you, @Rockson?

 

[Rockson]

I have found no such contradictions in the Scriptures, although "many" who come in Christ's Name preach that there are.

And I don't believe there is either. In context of what I as saying it can seem that there is until one captures the spirit of what has been truly said i a particular passage.

Proverbs 14: 30 A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

Envy is not the same as Jealousy.

Strong's Concordance
qinah: ardor, zeal, jealousy
Original Word: קִנְאָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: qinah
Phonetic Spelling: (kin-aw')
Definition: ardor, zeal, jealousy

A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones. Prov 14:30
NLT

A tranquil heart is life to the body, But jealousy is rottenness to the bones.
New American Standard

And keep in mind I did not say God was ever lying! I said when one is dealing with seeming contradictions they need to look at context. Envy could be used in Prov 14:30 but it's choice of the translators Again definition : ardor, zeal, jealousy

Since you preach there are many examples of the scriptures contradicting themselves, why not give another example where this is really the case?

I already did. And I never said they are contradictions but rather one has to look at the passage and get the spirit and sense of what is being meant. I had already said this to you below,

Was God lying to his people when he said he's a jealous God Ex 20:5 but basically calls jealously sin in Prov 6:24? Was God lying to his people when he said he's a God who doesn't change in Num 23:19 but we read in 1 Sam 15:10 where he does change his plans? Was God lying to his people when he said in Rom 3:10 where he stated that no one is sinless but then he said in Job 1:1 that Job was a perfect and upright man?

My point: You need to allow all the NT examples of what God says how he loves the sinner balance out your pulling an odd OT verse which says God hates the sinner.

 

[Studyman]

And I don't believe there is either. In context of what I as saying it can seem that there is until one captures the spirit of what has been truly said i a particular passage.

Strong's Concordance
qinah: ardor, zeal, jealousy
Original Word: קִנְאָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: qinah
Phonetic Spelling: (kin-aw')
Definition: ardor, zeal, jealousy

A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones. Prov 14:30
NLT

A tranquil heart is life to the body, But jealousy is rottenness to the bones.
New American Standard

And keep in mind I did not say God was ever lying! I said when one is dealing with seeming contradictions they need to look at context. Envy could be used in Prov 14:30 but it's choice of the translators Again definition : ardor, zeal, jealousy

Strongs Concordance for the word used in Prov. 14:30..

Qinah "From 7065" Qana To be (cous. make) zealous ie (in a bad sense) jealous or envious:-(be) envy

Yes, Envy could be used in Proverbs 14;30. And is in the KJV, Wycliff, WEB, RSV, Darby, ASV, NRS, NIV, ESV and others.

Why would you want to consider God in such a bad light. "A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy/jealousy (in the flesh) the rottenness of the bones".

And when you looked up the Strongs, why did you omit the very first reference concerning the root of the world used in Proverbs 14?

You did this in your attempt to justify your own adopted religious philosophy, "God Loves all workers of iniquity". You are implying that when the Spirit of God inspired the Words to be written;

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

And again;

"The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

And again;

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

And again;

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them "which do iniquity" (Sinner) 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

That this is really God telling you how much "HE loves the Workers of Iniquity".

Armenians and other religious sects of this world God placed me in, preach to the world that God Loves these "Workers of Iniquity" so much that HE will raise them from the dead, give them immortality, and then throw them into an eternal burning torture with satan and its angels, in which these "workers of iniquity" will weep and gnash their teeth is agony for eons and eons without end.

I don't believe God gives the workers of iniquity immortality, that the Lake of fire will destroy them. But either way, how is this God showing His Love for the "Workers of Iniquity"? The answer is in the Scriptures I posted in which God tells me in plain and easy to understand language, how HE feels about the "workers of Iniquity". Why do you work so hard to convince others HE didn't really mean what HE said so many times?

What if God is telling the truth here, and it is the religions of this world, which is leading you astray? What if the reason why God destroys the "workers of Iniquity" isn't because HE loves them, but because of His Own Words in which He tells men straight up, that He abhors the "workers of iniquity"?

Did you do the word study on the word "Abhor" or "Hateth"? No Rockson. You have almost zero Scriptural support for your adopted doctrine, just like the Calvinist who have a religious philosophy but can't support it without omitting and rejecting volumes of Scriptures which, when believed expose their doctrines as not wrought in God. You expect this about their adopted religion, but not about yours. And they accept this truth about your religion, but not theirs. Why not simply listen to "Every Word" of God, as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs.

I asked you a question, but as with so many who come in Christ's name, you are not here to discuss what is actually written, but to justify yourself, and the religion you have adopted. My point is, Calvinists, Pharisees, Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, JW's and the rest of this world's religious sects engage in the exact same manner. Your religion has convinced you that God "Loves the Workers of Iniquity", that HE will grant immortality to and then torture for eternity. I don't believe this religious philosophy your adopted religion promotes, because of what God "Actually" tells men about Himself, and how HE feels about Workers of iniquity.

I already did. And I never said they are contradictions but rather one has to look at the passage and get the spirit and sense of what is being meant. I had already said this to you below,

Was God lying to his people when he said he's a jealous God Ex 20:5 but basically calls jealously sin in Prov 6:24? Was God lying to his people when he said he's a God who doesn't change in Num 23:19 but we read in 1 Sam 15:10 where he does change his plans? Was God lying to his people when he said in Rom 3:10 where he stated that no one is sinless but then he said in Job 1:1 that Job was a perfect and upright man?

My point: You need to allow all the NT examples of what God says how he loves the sinner balance out your pulling an odd OT verse which says God hates the sinner.

"Odd OT verses??? I post God's Word where HE defines for us how HE feels about the "workers of iniquity" and you judge them as "Odd OT verses"?


I posted the Words of the Jesus "of the Bible" concerning the "Workers of Iniquity", as well, about how HE doesn't know them, and how they will be gathered and thrown into the Lake of Fire. But you refused to even acknowledge His Words. Are these then also "ODD NT Verses"? How does this work in your religion Rockson. Every verse that doesn't align with the doctrines and philosophies of your adopted religion is an "ODD verse"?

1 Cor. 9: 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Is this also an odd NT verse?

Heb. 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Is this another odd NT verse?

I get how seductive your religious philosophy is and why so "many" are walking this path. "Come as you are", "God Loves all the workers of iniquity". And truly this world's religions have created a massive religious business selling this doctrine. And no doubt those "Christians" in Matt. 7: 22, 23, had also been snared into believing the doctrine, "God Loves us Workers of Iniquity" as they preached and cast out devils in Christ's Name!!!!

I think these things are worth discerning, for the very purpose finding the truth. But as Jesus said, "many" stay away from the light "lest their doctrines be exposed" as not wrought in God.

Thanks for the platform to show what God actually says, and the questions HIS Words, not mine, brings to your religious philosophy "God Loves all workers of
Iniquity".

 

[TibiasDad]

I think these things are worth discerning, for the very purpose finding the truth. But as Jesus said, "many" stay away from the light "lest their doctrines be exposed" as not wrought in God.

John 3:20 uses the word ἔργον, works, lifestyle deeds, and it does not mean doctrines!


Doug

 

[Studyman]

John 3:20 uses the word ἔργον, works, lifestyle deeds, and it does not mean doctrines!


Doug

Preaching, preserving, defending or promoting various religious doctrines and traditions are most certainly deeds/works wouldn't you say? Therefore, they make up, in part, the "works" all men are judged by according to God, Yes? Living by religious doctrines and religious traditions of one or more of this world's religions are certainly lifestyle choices which manifest themselves in our deeds, in my view. When a man refuses to bring the doctrines and/or the religious tradition he lives by to the Light, to protect and/or hide them from God's judgment, this is exactly what Jesus was talking about in John 3:20.

While the man who loves darkness who "doeth Truth", knowing and believing in this Jesus, comes to the Light for the very purpose of exposing their lifestyle to the Judgment of God, to ensure they are wrought in God and not the "many" religious men Jesus and Paul warned of, "Who come in His Name", or "Who profess to know God".

SM.

 

[TibiasDad]

Preaching, preserving, defending or promoting various religious doctrines and traditions are most certainly deeds/works wouldn't you say?

Not necessarily evil.

Therefore, they make up, in part, the "works" all men are judged by according to God, Yes? Living by religious doctrines and religious traditions of one or more of this world's religions are certainly lifestyle choices which manifest themselves in our deeds, in my view. When a man refuses to bring the doctrines and/or the religious tradition he lives by to the Light, to protect and/or hide them from God's judgment, this is exactly what Jesus was talking about in John 3:20.

There is so much wrong with this statement. Your “view” is unsubstantiated and self-serving; your view determines who is right and who is wrong. You are assuming the capacity to look into our hearts and determine whether he “refuses to bring the doctrines and/or the religious tradition he lives by to the Light, to protect and/or hide them from God's judgment”.

You would be saying the same thing if I were making your argument about you!

While the man who loves darkness who "doeth Truth", knowing and believing in this Jesus, comes to the Light for the very purpose of exposing their lifestyle to the Judgment of God, to ensure they are wrought in God and not the "many" religious men Jesus and Paul warned of, "Who come in His Name", or "Who profess to know God".

SM.

Ibid above. It is sufficient to disagree and explain your reasoning why any particular view is exegetically wrong. We do not have the right to judge motives or determine their guilt.


Doug