The Trinity The Touchstone of Truth

[Runningman]

Yes, I do, but the church we attend acknowledges that we are not the only church that has the truth. There are many churches who have the truth. We don't all agree on every issue, and that's okay, but there are some issues that are essential to agree on - and I think the Deity of Jesus is one of them. Does that mean that I think you are lost? No, not necessarily, but again this is a major doctrine.
By the way, if I didn't think I had the truth, I would believe something else, right?
Do you think I am lost?

Possibly we have different perspectives. I don't necessarily believe in what someone at church has decided is a major doctrine if the Bible doesn't make it into a major doctrine. I also already know that worshipping humans like Jesus as God is idolatry. It's a stumbling block to me. I didn't make it up. God and the apostles taught such things.

Yes I believe we all sincerely feel we have the truth.

No I don't believe you are necessarily lost. We are all going to need God's mercy regardless of what our doctrines are and our works will be how we are judged in the end anyway. All sins will be forgiven, except one, according to Jesus.

 

[101G]

Biblical citation needed for the above.

are U addressing 101G?

 

[Runningman]

are U addressing 101G?

Anyone who thinks they can provide Biblical citations will suffice.

 

[101G]

Anyone who thinks they can provide Biblical citations will suffice.

sure, concerning the Holy Spirit? yes, God is a Spirit, per John 4:24a. Father and Son are titles of the Holy Spirit. Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Father, now Son, Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

101G.

 

[civic]

Possibly we have different perspectives. I don't necessarily believe in what someone at church has decided is a major doctrine if the Bible doesn't make it into a major doctrine. I also already know that worshipping humans like Jesus as God is idolatry. It's a stumbling block to me. I didn't make it up. God and the apostles taught such things.

Yes I believe we all sincerely feel we have the truth.

No I don't believe you are necessarily lost. We are all going to need God's mercy regardless of what our doctrines are and our works will be how we are judged in the end anyway. All sins will be forgiven, except one, according to Jesus.

The disciples and those Jesus healed worshipped Him and He allowed it so you are on shaky and unbiblical ground with your De Nile of Christ. It dishonors Him and you take away His Glory.

 

[Runningman]

sure, concerning the Holy Spirit? yes, God is a Spirit, per John 4:24a.

That's only about the Father.

Father and Son are titles of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus denied being God in Matthew 12:31,32, clearly demonstrating that he is not the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

That's the Father, YHWH.

Father, now Son, Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

101G.

Says God didn't speak through His son until these last days so speaking through the son isn't how the universe was created in the beginning when God was creating. This, in context, refers to the creation of a time period, or age. It refers to the church age. Dig into the Greek and some literal English translations and you'll see what I am talking about. It means Jesus isn't God.

 

[Runningman]

The disciples and those Jesus healed worshipped Him and He allowed it so you are on shaky and unbiblical ground with your De Nile of Christ. It dishonors Him and you take away His Glory.

Worship isn't equal to the kind of worship in spirit and truth that Jesus taught only the Father gets. As honored and glorified as Jesus is, you have turned him into your idol. It's pardonable.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Yes, I do, but the church we attend acknowledges that we are not the only church that has the truth. There are many churches who have the truth. We don't all agree on every issue, and that's okay, but there are some issues that are essential to agree on - and I think the Deity of Jesus is one of them. Does that mean that I think you are lost? No, not necessarily, but again this is a major doctrine.
By the way, if I didn't think I had the truth, I would believe something else, right?
Do you think I am lost?

I honestly think that I don't have "the truth", and that no church or religious community has "the truth".
I think that only God has the truth.

Now, I also think you and I and everyone in this Forum has ENOUGH truth as to come to God, repent, and live a life of spiritual growth and discovery. That could be about 0.001% of the doctrinal truth, but for me it is enough, and a source of joy!

 

[101G]

That's only about the Father.

GINOLJC, to all
ERROR, Listen and Learn, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." is this the same person God ....... "AND" ....... the Father? or is this the same one person God, Matthew 4:7 "Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

Jesus denied being God in Matthew 12:31,32, clearly demonstrating that he is not the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
was the Son of Man THEN GLORIFIRD on EARTH at that TIME? NO, but is he NOW GLORIFIED as the SPIRIT? YES, supportive scripture, Matthew 19:28 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." so your statement is Null and Void, and reproved..

That's the Father, YHWH.

YHWH? let's see, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." Here the "LORD", all caps is the Father ... correct? and "my Lord" is the ONE who you IGNORANTLY calls the Son, for the Hebrew term for Lord here is,
H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.
Compare: H136

NOTE, THIS IS H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
now 4 verses later, Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath." here the same "Lord" in verse 1 is the same Lord. and here the "Lord" is the Hebrew term,
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

BINGO, definition #2. says the Lord in verse 1 is 2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel”NOTE. is says in definition #2 (person).... Hello, who is “Yahweh God of Israel” and is not .... as you said, YHWH is the Father....... (smile)....... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh how misinformed people are.

so all of your statement's above are reproved.

Now if you don't know what emphatic means, and How the Lord in verse 1 is YHWH, Just ask 101G....... (smile), and he will reveal it to you.

ye have not because ye ask NOT.

101G.

 

[dwight92070]

• 
  1.He was not unoriginated. Christ was the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16).
  2.He was not self-existent. “I live because of the Father” (John 6:57).
  3.He was not immortal. Jesus died and God resurrected Him (Acts 13:30).
  4.He was not all wise. Jesus “grew in wisdom” (Luke 2:52)
  5.He was not all-powerful. Christ said “the Son can do nothing by Himself” (John 5:19).
  6.He was not omnipresent. Jesus said after Lazarus died “I am glad I was not there” (John 11:15).
  
  [Dwight]
  
  This is so elementary. The truth of the Bible makes these 6 statements so easy to refute. We've covered all of these before. Repeating these lies won't make them true.
  
  John 1:1 shuts down all six of these lies.
  
  1. Of course the physical Jesus, who was called the Son of God, had a beginning - in Bethlehem. Nobody's denying that. Before that He was the eternal Word of God - unoriginated.
  
  2. The Word was God. God is self-existent. Jesus is the Word.
  
  3. The Word was God. He was immortal. The physical Jesus died, but His spirit is eternal.
  
  4. The Word was God, all wise. He "emptied Himself" of some knowledge when He became a man. Before He came to earth and when He left the earth, it appears He again was all wise.
  
  5. The Word was God, all powerful. Same answer as #4.
  
  6. The Word was God, omnipotent. Same answer as #4.

These are too easy.

 

[dwight92070]

I honestly think that I don't have "the truth", and that no church or religious community has "the truth".
I think that only God has the truth.

Now, I also think you and I and everyone in this Forum has ENOUGH truth as to come to God, repent, and live a life of spiritual growth and discovery. That could be about 0.001% of the doctrinal truth, but for me it is enough, and a source of joy!

I do not claim to have ALL the truth. but so far, what I believe, I think is true. I don't think it's necessary to repent for believing that. Why would it be? Jesus wants us to know the truth. If I thought I had ALL the truth, then yes, I would need to repent.

 

[mikesw]

I honestly think that I don't have "the truth", and that no church or religious community has "the truth".
I think that only God has the truth.

Now, I also think you and I and everyone in this Forum has ENOUGH truth as to come to God, repent, and live a life of spiritual growth and discovery. That could be about 0.001% of the doctrinal truth, but for me it is enough, and a source of joy!

So now you see part of the reason for recognizing the deity of Christ. He is the one who has shared the truth directly. That is what has made it so vital to listen and follow him. For someone like Peterlag or yourself, there is nothing to make Jesus important in our lives.

To add to this significance, there are 9 writers behind the New Testament books. These books/letters have endured 2000 years and also present confirmation of 100s of prophecies of the Old Testament. There are no other scriptures of such endurance and great testimony. Even the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed in accord with the timing of Daniel and the words of Jesus in Matthew 24.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I do not claim to have ALL the truth. but so far, what I believe, I think is true. I don't think it's necessary to repent for believing that. Why would it be? Jesus wants us to know the truth. If I thought I had ALL the truth, then yes, I would need to repent.

I agree with you, dwight.

 

[TomL]

So now you see part of the reason for recognizing the deity of Christ. He is the one who has shared the truth directly. That is what has made it so vital to listen and follow him. For someone like Peterlag or yourself, there is nothing to make Jesus important in our lives.

To add to this significance, there are 9 writers behind the New Testament books. These books/letters have endured 2000 years and also present confirmation of 100s of prophecies of the Old Testament. There are no other scriptures of such endurance and great testimony. Even the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed in accord with the timing of Daniel and the words of Jesus in Matthew 24.

John 1:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[Runningman]

John 1:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

It was delivered through Jesus because he's a prophet, but not because he invented the truth. The truth comes from the Father according to Scripture.

John 7
16“My teaching is not My own,” Jesus replied. “It comes from Him who sent Me.

John 8
40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.

 

[Runningman]

So now you see part of the reason for recognizing the deity of Christ. He is the one who has shared the truth directly. That is what has made it so vital to listen and follow him. For someone like Peterlag or yourself, there is nothing to make Jesus important in our lives.

To add to this significance, there are 9 writers behind the New Testament books. These books/letters have endured 2000 years and also present confirmation of 100s of prophecies of the Old Testament. There are no other scriptures of such endurance and great testimony. Even the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed in accord with the timing of Daniel and the words of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Yes, listen to Jesus absolutely. But you people take it wayyyyy too far. You all have turned a human being into your god and attach it to our Bible and say it's Christianity. It's certainly provocative and a stumbling block. On the matter of the truth, Jesus plainly pointed out that he is a man who God told the truth to. Jesus' God is not himself. When Jesus speaks of God he's talking about the Father.

 

[TomL]

It was delivered through Jesus because he's a prophet, but not because he invented the truth. The truth comes from the Father according to Scripture.

John 7
16“My teaching is not My own,” Jesus replied. “It comes from Him who sent Me.

John 8
40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.

What did Jesus say?

John 6:52–53 (KJV 1900) — 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

 

[Runningman]

What did Jesus say?

John 6:52–53 (KJV 1900) — 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Great. Jesus said a lot of other things, too. What do you believe Jesus meant by what you quoted from John 6:52-53?

 

[TomL]

Great. Jesus said a lot of other things, too. What do you believe Jesus meant by what you quoted from John 6:52-53?

Answer the question first

Have you eaten his flesh and drank his blood

 

[Peterlag]

These are too easy.

Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.