The Trinity The Touchstone of Truth

here is that teaching. Genesis 49:8 "Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee." Genesis 49:9 "Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?" Genesis 49:10 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Genesis 49:11 "Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ***'s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:" Genesis 49:12 "His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk."
Shiloh: H7886 שִׁילֹה Shiyloh (shee-lo') n/p.
1. tranquil.
2. Shiloh, an epithet of the Messiah.
[from H7951]
KJV: Shiloh.
Root(s): H7951

and is it not the RISEN MESSIAH that brings salvation? now let's see this teaching clearly in the OT. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." is not his "OWN ARM" him? yes, now read Isaiah chapter 53 and see who is HIS, HIS, HIS, Own ARM........ :cool:

101G.
I have been doing this for a long time and therefore am an expert at it. But I have never came across folks like you who post stuff that I don't even understand your point and then you say I refuse to commit. There is no teaching on the trinity. None in the Old or the New Testament. Teachings!!! Not a verse here or a verse there that is twisted out of context. Whole chapters teaching that Jesus is God. There's none.
 
I have been doing this for a long time and therefore am an expert at it. But I have never came across folks like you who post stuff that I don't even understand your point and then you say I refuse to commit. There is no teaching on the trinity. None in the Old or the New Testament. Teachings!!! Not a verse here or a verse there that is twisted out of context. Whole chapters teaching that Jesus is God. There's none.
Doing something for a long time does it make you an expert at it. It's possible you've been doing it wrong for a long time. Thinking you're an expert in your own mind is called pride. That's a sin.

The sin of pride is a heart attitude expressed in an unhealthy, exaggerated attention to self and an elevated view of one’s abilities, accomplishments, position, or possessions. Pride has been called “the cancer of the soul, “the beginning of all sin,” and “sin in its final form.” Ten Hebrew words and two Greek words are generally used in the Bible to refer to it. Pride, in its sinful form, is the direct opposite of humility, a trait that is highly praised and rewarded by God.
 
“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15, KJV)

Trinitarians would love it if this scripture read this way instead:

“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15, KJV)
 
Doing something for a long time does it make you an expert at it. It's possible you've been doing it wrong for a long time. Thinking you're an expert in your own mind is called pride. That's a sin.

The sin of pride is a heart attitude expressed in an unhealthy, exaggerated attention to self and an elevated view of one’s abilities, accomplishments, position, or possessions. Pride has been called “the cancer of the soul, “the beginning of all sin,” and “sin in its final form.” Ten Hebrew words and two Greek words are generally used in the Bible to refer to it. Pride, in its sinful form, is the direct opposite of humility, a trait that is highly praised and rewarded by God.
My point is I have been doing this a long time and that is me telling the truth. I am also an expert on this subject and that is also me telling the truth. Should I lie and say I have only been doing this for a short period of time or that I don't know much about the subject? And neither of the two above statements was my point. The point is I don't understand the point some are trying to make. They post 12 verses and ask if I agree with them. Which of the 12 is my point?
 
“The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). This verse clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. One of many Bible verses.

The names of God are often applied to Jesus. He is called "the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father" and "Immanuel" (meaning "God with us"). Elsewhere Jesus is called "The Lord (Jehovah) our Righteousness," "God" and "Son of God."

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 4:15

Your proof text proves the Trinity because God the holy spirit is who dwells in the believer.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the action by which God takes up permanent residence in the body of a believer in Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament, the Spirit would come and go from the saints, empowering them for service but not necessarily remaining with them (see Judges 15:14; 1 Chronicles 12:18; Psalm 51:11; Ezekiel 11:5). Jesus revealed to His disciples the new role the Spirit of Truth would play in their lives: “He lives with you and will be in you” (John 14:17). The apostle Paul wrote, “Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies” (1 Corinthians 6:19–20).

These verses are telling us that the believer in Jesus Christ has the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, living in him. When an individual accepts Christ as personal Savior, the Holy Spirit gives the believer the life of God, eternal life, which is really His very nature (Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:4), and the Holy Spirit comes to live within him spiritually. The fact that the believer’s body is likened to a temple where the Holy Spirit lives helps us understand what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is all about. The word temple is used to describe the Holy of Holies, the inner sanctum in the Old Testament tabernacle structure. There, God’s presence would appear in a cloud and meet the high priest, who came once a year into the Holy of Holies. On the Day of Atonement, the high priest brought the blood of a slain animal and sprinkled it on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant. On this special day, God granted forgiveness to the priest and His people.

Today, there is no Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and the animal sacrifices have ceased. The believer in Christ has become the inner sanctum of God the Holy Spirit, as the believer has been sanctified and forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:7). The believer in Christ becomes the habitation of the Holy Spirit of God. In fact, Scripture also says that the believer is indwelt spiritually by Christ (Colossians 1:27) and by God the Father (1 John 4:15)—the Trinity is involved.

As the Holy Spirit lives in the believer, He brings about some life-changing results:

1) The indwelling Spirit comes to a soul dead in sin and creates new life (Titus 3:5). This is the new birth Jesus spoke of in John 3:1–8.

2) The indwelling Spirit confirms to the believer that he belongs to the Lord and is an heir of God and fellow-heir with Christ (Romans 8:15–17).

3) The indwelling Spirit installs the new believer as a member of Christ’s universal church. This is the baptism of the Spirit, according to 1 Corinthians 12:13.

4) The indwelling Spirit gives spiritual gifts (God-given abilities for service) to the believer to edify the church and serve the Lord effectively for His glory (1 Corinthians 12:11).

5) The indwelling Spirit helps the believer understand and apply the Scripture to his daily life (1 Corinthians 2:12).

6) The indwelling Spirit enriches the believer’s prayer life and intercedes for him in prayer (Romans 8:26–27).

7) The indwelling Holy Spirit empowers the yielded believer to live for Christ to do His will (Galatians 5:16). The Spirit leads the believer in paths of righteousness (Romans 8:14).

8) The indwelling Spirit gives evidence of new life by producing the fruit of the Spirit in the believer’s life (Galatians 5:22–23).

9) The indwelling Spirit is grieved when the believer sins (Ephesians 4:30), and He convicts the believer to confess his sin to the Lord so that fellowship is restored (1 John 1:9).

10) The indwelling Spirit seals the believer unto the day of redemption so that the believer’s arrival in the Lord’s presence is guaranteed after this life (Ephesians 1:13–14).

When you accept Christ as your Savior (Romans 10:9–13), the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart, bringing with Him an entirely new life of love, relationship, and service to the Lord.
GOT?
 
My point is I have been doing this a long time and that is me telling the truth. I am also an expert on this subject and that is also me telling the truth. Should I lie and say I have only been doing this for a short period of time or that I don't know much about the subject? And neither of the two above statements was my point. The point is I don't understand the point some are trying to make. They post 12 verses and ask if I agree with them. Which of the 12 is my point?
That's right you got to tell it like it is. When my wife asks me if I know what I'm doing I always answer "I got this, I'm a highly trained professional."
Her answer is always "Yeah right."
 
That's right you got to tell it like it is. When my wife asks me if I know what I'm doing I always answer "I got this, I'm a highly trained professional."
Her answer is always "Yeah right."
So then don't seek out experts in their field. If you need an operation. Don't look for an experienced Doc who thinks he's a professional. Look for a cab driver.
 
“The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). This verse clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. One of many Bible verses.

The Word was not Jesus.

The Word is God’s communication.

That communication became flesh in the words that Jesus spoke:

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” (John 12:49, KJV)
 
ONLY JESUS? No Way!

In the 3RD century, Sabellius, a Libyan priest living in Rome, taught that God is a single person with different titles—known as modalism. Thus, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit represent different hats or titles that God wears, depending on how He wishes to communicate with man at the time. It’s akin to water, which can take on the form of a solid, liquid, or gas.

However, they are not three roles played by one person. The church recognized Sabellius’ ideas as contrary to Bible teaching, and he was quickly excommunicated. Yet he still has adherents today in what is commonly known as the “Oneness” or “Jesus Only” doctrine. The Jesus Only teaching claims that Jesus Christ is not only the Son, but also the Father and the Holy Spirit. Isaiah 9:6, in which the Messiah (or the promised Son) is called “The everlasting Father,” is used to provide biblical support for this belief.

The Oneness doctrine, however, overlooks the fact that the Son came to earth to reveal the true character of God the Father to a world groping in spiritual blindness. Jesus prayed to His Father in Gethsemane, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world” (John 17:5, 6). Jesus is the only one who could reveal the Father, because He is the express image of the Father (Luke 10:22; Hebrews 1:3).

Thus when the disciples asked Christ what the Father was like, He could say, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9). Jesus so mirrored the character of the Father that He perfectly reflected Him, hence the title “The Everlasting Father.” Another reason Jesus is called the Everlasting Father is because this world and everything in it was created through Christ. So in a very real sense, Jesus is our father (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:3).

Isaiah 9:6 is the only place in the Bible where Jesus is called the Father. Keep in mind that Jesus also calls Himself the Son of man, our brother, our shepherd, our friend, and our priest. To build a doctrine on one Scripture is as foolish as building a house on top of a single fence post. The Bible physically separates the Father and the Son repeatedly. While Christ was on earth, He referred to His Father in heaven. “My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32). He always directed His prayers heavenward to the Father and stated that the Father had His own individual will; “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done” (Luke 22:42). “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit” (Luke 23:46). Then after He died and rose again, He ascended to “the right hand of God” (Romans 8:34). This indicates the Father has a separate presence.

In fact, Jesus said that He wasn’t the Father more than 80 times. While always remaining one in purpose and origin, Jesus and the Father are clearly separate and distinct persons. And on more than one occasion, the Father spoke to Jesus from heaven. “And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, ‘This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased’ ” (Matthew 3:17 NKJV). Either Jesus and the Father are two separate individual persons, or Jesus was an expert ventriloquist


Doug Batchelor, The Trinity
 
“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15, KJV)

Trinitarians would love it if this scripture read this way instead:

“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15, KJV)

Joel 2:32
32
"And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;

For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.


Once again we see Paul quote another OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

hope this helps !!!
 
we see Paul quote another OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus

Yet Paul never wrote “Jesus is God” in plain terms.

Neither does he warn against defending the notion that Jesus is God.

It’s all assumptions and speculations on the part of the cult of trinitarianism.
 
Yet Paul never wrote “Jesus is God” in plain terms.

Neither does he warn against defending the notion that Jesus is God.

It’s all assumptions and speculations on the part of the cult of trinitarianism.
The Father never says “ I Am God “ either .

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The doctrine of the Trinity is foundational to the Christian faith and to Christian living, since knowing God is at the heart of biblical religion and God is fully revealed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one true and living God eternally exists in three distinct yet inseparable persons.
 
The doctrine of the Trinity is foundational to the Christian faith and to Christian living

If this were true there be scriptures plainly teaching the Trinity.

What is foundational is this doctrine:

“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15, KJV)
 
If this were true there be scriptures plainly teaching the Trinity.

What is foundational is this doctrine:

“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15, KJV)
The scriptures do plainly teach the trinity. Jesus is God in In human flesh. He's the God Man. God dwells in US in the person of the holy spirit.

Emmanuel God with us. Emmanuel, also called Christ, changed the world. In that moment when God became flesh, humanity watched prophecies unfold as hope was born. Jesus, our Emmanuel, provided hope that sin and death wouldn’t always win and mankind wouldn’t always feel so painfully alone.

The Old Testament prophesied about the cross.
Genesis 22:8 God provided himself (Jesus) as a sacrifice.
 
Like I said : the “ Father “ never said “ I Am God”

Hope this helps !!!

“…God said unto him, I am God Almighty…” (Genesis 35:11, KJV)

This “God” in the quoted scripture above isn’t the Father?

Is that how far you will go to defend an unbiblical doctrine?

Did not God speak through his inspired writers?
 
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