The Trinity and the Incarnation

[amazing grace]

The pre-existing One is seen interacting with saints of old.

If in saying "the preexisting One" you are referring to Jesus. He did not literally preexist.
If you are speaking of God himself then yes he did interact with his people.

Not every angelic appearance is thought to be this One who became incarnate.

NO angelic appearance is God Himself but they are sent by God to act on God's behalf.

We see runningman making the error that, despite the wording of key passages, no angelic appearance was this One who became incarnate as Jesus. If we are recognizing scripture testimony, we have the likely answer what he was doing.

God did not become a human being.

Jesus was not God clothed in flesh . . . incarnate.

In his preexistent state, Jesus was God, a spirit being and in the preexistent state he often came back and forth to earth as an angel?

IOW, God became flesh AS Jesus, a man.
God, a self existent, immortal being was born, an immortal being died and God raised himself from the dead again becoming a spirit being. . . . Is that about how you see it?

Then how do you read this since you have Jesus being spiritual first then natural then spiritual again?

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, and there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam was made a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural; and then the spiritual. 1 Cor. 15

 

[civic]

He does have a human father and mother, but his genealogy was lost. Unless you're saying Jesus doesn't have a mother and father contrary to Scripture stating that he does.

it says his genealogoy was lost ? can you quote the passage in scripture that says it was lost ? thanks

 

[amazing grace]

Spot on.

Posted are the various recognizable translations and not one of them say "AN" ... most say "the" , a couple like the Niv and ESV say "our". Only the Lamsa and Aramaic Bibles say "this apostle" Kind of like an? See below" But that should influence no one as 99 and 44/100% people on here avoid the Aramaic translation like the are the plague.

New International Version
Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest.

English Standard Version
Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, set your focus on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, carefully consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

King James Bible
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

New King James Version
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession: Jesus;

NASB 1995
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession;

NASB 1977
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession.

Legacy Standard Bible
Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession—Jesus,

Amplified Bible
Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, [thoughtfully and attentively] consider the Apostle and High Priest whom we confessed [as ours when we accepted Him as Savior], namely, Jesus;

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, holy brothers and companions in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession;

American Standard Version
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus;

Contemporary English Version
My friends, God has chosen you to be his holy people. So think about Jesus, the one we call our apostle and high priest!

English Revised Version
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Brothers and sisters, you are holy partners in a heavenly calling. So look carefully at Jesus, the apostle and chief priest about whom we make our declaration of faith.

International Standard Version
Therefore, holy brothers, partners in a heavenly calling, keep your focus on Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession.

NET Bible
Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, partners in a heavenly calling, take note of Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess,

New Heart English Bible
Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus;

Webster's Bible Translation
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Weymouth New Testament
Therefore, holy brethren, sharers with others in a heavenly invitation, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest whose followers we profess to be.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, set your focus on Jesus Christ, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

World English Bible
Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession: Jesus,
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
For this reason, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and Chief Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, carefully consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

Young's Literal Translation
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the apostle and chief priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,

New American Bible
Therefore, holy “brothers,” sharing in a heavenly calling, reflect on Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

New Revised Standard Version
Therefore, brothers and sisters, holy partners in a heavenly calling, consider that Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
FROM henceforth, O my holy brethren, called by a call from heaven, look to this Apostle and High Priest of our faith, Jesus Christ:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Therefore my holy brethren, who are called with a calling from Heaven, consider This Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Yeshua The Messiah,

NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

Godbey New Testament
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our profession;

Haweis New Testament
WHEREFORE, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, contemplate the apostle and high-priest whom ye confess, Jesus Christ;

Mace New Testament
Wherefore, christian brethren, you who are called to an heavenly inheritance, consider the apostle and high priest of the faith we profess, even Christ Jesus;

Weymouth New Testament
Therefore, holy brethren, sharers with others in a heavenly invitation, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest whose followers we profess to be.

Worrell New Testament
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a Heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus,

Worsley New Testament
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high-priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

So, those verses in calling Jesus the apostle mean that he wasn't an apostle?

John 20:21 εἶπεν οὖν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς πάλιν Εἰρήνη ὑμῖν· καθὼς ἀπέσταλκέν με ὁ πατήρ κἀγὼ πέμπω ὑμᾶς
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me (apostellō) even so I am sending you.”
apostello - This word is the root of the term "apostle," which means "one who is sent".

God sent Jesus via conception and birth to accomplish His purpose and mission . . . . Jesus sent out the 12 to accomplish his purpose and mission and NOW the church, the body of Christ are ambassadors for Christ and 'are sent' on the behalf of Christ to reconcile others to God . . . . We all have the same mission - Jesus came to reconcile others to God; he sent out the 12 to continue the mission of reconciling other to God and we also are to continue in that mission of reconciling others to God.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Jesus was an ambassador for the gospel since Jesus didn't create the gospel. The Bible says Jesus got his teachings from the Father about what to say (John 8:28) and Jesus said his teachings are his not his own in John 7:16.

You seem to have difficulty with this from time to time... let me try to help you understand.


As we know from John 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

This is Jesus saying plainly that what He teaches did not originate independently from Himself but came from the Father.

Do you understand why.

The first and most simple way to know the meaning is that it was God the Father who in eternity past mad the plan.

If I can use this analogy..... God the Father. The very Holy Elohim was always, and still is, the quarterback and coach in ALL
THINGS FORWARD from Genesis one to where we are today and then til we remain no more and beyond.


When Jesus says as he does Jesus is explaining that while on earth, He did not speak on His own initiative. Everything He taught came directly from the Father. His words, His authority, and His message were given to Him by God.”

Going back to the football analogy God the Father as quarterback passed the football (necessary knowledge) on to Jesus and Jesus received and taught what He learned from Coach Elohim.

Why? This emphasizes dependence, obedience, and unity.

You, @Runningman seem to believe Jesus is subordinate to God:

You are wrong. Jesus is showing that He is the perfect representative and messenger of God. He doesn’t make up His own teachings ....He faithfully relays what God, The Father, gives Him.

See the following

John 7:16 — “My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.”

John 12:49–50 — Jesus says the Father commanded what He should say.

The Point Is : Jesus is God’s chosen, obedient Son and spokesman.

If you could understand what we KNOW....Jesus, speaking as the incarnate Son, humbly submits to the Father in His earthly mission. His receiving teaching from the Father reflects the relationship within the Godhead, not inferiority in nature.

As we see in...

Philippians 2:6–7 — the Son humbled Himself.

John 5:19 — the Son acts in perfect harmony with the Father.

AND THIS PROVES JESUS' SUBMISSION OF HIS ROLE , NOT AS AN INFERIOR BEING.

Absolutely no inferiority—it is the relationship within the Godhead

This teaches that Jesus’ message was not self-originated. He spoke only what the Father revealed to Him. His teaching carries divine authority because it was given directly by God.”

In a nutshell.....John 8:28 means Jesus didn’t come to deliver His own opinions ...He spoke exactly what the Father told Him. His message has divine authority because its source is the Father Himself.”

 

[FreeInChrist]

So, those verses in calling Jesus the apostle mean that he wasn't an apostle?

John 20:21 εἶπεν οὖν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς πάλιν Εἰρήνη ὑμῖν· καθὼς ἀπέσταλκέν με ὁ πατήρ κἀγὼ πέμπω ὑμᾶς
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me (apostellō) even so I am sending you.”
apostello - This word is the root of the term "apostle," which means "one who is sent".

God sent Jesus via conception and birth to accomplish His purpose and mission . . . . Jesus sent out the 12 to accomplish his purpose and mission and NOW the church, the body of Christ are ambassadors for Christ and 'are sent' on the behalf of Christ to reconcile others to God . . . . We all have the same mission - Jesus came to reconcile others to God; he sent out the 12 to continue the mission of reconciling other to God and we also are to continue in that mission of reconciling others to God.

Oy veh....

The point of those verses was to say Jesus was "THE" apostle Not "AN' as in one of many. or THIS as the Aramaic scriptures say as This one would mean one of many.

Why would Paul be made an apostle and a pretty darn important one at that.

Paul is referred to as the apostle to the Gentiles in Romans 11:13, where he states, "I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.

Jesus is called Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

Jesus is called the "apostle" in Hebrews 3:1 because he is viewed as God's envoy or messenger, sent to convey divine teachings and fulfill the mission of salvation. This title emphasizes his unique role in representing God and establishing the foundation of the Christian faith

The word apostle means “one who is sent out.”

Wiki says ...An apostle, in its literal sense, is an emissary. The word is derived from Ancient Greek ἀπόστολος, literally "one who is sent off", itself derived from the verb ἀποστέλλειν, "to send off". The purpose of such sending off is usually to convey a message, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation; other common translations include "ambassador" and "envoy"

So Paul was given a mission... i.e. sent out... by God for the Gentiles.

Jesus otoh, was given a mission... then he was also dent out ... as God's emissary for the whole world... starting with the lost sheep of Israel.

He could not have been AN Apostle... none in that group would God the Father use for the beginning and completion of His plan. Can you imagine us being taught by Judas?

Amen, amen

 

[civic]

Oy veh....View attachment 2641

The point of those verses was to say Jesus was "THE" apostle Not "AN' as in one of many. or THIS as the Aramaic scriptures say as This one would mean one of many.

Why would Paul be made an apostle and a pretty darn important one at that.

Paul is referred to as the apostle to the Gentiles in Romans 11:13, where he states, "I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.

Jesus is called Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

Jesus is called the "apostle" in Hebrews 3:1 because he is viewed as God's envoy or messenger, sent to convey divine teachings and fulfill the mission of salvation. This title emphasizes his unique role in representing God and establishing the foundation of the Christian faith

The word apostle means “one who is sent out.”

Wiki says ...An apostle, in its literal sense, is an emissary. The word is derived from Ancient Greek ἀπόστολος, literally "one who is sent off", itself derived from the verb ἀποστέλλειν, "to send off". The purpose of such sending off is usually to convey a message, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation; other common translations include "ambassador" and "envoy"

So Paul was given a mission... i.e. sent out... by God for the Gentiles.

Jesus otoh, was given a mission... then he was also dent out ... as God's emissary for the whole world... starting with the lost sheep of Israel.

He could not have been AN Apostle... none in that group would God the Father use for the beginning and completion of His plan. Can you imagine us being taught by Judas?

Amen, amen

Yes kind of like in the same way He is The LORD not a lord.

The devaluing of our One Lord, One Savior, One God.

The Son is no more a lord as the Father is a lord. Both are LORD. - Both are GOD !

Can we get an Amen. this morning !!!!

Hallelujah !!!

PTL !!!

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes kind of like in the same way He is The LORD not a lord.

The devaluing of our One Lord, One Savior, One God.

The Son is no more a lord as the Father is a lord. Both are LORD. - Both are GOD !

Can we get an Amen. this morning !!!!

Hallelujah !!!

PTL !!!

Amen , amen

Well put.

 

[amazing grace]

Oy veh....View attachment 2641

don't, just don't make it seem as IF I am the one who is seemingly not understanding here.
As anyone who can read and understand - below you are basically saying everything I said. Why argue over AN and THE when Jesus was SENT BY GOD.

The point of those verses was to say Jesus was "THE" apostle Not "AN' as in one of many. or THIS as the Aramaic scriptures say as This one would mean one of many.

This is what I asked: So, those verses in calling Jesus the apostle mean that he wasn't an apostle?
Apparently you think it is a huge difference.

Why would Paul be made an apostle and a pretty darn important one at that.

Paul is referred to as the apostle to the Gentiles in Romans 11:13, where he states, "I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.

Yes, Paul said of himself that he was the apostle to the Gentiles. Jesus chose and sent Paul to the Gentiles = apostle.

Jesus is called Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

Jesus is called the "apostle" in Hebrews 3:1 because he is viewed as God's envoy or messenger, sent to convey divine teachings and fulfill the mission of salvation. This title emphasizes his unique role in representing God and establishing the foundation of the Christian faith

The word apostle means “one who is sent out.”

duh . . . I believe that is what I said. See below------

John 20:21 εἶπεν οὖν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς πάλιν Εἰρήνη ὑμῖν· καθὼς ἀπέσταλκέν με ὁ πατήρ κἀγὼ πέμπω ὑμᾶς
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me (apostellō) even so I am sending you.”
apostello - This word is the root of the term "apostle," which means "one who is sent".

Wiki says ...An apostle, in its literal sense, is an emissary. The word is derived from Ancient Greek ἀπόστολος, literally "one who is sent off", itself derived from the verb ἀποστέλλειν, "to send off". The purpose of such sending off is usually to convey a message, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation; other common translations include "ambassador" and "envoy"

So Paul was given a mission... i.e. sent out... by God for the Gentiles.

Yes, Paul was given a mission - he was sent out by Jesus to the Gentiles.

Jesus otoh, was given a mission... then he was also dent out ... as God's emissary for the whole world... starting with the lost sheep of Israel.

He could not have been AN Apostle... none in that group would God the Father use for the beginning and completion of His plan. Can you imagine us being taught by Judas?

Amen, amen

Yes, Jesus was given a mission - he was sent out by God (also what I said) for the whole world.
He was SENT OUT by GOD with the specific authority and endorsement of God, the sender, and Jesus ACTED as GOD'S personal representative.

[An apostle: Implies being sent with the specific authority and endorsement of the sender, acting as their personal representative.
An emissary: A broader term for any messenger or agent sent on a mission, often for diplomatic or religious purposes. - AI]

Jesus chose the twelve disciples/apostles. There is no need to 'imagine' being taught by Judas - we would never be taught by Judas - he failed - he became a traitor.

 

[amazing grace]

Yes kind of like in the same way He is The LORD not a lord.

The devaluing of our One Lord, One Savior, One God.

The Son is no more a lord as the Father is a lord. Both are LORD. - Both are GOD !

Can we get an Amen. this morning !!!!

Hallelujah !!!

PTL !!!

The tears God must be shedding . . . . HE, the omnipotent, omniscient, immutable, immortal, impassible, uncreated, self existent LORD God Almighty being demoted to a mortal human being.

As HIS Son is being devalued in all that he accomplished for the salvation of humanity . . . his obedience, his humbleness, his suffering, his humiliation, his death, his resurrection to eternal life ---- all for us. Jesus didn't have to do it . . . He could have chosen HIS WILL which we get a glimpse of when he was in the garden praying to God his Father -YET HE SUBMITTED HIS WILL to that of God's.

Let's give praise to God the Father for sending his human, mortal Son to endure the penalty that we owed to God - the wages of sin is death. And through what Jesus did we receive the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Let us honor the Father as we honor the Son. . . that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

The LORD is Yahweh, the LORD God Almighty ---- The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen and Amen.

 

[civic]

The tears God must be shedding . . . . HE, the omnipotent, omniscient, immutable, immortal, impassible, uncreated, self existent LORD God Almighty being demoted to a mortal human being.

As HIS Son is being devalued in all that he accomplished for the salvation of humanity . . . his obedience, his humbleness, his suffering, his humiliation, his death, his resurrection to eternal life ---- all for us. Jesus didn't have to do it . . . He could have chosen HIS WILL which we get a glimpse of when he was in the garden praying to God his Father -YET HE SUBMITTED HIS WILL to that of God's.

Let's give praise to God the Father for sending his human, mortal Son to endure the penalty that we owed to God - the wages of sin is death. And through what Jesus did we receive the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Let us honor the Father as we honor the Son. . . that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

The LORD is Yahweh, the LORD God Almighty ---- The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen and Amen.

That is the biblical narrative from Genesis through Revelation. God would become man which is the only way the sacrifice for sin can be universal and for all humankind. It was the solution to the problem of sin.

And yes God wept, God was hurt, disappointed, longsuffering etc...... at the rebellion, idolatry and harlotry of His people He called to the covenant with Him. All day long He called out to a disobedient and unfaithful people. As a mother hen would gather her chicks so to did God desire to gather them but they would not come.

What bible are you reading anyways ?

It doesn't sound much like the one I read and the narrative in all 66 books.

 

[amazing grace]

That is the biblical narrative from Genesis through Revelation. God would become man which is the only way the sacrifice for sin can be universal and for all humankind. It was the solution to the problem of sin.

God would become a man? This is a prophecy about God becoming the offspring of the woman?
Genesis 3:15 - "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” It sounds to me as if God is speaking of someone other than himself.
“The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me (Moses) from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— . . . . I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him." [Deut. 18] It sounds to me as if God is speaking of someone other than himself ---- someone like Moses, a human being. We better listen to what JESUS says for he speaks in the name of God, with the authority of God! He comes in the name of God . . Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!
It sounds to me as if God is speaking of someone other than himself, etc., etc., etc.

And yes God wept, God was hurt, disappointed, longsuffering etc...... at the rebellion, idolatry and harlotry of His people He called to the covenant with Him. All day long He called out to a disobedient and unfaithful people. As a mother hen would gather her chicks so to did God desire to gather them but they would not come.

Yep, idolatry is still goes on today - people worshiping material things and even others AS God or in place of God.

Yes, Jesus was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief . . . . we esteemed him not and Jesus longed to gather the children of Israel together as a hen gathers her brood but they were not willing. . . . they did not believe he was who he said he was - the Christ, the Lord's Christ.

What bible are you reading anyways ?

It doesn't sound much like the one I read and the narrative in all 66 books.

I mainly use the ESV but I also enjoy the KJV.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@amazing grace

Leave what you have read on here all these years out of it.

Leave what you perceive the Holy Book to say out of it.

Why is it you can not understand that the Father did not become the son because when yo say things like

"God would become a man? This is a prophecy about God becoming the offspring of the woman?"

That is what you understand.

Why is it that when you read the term Godhead, found in multiple translations NONE CATHOLIC...especially the KJV
you do not know it means

"

1. Divinity; godhood.
2. The Christian God, especially the Trinity.
3. The essential and divine nature of God, regarded abstractly.

Or do you think it means the result of smoking whatever?

Why is it that you cannot understand that when trinity believers speak of the Trinity we are saying

God in 3 persons... blessed Trinity.

You do know that the word Trinity means 3?

YOU think God came and was born of a woman.... Maybe He split like an amoeba to be two in one....

When Jesus was baptized the voice that came from above... that said "This is my son... yada yada... " maybe you think
that came from a ventriloquist in the crowd.?

You want to be a one only believer, then do it... and by that I means stop with all the derogatory comments about the Father and leave Jesus out of the mix.

Reporting myself

 

[amazing grace]

@amazing grace

Leave what you have read on here all these years out of it.

Leave what you perceive the Holy Book to say out of it.

Why is it you can not understand that the Father did not become the son because when yo say things like

"God would become a man? This is a prophecy about God becoming the offspring of the woman?"

That is what you understand.

Here's the thing ---- It is claimed that 'Jesus is God incarnate'.
OR the 'word' was God, the 'word' became flesh, i.e. - God became flesh AS the man Jesus.
NOW: in John 1:1 who is the 'God' being spoken of? Isn't it the Father that the word was with?

@civic - said: "That is the biblical narrative from Genesis through Revelation. God would become man which is the only way the sacrifice for sin can be universal and for all humankind. It was the solution to the problem of sin."

So, I questioned it . . . . following the 'so-called' logic here: Jesus was the Son of God and Jesus was the offspring of the woman in Genesis - IF JESUS IS GOD then the conclusion would be: "God would become a man? This is a prophecy about God becoming the offspring of the woman?" And that is how I come up with the questions I do . . . I want SOMEONE ANYONE to recognize that something ain't right here!!!

Anyway, it's too hard to leave out what I have read on this forum and even what I knew as a Trinitarian.
It is the Trinitarian doctrine that is the basis for this premise.
Can you not understand how I draw the conclusions that I do?

Why is it that when you read the term Godhead, found in multiple translations NONE CATHOLIC...especially the KJV
you do not know it means

1. Divinity; godhood.
2. The Christian God, especially the Trinity.
3. The essential and divine nature of God, regarded abstractly.

Or do you think it means the result of smoking whatever?

Your criticism of me is noted . . . no it is not the result of smoking.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. - theios - godlike, divine, godhead
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: theiotes - divinity, divine nature
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. theotes -divinity
I know what I believe it means - mainly the 'divine nature' which it is sometimes translated.
I think I know but what do you believe it to mean?

Why is it that you cannot understand that when trinity believers speak of the Trinity we are saying

God in 3 persons... blessed Trinity.

You do know that the word Trinity means 3?

I was once a Trinitarian - I KNOW what you are saying.
You have 3 persons in one essence = 3 persons who are one God = 3 who's in one what = God.
Yes, I know the word Trinity means 3 - tri = three; having three - which is why the belief is not monotheist - the belief in the existence of one single all-powerful God. (uni one; having or consisting of one.)
One does not mean three nor does three mean one.

YOU think God came and was born of a woman.... Maybe He split like an amoeba to be two in one....

NO, I DO NOT THINK God came and was born of a woman - I am not the one saying that the 'word' became flesh as Jesus, i.e. God became flesh AS Jesus. I'm not the one saying Jesus is God AT ALL!
I believe an actual mortal human being was conceived and born and have said so many times. Again, I am just trying to follow (Trinitarians collectively) YOUR logic.

When Jesus was baptized the voice that came from above... that said "This is my son... yada yada... " maybe you think
that came from a ventriloquist in the crowd.?

No, since I don't believe Jesus is God I actually believe the voice belonged to God, the Father of Jesus who was pleased with his human Son.

You want to be a one only believer, then do it... and by that I means stop with all the derogatory comments about the Father and leave Jesus out of the mix.

Reporting myself

Thank you.
I really don't believe I have made any derogatory comments about God the Father but if you think I have then you need to point them out to me. I ask questions - I ask questions to hopefully get people to THINK, to reason. The questions I ask are in line and refer to what has been said directly in the post that I am responding to.

Must I not take care to speak what the LORD puts in my mouth? [Numbers 23:12]

And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, saying, We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and you intend to bring this man's blood upon us. But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men. . . . [Acts 5:27-29]

 

[charismaticlady]

He does have a human father and mother, but his genealogy was lost. Unless you're saying Jesus doesn't have a mother and father contrary to Scripture stating that he does.

I believe Melchizedek was a theophany of Jesus who at that time was "the Word."

 

[charismaticlady]

swearing: "the use of language regarded as coarse, blasphemous, or otherwise unacceptable in polite or formal speech in order to express anger or other strong emotion."

No, I did not swear - I quoted where the 'man' that wrestled with Jacob was said to be an 'angel' in Hosea. Angels did appear as men, made themselves visible, when it was necessary.

Genesis 32 shows that sometimes an "angel" is no ordinary created angel. It is God. That is why the "Angel of the Lord" allowed worship and was identified as God in Exodus 3.

22 And he arose that night and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven sons, and crossed over the ford of Jabbok. 23 He took them, sent them over the brook, and sent over what he had. 24 Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. 25 Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was out of joint as He wrestled with him. 26 And He said, “Let Me go, for the day breaks.”

But he said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!”

27 So He said to him, “What is your name?”

He said, “Jacob.”

28 And He said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.”

29 Then Jacob asked, saying, “Tell me Your name, I pray.”

And He said, “Why is it that you ask about My name?” And He blessed him there.

30So Jacob called the name of the place “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

 

[amazing grace]

Genesis 32 shows that sometimes an "angel" is no ordinary created angel. It is God. That is why the "Angel of the Lord" allowed worship and was identified as God in Exodus 3.

22 And he arose that night and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven sons, and crossed over the ford of Jabbok. 23 He took them, sent them over the brook, and sent over what he had. 24 Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. 25 Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was out of joint as He wrestled with him. 26 And He said, “Let Me go, for the day breaks.”

But he said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!”

27 So He said to him, “What is your name?”

He said, “Jacob.”

28 And He said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.”

29 Then Jacob asked, saying, “Tell me Your name, I pray.”

And He said, “Why is it that you ask about My name?” And He blessed him there.

30So Jacob called the name of the place “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

I am well aware and have read and understand the record in Genesis 32 regarding Jacob and his wrestling the 'man' which Hosea 12:3,4 says was an angel. I will believe what the scripture says.

Jacob knew he had not literally seen the LORD God, the creator of the heavens and earth, but rather that he had seen and wrestled with the one sent by the LORD, in this case, an angel (Hos. 12:4). The angel AS God’s representative, AS God's agent, and in accordance with the culture (understanding the Jewish Law of Agency) and language of scripture, God’s representative could be referred to as “God.”

That's all I can say on the matter.

 

[Runningman]

it says his genealogoy was lost ? can you quote the passage in scripture that says it was lost ? thanks

With Jews being as meticulous about genealogy, tribes, and lineage as they were for them to not have the genealogy of an important person like Melchizedek means it was lost. Do you also think Melchizedek was not a human and had no father or mother like @charismaticlady does? At least my view is sensible. Where did you all get that idea?

 

[civic]

With Jews being as meticulous about genealogy, tribes, and lineage as they were for them to not have the genealogy of an important person like Melchizedek means it was lost. Do you also think Melchizedek was not a human and had no father or mother like @charismaticlady does? At least my view is sensible. Where did you all get that idea?

It means exactly what the Bible states there was none because one did not exist since he had no parents.

Next strawman

 

[amazing grace]

It means exactly what the Bible states there was none because one did not exist since he had no parents.

Next strawman

Melchizedek was an actually Biblical figure, a real human being, the king of Salem and priest of the Most High God. Thus being an actual human being he had to have a mother and a father.

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (He was priest of God Most High.) And he blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!" And Abram gave him a tenth of everything. [Gen. 14]

'he is without father or mother genealogy having neither beginning of days nor end of life' is in reference to his priesthood, i.e. his priestly genealogy did not come from the tribe of Levi. All priests were chosen from the line of Aaron, the tribe of Levi, you know, the Levitical Priesthood. Melchizedek did not derive his priesthood from the Levites but was chosen by God (a priest of God Most High) just as Jesus did not derive his priesthood from the Levites but was chosen by God. Melchizedek had an earthly genealogy as did Jesus but their priesthood was not bound by earthly lineage.

where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. . . . [Hebrews 6:20] . . . . For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. For it is witnessed of him, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” [Hebrews 7:14-17]

Melchizedek was a 'type' of Christ, a foreshadowing of Christ. Hebrews 7:3 "without father, without mother, without genealogy," a description used to show that Jesus's priesthood is eternal and not bound by earthly lineage.

For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. [Hebrews 5:1]

hope this helps.

 

[charismaticlady]

God’s representative could be referred to as “God.”

That's your own understanding, but not what is true when taken in context of all Scripture. Pray and ask Jesus to wipe your mind clean of all human reasonings and ask Him to abide in you and teach you His meaning to His word. It could change your life.