The Trinity and the Incarnation

[charismaticlady]

I am well aware and have read and understand the record in Genesis 32 regarding Jacob and his wrestling the 'man' which Hosea 12:3,4 says was an angel. I will believe what the scripture says.

Jacob knew he had not literally seen the LORD God, the creator of the heavens and earth, but rather that he had seen and wrestled with the one sent by the LORD, in this case, an angel (Hos. 12:4). The angel AS God’s representative, AS God's agent, and in accordance with the culture (understanding the Jewish Law of Agency) and language of scripture, God’s representative could be referred to as “God.”

That's all I can say on the matter.

Even the translator recognized that the "angel" that fought with Jacob was God. Note the capital "A." Seems like you are trying to bring God down instead of recognizing the uniqueness of this particular Angel of the Lord, that God took the form of a man.

Hosea 12:
Yes, he struggled with the Angel and prevailed;
He wept, and sought favor from Him.

 

[amazing grace]

Even the translator recognized that the "angel" that fought with Jacob was God. Note the capital "A." Seems like you are trying to bring God down instead of recognizing the uniqueness of this particular Angel of the Lord, that God took the form of a man.

Hosea 12:
Yes, he struggled with the Angel and prevailed;
He wept, and sought favor from Him.

I don't know why this is bugging you so much. Yes, some translations capitalize 'Angel', a couple used Messenger, also capitalized and one translation had God's angel. The original biblical manuscripts were written in a script that is best described as all "caps," with no lowercase letters and often no spaces between words. Whether to leave a word capitalized was up to the transcriber as were spacing, sentence beginning and ending, punctuation, paragraphs, and chapters.

Oh no, I am keeping God in his exalted position as that of Almighty God never one of his created beings. The Angel of the LORD is just that an angel. Almighty God who said of himself that he wasn't a man in several places.

 

[FreeInChrist]

it says his genealogoy was lost ? can you quote the passage in scripture that says it was lost ? thanks

 

[FreeInChrist]

it says his genealogoy was lost ? can you quote the passage in scripture that says it was lost ? thanks

View attachment 2644

 

[civic]

View attachment 2644

Link did not work

 

[FreeInChrist]

Link did not work

Sorry.... It was eating popcorn and watching for replies.

 

[charismaticlady]

Sorry.... It was eating popcorn and watching for replies.

You read it wrong. It wasn't the person who was predestined, but whomever, anybody, who believed in God's Son was predestined to be conformed to be like Him. It was the conforming that is what was predestined.

For instance, poison is made to kill someone. If someone wants to die and drinks it they will die. But they weren't predestined to drink it. The result is what is predestined.

 

[Runningman]

It means exactly what the Bible states there was none because one did not exist since he had no parents.

Next strawman

Nope. Melchizedek is a human that Abraham met.

This store is not described like a spiritual lesson or parable. Mel was the king of Salem and a priest. God isn't a priest. God has priests, but God isn't Himself a priest.

Genesis 14
18Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine—since he was priest of God Most High — 19and he blessed Abram and said:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth,
20and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”

 

[charismaticlady]

Nope. Melchizedek is a human that Abraham met.

This store is not described like a spiritual lesson or parable. Mel was the king of Salem and a priest. God isn't a priest. God has priests, but God isn't Himself a priest.

Genesis 14
18Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine—since he was priest of God Most High — 19and he blessed Abram and said:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth,
20and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”

All humans have two human parents. If Melchizedek had none, that means He was God revealing Himself in the form of man. Of the Godhead, those OT sightings were Jesus before He became flesh and dwelt among us. We know that He was the Word of God, and it was Him who was the one of the godhead that could reveal Himself in the likeness of whatever He chose; even a burning bush and Melchizedek. This is also why Jesus is God because the Word was God. There are no such things as other gods, anymore than a baby-doll is a real baby. This is also why in heaven Jesus is also Melchizedek, our high priest.

 

[civic]

Melchizedek, whose name means “king of righteousness,” was a king of Salem (Jerusalem) and priest of the Most High God (Genesis 14:18–20; Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:6–11; 6:20—7:28). Melchizedek’s sudden appearance and disappearance in the book of Genesis is somewhat mysterious. Melchizedek and Abraham first met after Abraham’s defeat of Chedorlaomer and his three allies. Melchizedek presented bread and wine to Abraham and his weary men, demonstrating friendship. He bestowed a blessing on Abraham in the name of El Elyon(“God Most High”) and praised God for giving Abraham a victory in battle (Genesis 14:18–20).

Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the items he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than he.

In Psalm 110, a messianic psalm written by David (Matthew 22:43), Melchizedek is presented as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ’s new priesthood is superior to the old levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron (Hebrews 7:1–10).

Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, or a Christophany. This is a possible theory, especially given that Abraham received such a visit later, in Genesis 17—18, when Abraham saw and spoke with the Lord (Yahweh) in the form of a man.

Hebrews 6:20 says, “[Jesus] has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” This term order would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. None are ever mentioned, however, in the long interval from Melchizedek to Christ, an anomaly that can be solved by assuming that Melchizedek and Christ are really the same person. Thus the “order” is eternally vested in Him and Him alone.

Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” The question is whether the author of Hebrews means this actually or figuratively.

If the description in Hebrews is literal, then it is indeed difficult to see how it could be properly applied to anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. No mere earthly king “remains a priest forever,” and no mere human is “without father or mother.” If Genesis 14 describes a theophany, then God the Son came to give Abraham His blessing (Genesis 14:17–19), appearing as the King of Righteousness (Revelation 19:11,16), the King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), and the Mediator between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).

If the description of Melchizedek is figurative, then the details of having no genealogy, no beginning or ending, and a ceaseless ministry are simply statements accentuating the mysterious nature of the person who met Abraham. In this case, the silence in the Genesis account concerning these details is purposeful and better serves to link Melchizedek with Christ.

Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself. got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Runningman]

Now that I have proven Melchizedek is a human with an eternal priesthood, interested to see how you trins get yourself out of this one.

Genesis 14
18Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine—since he was priest of God Most High — 19and he blessed Abram and said:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth,
20and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”

 

[TomL]

Nope. Melchizedek is a human that Abraham met.

This store is not described like a spiritual lesson or parable. Mel was the king of Salem and a priest. God isn't a priest. God has priests, but God isn't Himself a priest.

Genesis 14
18Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine—since he was priest of God Most High — 19and he blessed Abram and said:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth,
20and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”

That would be an assumption as

Heb 2:17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession;
Heb 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus is indeed a priest, but not in the traditional Levitical sense. Interestingly, Jesus was originally a layman, and the only place in the New Testament where he is explicitly called a priest is in the Epistle to the Hebrews. Moreover, he is specifically from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, which traditionally disqualified him from the Jewish priesthood1.

Instead of being qualified by earthly lineage, Jesus became a high priest through his superior sonship and “indestructible life,” serving as a priest “after the distinct order of Melchizedek”2. As the book of Hebrews describes, Jesus is our “great high priest who has ascended into heaven,” who can “empathize with our weaknesses” and enable us to “approach God’s throne of grace with confidence”3. His priesthood is distinct and superior to the Aaronic priesthood, notably because he “has become a high priest forever,” unlike the Aaronic priests who died and had only temporary priesthoods4. Fundamentally, Jesus’ priesthood is founded on divine love, and Christians are servants who share in the “Servanthood which He as the Servant par excellence creates”5.

1. 1
   John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew, Rethinking the Historical Jesus: Volume One, The Roots of the Problem and the Person (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 1991), 348.
2. 2
   David Schrock, “Jesus’ Priestly Office,” in Lexham Survey of Theology, ed. Mark Ward et al. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2018). [See here.]
3. 3
   Got Questions Ministries, Got Questions? Bible Questions Answered (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2014–2021). [See here.]
4. 4
   Richard E. Averbeck, “Priest, Priesthood,” in Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, Baker Reference Library (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996), 637.
5. 5
   James Leo Garrett Jr., Systematic Theology: Biblical, Historical, and Evangelical (Eugene, OR: Wipf & Stock, 2014), 608–609.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Now that I have proven Melchizedek is a human with an eternal priesthood, interested to see how you trins get yourself out of this one.

Seriously....? You do your darndest to keep trying to second guess the Heavenly Father... and fail every time.

The purpose of Melchizedek in the Bible when viewed from the perspective of the full canon , is primarily theological and typological. God placed him in Genesis 14 as a real historical person, but the way Scripture describes (and deliberately does not describe) him serves one grand redemptive purpose: to act as a divinely-designed preview and foreshadowing of Jesus Christ as the eternal Priest-King.

Here are the specific purposes Melchizedek serves in God’s unfolding plan:

To show that priesthood existed before the Levitical priesthood and is therefore not limited to the tribe of Levi The Mosaic Law (and the Aaronic priesthood) had not yet been given when Melchizedek met Abraham. By having Abraham (the father of Israel) pay tithes to Melchizedek and receive a blessing from him, God established that a legitimate priesthood could exist outside the later tribe of Levi. This creates the legal and theological “space” for a future priest who is not from Levi ...namely, Jesus (from the tribe of Judah).

Which would provide a scriptural type (pattern/foreshadowing) of an eternal, non-Levitical priest The silence about Melchizedek’s birth, death, and genealogy is intentional. By leaving those details out, the Holy Spirit makes Melchizedek a living illustration of what an eternal priest would look like. Hebrews 7 uses this exact silence to argue that Jesus’ priesthood is eternal and superior.

And this would fulfill and explain Psalm 110:4 Roughly 1,000 years after Genesis, David wrote in Psalm 110:4:“The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.’”At the time David wrote that, the only priesthood Israel knew was Levitical, and Levitical priests could never be kings (and certainly not “forever”). David’s oracle only makes sense if Melchizedek had already been established in Genesis as the prototype of a royal, eternal, non-Levitical priest. So Melchizedek exists in Genesis precisely so that Psalm 110 (and later Hebrews) can point back to him.

And also To demonstrate that Gentiles can have true knowledge of the true God before the nation of Israel existed Melchizedek is a Canaanite king who worships “God Most High” (El Elyon), the same God Abraham worships. This shows that God’s grace and revelation were not limited to Abraham’s descendants from the beginning.

To prefigure specific aspects of Christ’s ministry

King of righteousness (Melchizedek = “my king is righteousness”) = Jesus is the truly righteous king.

King of Salem (“peace”) =Jesus is the Prince of Peace and future king of the New Jerusalem.

Offers bread and wine = prefigures the Lord’s Supper/Eucharist.

Blesses Abraham = the greater blesses the lesser, just as Christ (Abraham’s seed) is greater than Abraham (John 8:58; Heb 7:7).

In short: Melchizedek’s entire reason for appearing in Scripture is to be a God-ordained signpost pointing forward to the coming Messiah who would be both eternal Priest and King—something the Levitical system could never produce. He is not a random character; he is a carefully crafted Old Testament “prop” that only makes sense when Jesus arrives and the author of Hebrews says, “See? This is what Genesis 14 was preparing us for all along.”

So while Melchizedek was a real historical person with a real priestly ministry in his own day, his ultimate biblical purpose is to testify in advance to the priesthood of Christ.

And I have found nowhere that suggests the two could be the same.

And @Runningman ... this is perfect within the Trinity believers for The Heavily Father had it all figured and laid out in His perfect plan before long before there was every said "Let there be".......................................

Unequalled brilliance in laying out what would need to be long before his Son would be walking on earth.

 

[Runningman]

Seriously....? You do your darndest to keep trying to second guess the Heavenly Father... and fail every time.

The purpose of Melchizedek in the Bible when viewed from the perspective of the full canon , is primarily theological and typological. God placed him in Genesis 14 as a real historical person, but the way Scripture describes (and deliberately does not describe) him serves one grand redemptive purpose: to act as a divinely-designed preview and foreshadowing of Jesus Christ as the eternal Priest-King.

Here are the specific purposes Melchizedek serves in God’s unfolding plan:

To show that priesthood existed before the Levitical priesthood and is therefore not limited to the tribe of Levi The Mosaic Law (and the Aaronic priesthood) had not yet been given when Melchizedek met Abraham. By having Abraham (the father of Israel) pay tithes to Melchizedek and receive a blessing from him, God established that a legitimate priesthood could exist outside the later tribe of Levi. This creates the legal and theological “space” for a future priest who is not from Levi ...namely, Jesus (from the tribe of Judah).

Which would provide a scriptural type (pattern/foreshadowing) of an eternal, non-Levitical priest The silence about Melchizedek’s birth, death, and genealogy is intentional. By leaving those details out, the Holy Spirit makes Melchizedek a living illustration of what an eternal priest would look like. Hebrews 7 uses this exact silence to argue that Jesus’ priesthood is eternal and superior.

And this would fulfill and explain Psalm 110:4 Roughly 1,000 years after Genesis, David wrote in Psalm 110:4:“The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.’”At the time David wrote that, the only priesthood Israel knew was Levitical, and Levitical priests could never be kings (and certainly not “forever”). David’s oracle only makes sense if Melchizedek had already been established in Genesis as the prototype of a royal, eternal, non-Levitical priest. So Melchizedek exists in Genesis precisely so that Psalm 110 (and later Hebrews) can point back to him.

And also To demonstrate that Gentiles can have true knowledge of the true God before the nation of Israel existed Melchizedek is a Canaanite king who worships “God Most High” (El Elyon), the same God Abraham worships. This shows that God’s grace and revelation were not limited to Abraham’s descendants from the beginning.

To prefigure specific aspects of Christ’s ministry

King of righteousness (Melchizedek = “my king is righteousness”) = Jesus is the truly righteous king.

King of Salem (“peace”) =Jesus is the Prince of Peace and future king of the New Jerusalem.

Offers bread and wine = prefigures the Lord’s Supper/Eucharist.

Blesses Abraham = the greater blesses the lesser, just as Christ (Abraham’s seed) is greater than Abraham (John 8:58; Heb 7:7).

In short: Melchizedek’s entire reason for appearing in Scripture is to be a God-ordained signpost pointing forward to the coming Messiah who would be both eternal Priest and King—something the Levitical system could never produce. He is not a random character; he is a carefully crafted Old Testament “prop” that only makes sense when Jesus arrives and the author of Hebrews says, “See? This is what Genesis 14 was preparing us for all along.”

So while Melchizedek was a real historical person with a real priestly ministry in his own day, his ultimate biblical purpose is to testify in advance to the priesthood of Christ.

And I have found nowhere that suggests the two could be the same.

And @Runningman ... this is perfect within the Trinity believers for The Heavily Father had it all figured and laid out in His perfect plan before long before there was every said "Let there be".......................................

Unequalled brilliance in laying out what would need to be long before his Son would be walking on earth.

Do you feel like you need to reinterpret Melchizedek as a non human just because that's more convenient for your theology?

 

[amazing grace]

Seriously....? You do your darndest to keep trying to second guess the Heavenly Father... and fail every time.

The purpose of Melchizedek in the Bible when viewed from the perspective of the full canon , is primarily theological and typological. God placed him in Genesis 14 as a real historical person, but the way Scripture describes (and deliberately does not describe) him serves one grand redemptive purpose: to act as a divinely-designed preview and foreshadowing of Jesus Christ as the eternal Priest-King.

Here are the specific purposes Melchizedek serves in God’s unfolding plan:

To show that priesthood existed before the Levitical priesthood and is therefore not limited to the tribe of Levi The Mosaic Law (and the Aaronic priesthood) had not yet been given when Melchizedek met Abraham. By having Abraham (the father of Israel) pay tithes to Melchizedek and receive a blessing from him, God established that a legitimate priesthood could exist outside the later tribe of Levi. This creates the legal and theological “space” for a future priest who is not from Levi ...namely, Jesus (from the tribe of Judah).

Which would provide a scriptural type (pattern/foreshadowing) of an eternal, non-Levitical priest The silence about Melchizedek’s birth, death, and genealogy is intentional. By leaving those details out, the Holy Spirit makes Melchizedek a living illustration of what an eternal priest would look like. Hebrews 7 uses this exact silence to argue that Jesus’ priesthood is eternal and superior.

And this would fulfill and explain Psalm 110:4 Roughly 1,000 years after Genesis, David wrote in Psalm 110:4:“The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.’”At the time David wrote that, the only priesthood Israel knew was Levitical, and Levitical priests could never be kings (and certainly not “forever”). David’s oracle only makes sense if Melchizedek had already been established in Genesis as the prototype of a royal, eternal, non-Levitical priest. So Melchizedek exists in Genesis precisely so that Psalm 110 (and later Hebrews) can point back to him.

And also To demonstrate that Gentiles can have true knowledge of the true God before the nation of Israel existed Melchizedek is a Canaanite king who worships “God Most High” (El Elyon), the same God Abraham worships. This shows that God’s grace and revelation were not limited to Abraham’s descendants from the beginning.

To prefigure specific aspects of Christ’s ministry

King of righteousness (Melchizedek = “my king is righteousness”) = Jesus is the truly righteous king.

King of Salem (“peace”) =Jesus is the Prince of Peace and future king of the New Jerusalem.

Offers bread and wine = prefigures the Lord’s Supper/Eucharist.

Blesses Abraham = the greater blesses the lesser, just as Christ (Abraham’s seed) is greater than Abraham (John 8:58; Heb 7:7).

In short: Melchizedek’s entire reason for appearing in Scripture is to be a God-ordained signpost pointing forward to the coming Messiah who would be both eternal Priest and King—something the Levitical system could never produce. He is not a random character; he is a carefully crafted Old Testament “prop” that only makes sense when Jesus arrives and the author of Hebrews says, “See? This is what Genesis 14 was preparing us for all along.”

So while Melchizedek was a real historical person with a real priestly ministry in his own day, his ultimate biblical purpose is to testify in advance to the priesthood of Christ.

And I have found nowhere that suggests the two could be the same.

Yes, Melchizedek a real historical human being who was a forerunner and typological picture of the Priesthood of Christ showing God will choose from among men whom he wants to be his Priest........For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. [Hebrews 5:1] Both Melchizedek and Jesus were Priest chosen OUTSIDE the Levitical Priesthood which is the reason for the reference to 'without mother, without father, without genealogy' . . . . Don't know your source but great information.

And @Runningman ... this is perfect within the Trinity believers for The Heavily Father had it all figured and laid out in His perfect plan before long before there was every said "Let there be".......................................

Unequalled brilliance in laying out what would need to be long before his Son would be walking on earth.

I don't know nor see anything in favor of 'perfect within the Trinity' - nothing in the post had anything to do with the Trinity as far as I can see BUT it does show how God's purposes will be fulfilled and God's purposes are foreknown and predestined before the ages, before the world began, i.e. Jesus Christ preexistence was in the foreknowledge of God first prophesied in Genesis 3:15 long before Abraham existed.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Do you feel like you need to reinterpret Melchizedek as a non human just because that's more convenient for your theology?

What is your primary language.

Who said he wa a non-human? NOT I.....

Read if you are capable.

From what I posted above....

God placed him in Genesis 14 as a real historical person,

Do you @Runningman think Jesus was a non-human simply because He did not have male sperm to bring him to life?

Melchizedek is/was a Canaanite king who worships “God Most High” (El Elyon), the same God Abraham worships.
I believe that but YOU obviously are looking for an out... Why do I say that...
The very simple reason that you ask me " Do you feel like you need to reinterpret Melchizedek as a non human " after reading what I wrote above and the other post I made suggests you doubt it or you would have dropped it by now.
So let us look further into just that subject and who believes what........... (BTW, IF YOU ARE GATHERING INFO TO POST SOMEWHERE ELSE... LIKE ANOTHER FORUM.... I WANT THE CREDIT)

NOW READ.......

Melchizedek was a real historical person according to the straightforward reading of the Bible, and there is no strong reason from archaeology or ancient Near Eastern records to doubt his existence.

Do you know why???????????????/

Genesis presents him as a real, historical figure Genesis 14 is written as historical narrative, not myth or allegory. It places Melchizedek in a detailed military campaign involving real kings (e.g., Chedorlaomer of Elam, Amraphel of Shinar, Tidal king of Goiim, etc.). Many of these names and regions match known 20th–18th century BC Mesopotamian and Canaanite history. In that same chapter, Abraham interacts with the king of Sodom (also a very real city later destroyed ). So the text treats Melchizedek as just as real as Abraham, Lot, or the king of Sodom.

He also is treated as historical in the rest of the Bible

Psalm 110 (written ~1000 BC) refers back to him as a real person whose priesthood is a known pattern.

The entire argument of Hebrews 5–7 only works if Melchizedek was a real man who actually met Abraham and received tithes from him. The author of Hebrews repeatedly says things like “Melchizedek met Abraham… Abraham gave him a tenth… consider how great this man was…” (Heb 7:1–10). The theological point collapses if he’s fictional.

The name and title fit the period perfectly

“Melchizedek” = Hebrew מַלְכִּי־צֶדֶק (Malki-ṣedeq) = “My king is Ṣedeq” or “King of Righteousness.”

Ṣedeq/Ṣidqu was a well-attested divine name/element in Canaanite and Amorite names (e.g., the 14th-century BC Amarna letters mention a king of Jerusalem named Abdi-Ḫeba who serves a god named Ṣalma/Ṣalim).

“King of Salem” = almost certainly Jerusalem (confirmed by Psalm 76:2 and ancient Jewish tradition). Jerusalem was already a functioning city-state in the Middle Bronze Age (the time of Abraham).

ASSITIONALLY...No ancient Jewish or Christian source treats him as mythical Even in Second Temple Jewish literature (Dead Sea Scrolls, Philo, Josephus) and the earliest church fathers, Melchizedek is always regarded as a real human king-priest. Some later texts speculate wildly about him (e.g., the Qumran scroll 11QMelchizedek portrays him as an angelic or eschatological figure), but they still assume he was historical first.

I will repeat... and for the last time... I am NOT in question of his historicity.

It bothers me not that there is no name of a father or mother for him... IT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE HE DID WHAT GOD NEEDED HIM TO DO...

I never said he was not a real person.....​

You on the other hand always sound like you are a doubter.

Does this sound familiar? “We have no extra-biblical evidence for Melchizedek, therefore he might be legendary.”

No? Well it sounds an awful lot like many of your posts when I are trying to argue away from other peoples beliefs.

But that’s an argument from silence. We don’t have extra-biblical evidence for most individuals mentioned in Genesis 12–50 (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, etc.) either, yet almost no one claims they are fictional on that basis alone.

The patriarchal narratives are now widely regarded as containing authentic early-2nd-millennium BC cultural and linguistic details, so the lack of a stela or clay tablet mentioning Melchizedek is not surprising.

I believe he was real. PERIOD.​

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes, Melchizedek a real historical human being who was a forerunner and typological picture of the Priesthood of Christ showing God will choose from among men whom he wants to be his Priest........For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. [Hebrews 5:1] Both Melchizedek and Jesus were Priest chosen OUTSIDE the Levitical Priesthood which is the reason for the reference to 'without mother, without father, without genealogy' . . . . Don't know your source but great information.

I don't know nor see anything in favor of 'perfect within the Trinity' - nothing in the post had anything to do with the Trinity as far as I can see BUT it does show how God's purposes will be fulfilled and God's purposes are foreknown and predestined before the ages, before the world began, i.e. Jesus Christ preexistence was in the foreknowledge of God first prophesied in Genesis 3:15 long before Abraham existed.

You do not see because you have no need to know.

You see nothing in the post? A post under the title the Trinity and Incarnation?????????/

Everything... within the Holy Scriptures is either leading to or talking about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

I was challenged with not believing Melchizedek was a real person after the post I have made that says nothing but.

I was challenged on my beliefs after the suggesting that Melchizedek and Jesus might be one in the same.

IF THAT DOES NOT INTRODUE THE TRINITY INTO A MELCHIZADEK CONVERSATION THEN THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH TOPICS IN THIS FORUM... Perhaps our goal should be double what there is now???????????? What say you?

 

[amazing grace]

You do not see because you have no need to know.

You see nothing in the post? A post under the title the Trinity and Incarnation?????????/

Everything... within the Holy Scriptures is either leading to or talking about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

I was challenged with not believing Melchizedek was a real person after the post I have made that says nothing but.

I was challenged on my beliefs after the suggesting that Melchizedek and Jesus might be one in the same.

IF THAT DOES NOT INTRODUE THE TRINITY INTO A MELCHIZADEK CONVERSATION THEN THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH TOPICS IN THIS FORUM... Perhaps our goal should be double what there is now???????????? What say you?

Well, I honestly did try to compliment your post . . . .

I wasn't talking about the whole thread entitled 'the Trinity and Incarnation.

I guess I hadn't read the post where YOU SUGGESTED Melchizedek being Jesus --- shame on me for taking the post at face value

In the post I responded to I saw no mention of Melchizedek BEING Jesus - I saw him being presented as a type of Christ . . . a foreshadowing of the coming high Priest chosen out from among men.

Again, shame on me for taking the one single post at face value . . . . WOW

 

[charismaticlady]

Melchizedek, whose name means “king of righteousness,” was a king of Salem (Jerusalem) and priest of the Most High God (Genesis 14:18–20; Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:6–11; 6:20—7:28). Melchizedek’s sudden appearance and disappearance in the book of Genesis is somewhat mysterious. Melchizedek and Abraham first met after Abraham’s defeat of Chedorlaomer and his three allies. Melchizedek presented bread and wine to Abraham and his weary men, demonstrating friendship. He bestowed a blessing on Abraham in the name of El Elyon(“God Most High”) and praised God for giving Abraham a victory in battle (Genesis 14:18–20).

Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the items he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than he.

In Psalm 110, a messianic psalm written by David (Matthew 22:43), Melchizedek is presented as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ’s new priesthood is superior to the old levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron (Hebrews 7:1–10).

Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, or a Christophany. This is a possible theory, especially given that Abraham received such a visit later, in Genesis 17—18, when Abraham saw and spoke with the Lord (Yahweh) in the form of a man.

Hebrews 6:20 says, “[Jesus] has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” This term order would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. None are ever mentioned, however, in the long interval from Melchizedek to Christ, an anomaly that can be solved by assuming that Melchizedek and Christ are really the same person. Thus the “order” is eternally vested in Him and Him alone.

Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” The question is whether the author of Hebrews means this actually or figuratively.

If the description in Hebrews is literal, then it is indeed difficult to see how it could be properly applied to anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. No mere earthly king “remains a priest forever,” and no mere human is “without father or mother.” If Genesis 14 describes a theophany, then God the Son came to give Abraham His blessing (Genesis 14:17–19), appearing as the King of Righteousness (Revelation 19:11,16), the King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), and the Mediator between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).

If the description of Melchizedek is figurative, then the details of having no genealogy, no beginning or ending, and a ceaseless ministry are simply statements accentuating the mysterious nature of the person who met Abraham. In this case, the silence in the Genesis account concerning these details is purposeful and better serves to link Melchizedek with Christ.

Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself. got?

hope this helps !!!

Curious. I hold to it being a theophany. Have you made up your mind yet?

 

[praise_yeshua]

All humans have two human parents. If Melchizedek had none, that means He was God revealing Himself in the form of man.

I know some Christians hold this position but it really isn't necessary.

Melchizedek keep being "King of Salem" long after he meet Abraham. Either this was a "Incarnation" in the same context of Jesus Christ or it wasn't. It wasn't.

The author of Hebrews is detailing how Melchizedek was not included in the lineage of Aaron. That a preexisting priestly order existed before Abraham.

A "priestly order" not bound by Levi or Abraham for that matter.

Salem is Jerusalem. Salem was conquered by Israel after it fell into pagan leadership.

This battle that exists between "Jews and Gentiles" is a distraction. We are all of the same family. Of the same lineage. A lineage written in Adam himself. This is why I often remind people that Christ is called the "Second Adam". Not the "Second Abraham".