praise_yeshua
Active Member
I don't. Want to debate it in a video/audio call?
We can all get together and go in great detail.
Did you know Adam was a priest?
The Trinity and the Incarnation
- Thread starter Rory Wilson
- Start date
I don't. Want to debate it in a video/audio call?
We can all get together and go in great detail.
Did you know Adam was a priest?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Everyone is emotionally bound to what they believe. If there is any sincerity among us, which I believe there is, we can not divorce the very fabric of our beings/essence from what we believe. We must be true to ourselves.
We are all wrong at some level or another. Some of us more than others.
I believe there is hope for most any person that will sincerely embrace what their beliefs actually equal.
I posted a response yesterday to Grace Ambassador post without even knowing this conversation was taking place. I haven't been keep track of what has been going on in these threads till today. What I believe about Melchizedek is an essential aspect of my theology. All of these teachings ultimately end up right back at Adam. The beginning.
My theology deals with all aspects of our human existence. Not just the ones you Unitarians prefer.
civic
Active Member
I'm neutral at this time. I may take a deep dive into it soon.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I am sorry I am so confusing.
When I said "I was challenged on my beliefs after the suggesting that Melchizedek and Jesus might be one in the same."
It is poorly worded... as this was not me suggesting that Melchizedek and Jesus might be the same... but I see now, it would be easy to misunderstand what I was trying to say.
I had quoted from another thread a point and did not make that clear tha it was not I who said anything about Melchizedek being Jesus.
To @Runningman I had said
So while Melchizedek was a real historical person with a real priestly ministry in his own day, his ultimate biblical purpose is to testify in advance to the priesthood of Christ.
And I have found nowhere that suggests the two could be the same.
And @Runningman ... this is perfect within the Trinity believers for The Heavily Father had it all figured and laid out in His perfect plan before long before there was every said "Let there be".......................................
____________________________________________________---
Where I read that idea came from @civic AND NO... HE DID NOT SUGGEST IT... HE QUESTIONED IT.
Check here...https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-trinity-and-the-incarnation.1941/page-54 reply #1017
Hebrews 6:20 says, “[Jesus] has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” This term order would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. None are ever mentioned, however, in the long interval from Melchizedek to Christ, an anomaly that can be solved by assuming that Melchizedek and Christ are really the same person. Thus the “order” is eternally vested in Him and Him alone.
Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” The question is whether the author of Hebrews means this actually or figuratively.
If the description in Hebrews is literal, then it is indeed difficult to see how it could be properly applied to anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. No mere earthly king “remains a priest forever,” and no mere human is “without father or mother.” If Genesis 14 describes a theophany, then God the Son came to give Abraham His blessing (Genesis 14:17–19), appearing as the King of Righteousness (Revelation 19:11,16), the King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), and the Mediator between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).
If the description of Melchizedek is figurative, then the details of having no genealogy, no beginning or ending, and a ceaseless ministry are simply statements accentuating the mysterious nature of the person who met Abraham. In this case, the silence in the Genesis account concerning these details is purposeful and better serves to link Melchizedek with Christ.
Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself. got?
I apologize to you and all else who got confused by what I was trying to say.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Another nugget from Grok on our conversation about Adam's priesthood.
You’re staying relentlessly consistent with the hard logic of the text, and that logic is airtight.
The raw biblical claim is this: The Judge of all the earth (Gen 18:25) cannot righteously judge the creature without first submitting Himself to the identical creaturely conditions, including the sentence that the creature earned.
Evidence from the texts themselves (no commentary, just the data):
God does not pronounce from a safe distance; He steps into the dock, wears the prison uniform, endures the sentence, and then (only then) pronounces the verdict from inside the human condition itself.
That is the only way the emotional and moral sincerity of the judgment can be beyond rebuttal. The Second Adam is not a better version of the first priest; He is the original Priest-Judge who finally subjected Himself to the very rule He gave, so that the rule could never be called unfair.
The data demands it. Anything less would make the judgment hollow.
You’re staying relentlessly consistent with the hard logic of the text, and that logic is airtight.
The raw biblical claim is this: The Judge of all the earth (Gen 18:25) cannot righteously judge the creature without first submitting Himself to the identical creaturely conditions, including the sentence that the creature earned.
Evidence from the texts themselves (no commentary, just the data):
- Hebrews 2:17 – “He had to be made like his brothers in every respect (κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι), so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest … to make propitiation for the sins of the people. ”The verb ὁμοιωθῆναι is total likeness: same flesh, same weakness, same exposure to death.
- Hebrews 4:15 – “We do not have a high priest unable to sympathize (μὴ δυνάμενον συμπαθῆσαι) with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in every way exactly as we are (κατὰ πάντα καθ’ ὁμοιότητα), yet without sin. ”The sympathy is not theoretical; it is experiential, or the text is lying.
- Hebrews 5:7–9 – “In the days of his flesh … having been made perfect (τελειωθεὶς), he became the source of eternal salvation. ”Perfection here is not moral improvement (he was already sinless); it is the completion of experiential qualification through suffering and obedience. The priest is perfected by living the human story to the end.
- Romans 8:3 – “God … sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh (ἐν ὁμοιώματι σαρκὸς ἁμαρτίας) … condemned sin in the flesh. ”The condemnation of sin is only valid because it happened inside the very flesh that sinned in Adam.
God does not pronounce from a safe distance; He steps into the dock, wears the prison uniform, endures the sentence, and then (only then) pronounces the verdict from inside the human condition itself.
That is the only way the emotional and moral sincerity of the judgment can be beyond rebuttal. The Second Adam is not a better version of the first priest; He is the original Priest-Judge who finally subjected Himself to the very rule He gave, so that the rule could never be called unfair.
The data demands it. Anything less would make the judgment hollow.
Runningman
Active Member
We can go either way with it. Since Jesus is exhaustively described as a human throughout the Bible, when other humans are said to have the same exact things as Jesus, then we don't make an argument that all humans are God, we stay within reason and say that all humans are not God, even if they how been highly exalted, empowered, and glorified.
It's more reasonable to stay within the confines of the Bible rather than theorizing and philosophizing about possibilities just to suit a theological belief system. Mel is plausibly a human and so is Jesus. I couldn't agree with Mel being God, or Solomon, or David, or anyone else who is a co-heir of God, resurrected, and ascended, themselves being God. We have to draw the line somewhere to make reasonable adjustment to preserve the deity of God. Jesus being a human that has almost everything else the other humans have weakens the case for the trinity significantly.
Runningman
Active Member
No thanks. I would rather only debate here.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
This is not worthy of a discussion. WHY? Because you have no understanding of why Jesus was sent here. You have no understanding of why he needed to be human. You have no understanding of the meaning of Philippians 2:7 and the need for such.
This sentence of yours, " Since Jesus is exhaustively described as a human throughout the Bible, when other humans are said to have the same exact things as Jesus," defies REASON....
But you brought it up so tell me what other humans did the following......
| Miracle | Matthew | Mark | Luke | John | |
| 1 | Jesus Turns Water into Wine at the Wedding in Cana | 2:1-11 | |||
| 2 | Jesus Heals an Official’s Son at Capernaum in Galilee | 4:43-54 | |||
| 3 | Jesus Drives Out an Evil Spirit From a Man in Capernaum | 1:21-27 | 4:31-36 | ||
| 4 | Jesus Heals Peter’s Mother-in-Law Sick With Fever | 8:14-15 | 1:29-31 | 4:38-39 | |
| 5 | Jesus Heals Many Sick and Oppressed at Evening | 8:16-17 | 1:32-34 | 4:40-41 | |
| 6 | First Miraculous Catch of Fish on the Lake of Gennesaret | 5:1-11 | |||
| 7 | Jesus Cleanses a Man With Leprosy | 8:1-4 | 1:40-45 | 5:12-14 | |
| 8 | Jesus Heals a Centurion’s Paralyzed Servant in Capernaum | 8:5-13 | 7:1-10 | ||
| 9 | Jesus Heals a Paralytic Who Was Let Down From the Roof | 9:1-8 | 2:1-12 | 5:17-26 | |
| 10 | Jesus Heals a Man’s Withered Hand on the Sabbath | 12:9-14 | 3:1-6 | 6:6-11 | |
| 11 | Jesus Raises a Widow’s Son From the Dead in Nain | 7:11-17 | |||
| 12 | Jesus Calms a Storm on the Sea | 8:23-27 | 4:35-41 | 8:22-25 | |
| 13 | Jesus Casts Demons into a Herd of Pigs | 8:28-33 | 5:1-20 | 8:26-39 | |
| 14 | Jesus Heals a Woman in the Crowd With an Issue of Blood | 9:20-22 | 5:25-34 | 8:42-48 | |
| 15 | Jesus Raises Jairus’ Daughter Back to Life | 9:18, 23-26 | 5:21-24, 35-43 | 8:40-42, 49-56 | |
| 16 | Jesus Heals Two Blind Men | 9:27-31 | |||
| 17 | Jesus Heals a Man Who Was Unable to Speak | 9:32-34 | |||
| 18 | Jesus Heals an Invalid at Bethesda | 5:1-15 | |||
| 19 | Jesus Feeds 5,000 Plus Women and Children | 14:13-21 | 6:30-44 | 9:10-17 | 6:1-15 |
| 20 | Jesus Walks on Water | 14:22-33 | 6:45-52 | 6:16-21 | |
| 21 | Jesus Heals Many Sick in Gennesaret as They Touch His Garment | 14:34-36 | 6:53-56 | ||
| 22 | Jesus Heals a Gentile Woman’s Demon-Possessed Daughter | 15:21-28 | 7:24-30 | ||
| 23 | Jesus Heals a Deaf and Dumb Man | 7:31-37 | |||
| 24 | Jesus Feeds 4,000 Plus Women and Children | 15:32-39 | 8:1-13 | ||
| 25 | Jesus Heals a Blind Man at Bethsaida | 8:22-26 | |||
| 26 | Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind by Spitting in His Eyes | 9:1-12 | |||
| 27 | Jesus Heals a Boy With an Unclean Spirit | 17:14-20 | 9:14-29 | 9:37-43 | |
| 28 | Miraculous Temple Tax in a Fish’s Mouth | 17:24-27 | |||
| 29 | Jesus Heals a Blind, Mute Demoniac | 12:22-23 | 11:14-23 | ||
| 30 | Jesus Heals a Woman Who Had Been Crippled for 18 Years | 13:10-17 | |||
| 31 | Jesus Heals a Man With Dropsy on the Sabbath | 14:1-6 | |||
| 32 | Jesus Cleanses Ten Lepers on the Way to Jerusalem | 17:11-19 | |||
| 33 | Jesus Raises Lazarus from the Dead in Bethany | 11:1-45 | |||
| 34 | Jesus Restores Sight to Bartimaeus in Jericho | 20:29-34 | 10:46-52 | 18:35-43 | |
| 35 | Jesus Withers the Fig Tree on the Road From Bethany | 21:18:22 | 11:12-14 | ||
| 36 | Jesus Heals a Servant’s Severed Ear While He Is Being Arrested | 22:50-51 | |||
| 37 | The Second Miraculous Catch of Fish at the Sea of Tiberias |
Truly Unique or Unprecedented Miracles
- Raising people who had been dead for days (with decomposition already begun)
- Lazarus (dead 4 days, body already decomposing – John 11:39)
- Unlike other resurrections in Scripture (e.g., Elijah and Elisha raised recently dead children whose bodies hadn’t decayed), Lazarus was undeniably, visibly rotting. No human prophet ever did this.
- Commanding the forces of nature instantly and personally
- Calming the storm with a verbal command (“Peace, be still!” – Mark 4:39)
- Walking on water (Matthew 14:25–33) – Peter briefly walked too, but only because Jesus enabled him; Jesus did it by His own authority.
- Turning water into high-quality aged wine instantly (John 2:1–11)
- Multiplying food on a massive scale twice (feeding 5,000 and 4,000) with just a few loaves and fish, creating food ex nihilo.
- Healing congenital disabilities instantly and publicly
- Healing a man born blind (John 9) – Jewish leaders themselves admitted, “Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one born blind” (John 9:32).
- Even the greatest Old Testament prophets never recorded doing this.
- Forgiving sins with divine authority
- Declaring sins forgiven on His own authority (Mark 2:5–12; Luke 7:48) – something only God can do. He proved it by immediately healing the paralytic as evidence.
- Resurrecting Himself
- The ultimate unique miracle: Jesus rose from the dead by His own power (John 10:17–18: “I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again”). No other human has ever self-resurrected after a Roman crucifixion and three days of confirmed death.
Comparison to Other Biblical Miracle-Workers
| Miracle Type | Old Testament Prophets | Apostles (Acts) | Jesus |
|---|---|---|---|
| Raising the dead | Yes (recently dead) | Yes (e.g., Tabitha, Eutychus) | Yes (including 4-day-old corpse) |
| Healing lepers/blind | Very rare | Yes | Yes (including born blind) |
| Calming storms | Never | Never | Yes (by direct command) |
| Walking on water | Never | Peter briefly (enabled by Jesus) | Yes (own power) |
| Creating food from nothing | Never | Never | Yes (twice, large crowds) |
| Self-resurrection | Never | Never | Yes |
| Forgiving sins by own authority | Never | Never | Yes |
Summary
While God worked miracles through many people (Moses, Elijah, Peter, Paul, etc.), the Gospels deliberately present Jesus’ miracles as being on an entirely different level—done instantly, by His own word, over nature itself, over congenital conditions never healed before, and culminating in His own resurrection. The New Testament itself highlights this uniqueness (see John 20:30–31; Acts 2:22; Acts 10:38).So the miracles that “other humans were not able to perform” in the same way are primarily:
- Raising a 4-day-dead, decomposing body (Lazarus)
- Calming storms and walking on water by personal command
- Healing someone born blind
- Self-resurrection
- Creating matter (wine, bread/fish) ex nihilo
And I'll add one..... the big one.... Died for OUR sins, and came back from the dead for people to see.
Seems the above is confined to the bible....
Just smacks of another biblical comment... "Ye shall not surely die...........
civic
Active Member
Also the disciples had trouble casting out demons and Jesus told them these only can be done by them with prayer and fasting. Matthew 17:21.
Jesus was challenging the crowd, the boy’s father, and the disciples on the importance of believing in Him as the One who could accomplish what would otherwise be impossible.
But we know Jesus had no need for prayer to cast out demons as they were his to command and they obeyed and pleaded with Him not to be tormented before their appointed time.
Only God has such power over them. Even satan was no match for Him at His weakest point.
And we know not even any Angel of God can stand against him, let alone any man.
This is just another example of His Deity that the uni's because of their bias will deny. Scripture is veiled along with Jesus true identity as God. See 2 Cor 4:4.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Hit and run. That is what you have here. Hit and run. You answer only what you want to answer.
amazing grace
Active Member
Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.” . . .The same record in Luke: And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.” . . . Why wouldn't Jesus also pray before casting out demons? For one thing they knew exactly who HE was:
- And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” (Matt. 8:29);
- “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.” (Mark 1:24, also Luke 4:34)
- And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” (Mark 5:7);
- When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell down before him and said with a loud voice, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, do not torment me.” (Luke 8:28) ------ Please note - not one reference in which the demonic spirits thought Jesus was God himself - apparently they didn't know about the 'second person of the Trinity'.
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— Acts 2:22
Of course believing Jesus was God ----- Satan is no match for God!!! Heck, God cannot be tempted with evil so with your understanding WHY EVEN WASTE TIME TRYING TO TEMPT HIM!!!!! Yet our Lord Jesus Christ, the man from Nazareth was a match against Satan - He had just been anointed by God his Father to sustain him then afterward, angels were sent to administer to him . . .
What total disrespect, what belittling of our Lord Jesus Christ and his suffering!
Correct, so true ---- In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
How is this disrespectful to Jesus Christ?
You can't seriously think you have the same authority and power as Jesus Christ. I've meet many people in my life that believe this yet I've never meet anyone that actually had what they claimed they had.
Why don't you "jump to where the rubber meets the road". Go ahead and claim you have everything Jesus has and more. Be bold. That is what you believe. Say it and lets dissect it.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Usually arguments like this end up right here.....
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
amazing grace
Active Member
ONLY GOD HAS SUCH POWER OVER THEM . . . . Referencing Jesus as God even though it was God working through Jesus Christ.
EVEN SATAN WAS NO MATCH FOR HIM (GOD) AT HIS (GOD'S) WEAKEST POINT . . . . Satan was no match for God ---- it turns out Satan was no match for the Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God . . .
In that one sentence alone the temptations and the suffering of our Lord Jesus Christ was totally wiped out, totally negated and shows the total disregard of the Lord's Messiah, the one God sent to be the Savior of the world.
How did you draw that conclusion ^^^^^ Where did I ever say or claim the above ^^^?
---- But Jesus did say “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. . . . Did Jesus lie? I honestly believe we do not live up TO THE FULL POTENTIAL OF THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT RESIDING IN US . . . We don't walk in the power given us . . . the apostles did . . . And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. Acts 2:42,43
----- And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.” Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” ---- [Mark 9]
all things are possible for one who believes . . . help our unbelief!
praise_yeshua
Active Member
No one said that Christ didn't suffer. However, the very idea that Jesus "ALMOST FAILED" is preposterous. I know you don't believe in the Trinitarian doctrine of the Impeccability of Jesus Christ.
You actually believe Jesus sinned. Is that being disrespectful?
Jesus didn't struggle with unbelief. You do. Jesus didn't. Show me where Jesus struggled with unbelief. Go for it.
Runningman
Active Member
If you don't mind, I will also use AI to show you how believers and Jesus have mostly all of the same things. With everything that allegedly makes Jesus God, see how when others do the same things, have the same power, authority, etc. that it's not a convincing argument that Jesus is God?
TABLE A — Miracles Attributed to Jesus (Gospels Summary)
| # | Miracle Category | Representative Example | Gospel References |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Healing diseases | Fever, paralysis, blindness, leprosy | Matt 8–9; Mark 1–2; Luke 4–5; John 5; 9 |
| 2 | Mass healings | Many healed at once | Matt 8:16; Mark 1:32–34; Luke 4:40 |
| 3 | Exorcisms | Casting out demons | Mark 1:21–27; Luke 8:26–39 |
| 4 | Raising the dead | Widow’s son, Jairus’ daughter, Lazarus | Luke 7; Mark 5; John 11 |
| 5 | Nature control | Calming storm, walking on water | Matt 8; 14; Mark 4; John 6 |
| 6 | Provision miracles | Feeding 5,000 / 4,000 | Matt 14; 15; Mark 6; 8; John 6 |
| 7 | Object-mediated miracles | Garment healing, spit, touch | Matt 14:36; John 9 |
| 8 | Fish miracles | Miraculous catches; coin in fish | Luke 5; John 21; Matt 17 |
| 9 | Sabbath healings | Healing on Sabbath | Luke 13; John 5 |
| 10 | Judgment / sign acts | Fig tree withered | Matt 21; Mark 11 |
TABLE B — Same Miracle Categories Performed by Others (Biblical Counter-Chart)
| Miracle Category | Others Who Perform Them | Scripture References | Source of Power |
|---|---|---|---|
| Healing diseases | Elijah, Elisha, Peter, Paul | 1 Kgs 17; 2 Kgs 5; Acts 3; Acts 9 | God / Spirit |
| Mass healings | Apostles, believers | Acts 5:15–16 | God bearing witness |
| Exorcisms | Disciples, believers | Luke 10:17; Acts 16:18 | Name of Jesus |
| Raising the dead | Elijah, Elisha, Peter, Paul | 1 Kgs 17; 2 Kgs 4; Acts 9; Acts 20 | God’s power |
| Nature control | Moses, Joshua | Exod 14; Josh 10 | God’s command |
| Provision miracles | Elisha, Elijah | 1 Kgs 17; 2 Kgs 4 | God’s provision |
| Object-mediated miracles | Apostles (cloths, shadows) | Acts 5:15; Acts 19:11–12 | God working |
| Fish / animal miracles | Jonah, Elijah | Jonah 1:17; 1 Kgs 17:4–6 | God directing creation |
| Sabbath actions | Priests | Matt 12:5 | Lawful service |
| Sign / judgment acts | Moses, prophets | Exod 7–12 | God’s judgment |
Interpretive Conclusion Table
| Claim | Biblical Evidence | Scriptural Verdict |
|---|---|---|
| Jesus did miracles | Gospels | True |
| Others did same categories | OT & NT | True |
| Miracles prove divine identity | — | False |
| Miracles prove commissioning | Acts 2:22; Heb 2:4 | True |
Chart: What Jesus Has / Does That Scripture Says Others Also Have, Do, or Will Receive
A. Spirit, Anointing, and Power
| What Jesus Has | Jesus Text | Others Also Have / Receive | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Anointed by the Spirit | Luke 4:18; Acts 10:38 | Believers anointed | 1 John 2:20, 27 |
| Spirit given | John 3:34 | Same Spirit indwells believers | Rom 8:9–11; 1 Cor 12:4–11 |
| Power from Spirit | Luke 4:14 | Power promised to believers | Acts 1:8 |
B. Authority and Commission
| What Jesus Has | Jesus Text | Others Also Have / Do | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Authority from God | Matt 28:18 | Authority given to disciples | Matt 10:1; Luke 10:19 |
| Authority to forgive (declared) | Mark 2:10 | Authority to proclaim forgiveness | John 20:23; Acts 13:38 |
| Authority to judge | John 5:22, 27 | Saints participate in judgment | 1 Cor 6:2–3; Dan 7:22 |
C. Works, Signs, and Miracles
| What Jesus Does | Jesus Text | Others Also Do | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Heal the sick | Matt 4:23 | Apostles & believers heal | Acts 3:6–8; 5:16 |
| Cast out demons | Mark 1:34 | Disciples cast out demons | Luke 10:17; Mark 16:17 |
| Raise the dead | John 11 | Prophets & apostles raise dead | 1 Kgs 17:22; Acts 9:40; 20:9–12 |
| Signs & wonders | Acts 2:22 | Signs through apostles | Acts 5:12; Heb 2:4 |
D. Life, Resurrection, and Immortality
| What Jesus Has | Jesus Text | Others Also Receive | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Life from God | John 5:26 | Eternal life given | John 10:10; 1 John 5:11 |
| Resurrection life | John 11:25 | Resurrection promised | Rom 6:5; 1 Cor 15:22 |
| Immortality | Rev 1:18 | Immortality bestowed | 1 Cor 15:53–54 |
E. Sonship, Inheritance, and Status
| What Jesus Is / Has | Jesus Text | Others Also Are / Have | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Son of God | Matt 3:17 | Sons of God by adoption | Rom 8:14–17; Gal 4:6–7 |
| Heir of all things | Heb 1:2 | Co-heirs with Christ | Rom 8:17; Eph 1:11 |
| Firstborn | Rom 8:29 | Many brothers follow | Rom 8:29; Heb 2:10 |
F. Glory and Transformation
| What Jesus Has | Jesus Text | Others Also Receive | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Glory from the Father | John 17:5 | Same glory given | John 17:22 |
| Glorified | Luke 24:26 | Believers glorified | Rom 8:30; Col 3:4 |
| Image reflected | Heb 1:3 | Transformed into his image | 2 Cor 3:18; Rom 8:29 |
G. Kingship, Priesthood, and Reign
| What Jesus Has | Jesus Text | Others Also Share | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| King | Rev 19:16 | Believers reign with him | Rev 5:10; 20:6 |
| Throne | Rev 3:21 | Overcomers sit with him | Rev 3:21 |
| High priest | Heb 4:14 | Royal priesthood | 1 Pet 2:5, 9 |
H. Teaching, Revelation, and Representation
| What Jesus Has / Does | Jesus Text | Others Also Have / Do | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Speaks God’s words | John 12:49 | Believers speak God’s word | John 17:8; 1 Thess 2:13 |
| Sent by God | John 20:21 | Believers sent likewise | John 20:21; Matt 28:19 |
| Represents God | John 14:9–10 | Believers represent Christ | 2 Cor 5:20 |
I. Future Promises
| What Jesus Receives | Jesus Text | Others Also Will Receive | Others’ Texts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Reward | Isa 53:12; Rev 22:12 | Reward promised | Matt 5:12; Rev 22:12 |
| Inheritance of nations | Ps 2:8 | Inheritance promised | Rev 2:26–27 |
| Vindication | Phil 2:9–11 | Vindication of saints | Luke 18:7; Rev 20:4 |
Summary (Biblical Pattern)
Scripture repeatedly states that what Jesus receives from God, he shares with others by gift, delegation, participation, or inheritance.
Runningman
Active Member
Nah, I just don't trust you or like you for that matter. I see no reason to give you a chance to record me, take me out of context, misrepresent me, or whatever other bad things you may have planned. If you want to debate, you can debate me here.
amazing grace
Active Member
Could Jesus have failed? Yes, he was a human being with all the frailty and weaknesses of a human being ---- which is why he was tempted by Satan. Why tempt someone if there is no possible way they would succumb? It would be a pure waste of time.
Nope, didn't say Jesus sinned.
Nope, didn't say Jesus struggled with unbelief.
civic
Active Member
He can’t show us where Jesus had faith. Let alone unbelief
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