Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Studyman]

Yeah. Spoken by a man that can't operate unless he is the "lead" of everything.....

You do realize that you're not going to control your wife for long.... Right?

Such things are temporal. When you judge all things "God", you should consider such.

I've learned that my wife knows how to lead. It isn't bad to be "hen pecked" when you're "pecked by the right hen". When you have a good relationship. You do everything TOGETHER. Agreement is everything. You think the same way. You finish each other's sentences. You operate as ONE.

You can't fathom that because you've never experienced it yourself.

The narcissistic hubris this post represents is astonishing. And why must you exalt yourself by lording over others? Why? Because I agreed with the undeniable Truth of the Hierarchy created by God? Jesus Himself said His Father is Greater that HE because he who is sent, is subject to the one in Authority who sent Him. Even a child can understand this. My wife submits to God and so do I. We both honor God's hierarchy, which makes us One in Him. I would never compare my wife to a chicken, but we do finish each others sentences have been happily married for 44 years, and having run a business out of our house since '87. What did I post that would cause such a reply? Did God's actual Words rile you up this way?

You should really consider reaching out for some help PY.

 

[amazing grace]

Part of the Holy Trinity. Does that make a difference? Why the hostility to including the Son in the relationship? Would you exclude your son from you like that?

I have a son. I can tell you, I don't treat him any differently than I treat myself. We serve one another. I would do almost anything for him. Same with my daughter.

I honestly have a very real problem with the integrity lacking in Unitarians to dishonor Jesus Christ by not promoting Him equal with His Father.

I quoted 1 Cor. 11:3 ---- I asked about your response to 1 Cor. 11:3. I didn't think I showed any hostility.
The Trinity is made of parts?

I see parents as being set in authority over their children - not treating our children as adults as we are but as under our supervision. Our adult children are no longer under our discipline or supervision and we treat them as the adults they are but that is not what 1 Cor. 11:3 is talking about - there is a hierarchy of order and authority within the cited relationships mentioned.....God > Christ > man > wife

No one has dishonored Jesus Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The narcissistic hubris this post represents is astonishing. And why must you exalt yourself by lording over others? Why? Because I agreed with the undeniable Truth of the Hierarchy created by God? Jesus Himself said His Father is Greater that HE because he who is sent, is subject to the one in Authority who sent Him. Even a child can understand this. My wife submits to God and so do I. We both honor God's hierarchy, which makes us One in Him. I would never compare my wife to a chicken, but we do finish each others sentences have been happily married for 44 years, and having run a business out of our house since '87. What did I post that would cause such a reply? Did God's actual Words rile you up this way?

You should really consider reaching out for some help PY.

"Hens" is rather common expression. I didn't invent it. I used it for a reason. It is "play" upon common characterizations. You'll notice it eventually.

It was the attitude of dealing with relationships that causes the friction.

Do you plan on ruling your wife throughout Eternity or will she finally become your equal? Sincere question. A revealing question. Don't act offended. Roar, roar, roar....

 

[praise_yeshua]

I quoted 1 Cor. 11:3 ---- I asked about your response to 1 Cor. 11:3. I didn't think I showed any hostility.
The Trinity is made of parts?

I see parents as being set in authority over their children - not treating our children as adults as we are but as under our supervision. Our adult children are no longer under our discipline or supervision and we treat them as the adults they are but that is not what 1 Cor. 3:11 is talking about - there is a hierarchy of order and authority within the cited relationships mentioned.....God > Christ > man > wife

No one has dishonored Jesus Christ.

Do you want your child to grow up or remain a child their entire life. You're "flattening" again.

Maybe consider Paul's reference to the "heir"..... Your authority ends when your child becomes an adult.

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Is Jesus Christ the Heir of all things?

You're dishonoring Him right now.

 

[amazing grace]

Do you want your child to grow up or remain a child their entire life. You're "flattening" again.

Maybe consider Paul's reference to the "heir"..... Your authority ends when your child becomes an adult.

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Is Jesus Christ the Heir of all things?

You're dishonoring Him right now.

Apparently you didn't read what I said or you didn't understand what I said:
"Our adult children are no longer under our discipline or supervision and we treat them as the adults they are........"

But again, to get us off track you are trying to take this off in a totally different direction than what the scripture is talking about - nothing about children, raising children or heirs.

What does Jesus Christ being the heir of all things have to do with :
1 Cor. 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God?

Honestly? by speaking of the hierarchy that God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ set up - I am dishonoring the Son?

 

[Runningman]

Okay.

I never said that the Father is alone as the true God. That is your construct that isn't supported by the word "Alone" or "monos". You made that argument. Not me. I don't believe that argument is valid.

Alone has context. It is not the absence of Diety/Divinity "alone" to the exclusion of the Son.

I agree. We are "called gods". In fact, the goal of God in creating man is make man is His own image and after His own likeness, right? The "New Birth" relative to Eternal things.

Not that I believe I originate anything. I tried to have that conversation with you previously. If you would have "worked with me" in that, you will change your mind..... or plunge deeper into your mistakes.

Care to explain how you think this is my construct?

John 17:3
σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν Θεὸν
You The Only/Alone/Sole True God

It explicitly says that in the Greek. You are trying to minimize what it says because this verse is a threat to the trinity. The fact that this verse can be translated as “And this is eternal life: that they may know you, the true God alone, and Jesus Christ whom you sent" is a powerful testament to the authenticity and validity of Unitarianism and it actually nullifies trinitarianism. If this explicit statement about God doesn't get your attention, I really don't know what will. A hardened and darkened heart is a real thing.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Rockerduck, nothing that you said at Post 433 resembles three verses of scripture from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. Why am I not surprised?

I am not surprise at you, because you are not saved by the Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling you, you cannot see spiritual things in scripture.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

You are trying to change the goal post. Nothing that you said to me in your latest post resembles scripture that confirms Christendom's Trinity.

 

[Alter2Ego]

John 14:8-10
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9. Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10.Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works.…

Darby:

Jesus wasn't saying that he's literally combined into a single god along with the Father (Jehovah) as part of a Trinity. He was simply stating that he perfectly reflects Jehovah's qualities. Look at the word that I enlarged and reddened. See that? Jesus made it clear he was performing the works of an entirely different person. He said "his [the Father's] works" rather than saying "our works."

I will deal with a couple more of your verses of scripture in different posts.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Darby, look at the words that I enlarged in red. Those words indicate the Son (Jesus Christ) is a created being.


I will address one more of your cherry-picked verses for today. At another time, I will address the others.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

So you expect the rest of us to believe that God sat at his own right hand? Make it make sense, Darby.

 

[mikesw]

So you expect the rest of us to believe that God sat at his own right hand? Make it make sense, Darby.

Are you really so confused that the Son can sit next to the Father? I would think you would have that much figured out about the conventional view of the Father and Son.

 

[Darby]

I presuppose that the economic Trinity as revealed in the Bible accurately represents to finite creation who and what God is but, at the same time, the economic Trinity is by no means all that is God. Case in point, The Trinity or the attributes of Godness manifest equally in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Then you have the term perichoresis—the personal indwelling of each member of the Trinity in the other—as the primary sense of divine unity. There are three who are God yet one God.

 

[synergy]

Care to explain how you think this is my construct?

John 17:3
σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν Θεὸν
You The Only/Alone/Sole True God

Thank you for finally agreeing to the proper translation being "you, the only true God". Monotheistic Trinitarianism wins again.

It explicitly says that in the Greek. You are trying to minimize what it says because this verse is a threat to the trinity. The fact that this verse can be translated as “And this is eternal life: that they may know you, the true God alone, and Jesus Christ whom you sent" is a powerful testament to the authenticity and validity of Unitarianism and it actually nullifies trinitarianism. If this explicit statement about God doesn't get your attention, I really don't know what will. A hardened and darkened heart is a real thing.

In Gospel of John 17:3 the Greek phrase “σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεόν” literally means “you, the only true God,” where “only” (μόνον) modifies “true God” rather than the pronoun “you.” That supports Monotheism which Trinitarianism supports. Deliberately rewording it as you deviously attempt to do as “you, the true God alone” subtly shifts the emphasis so that “alone” appears to modify “you,” making the statement read as though the Father alone is the true God as a person, which is your diabolical goal. This deliberate rewording of yours does not reflect the grammatical structure of the Greek text and can therefore be cast out into oblivion.

 

[synergy]

Nothing that you said to me in your latest post resembles scripture that confirms Christendom's Trinity.

Last time we exchanged pleasantries, this is where we left off:

Again, you did nothing to address what I stated. So, instead of engaging my comments, you simply diverted away from it, thereby proving the very point I made about the non-Trinitarian habit of refusing to address the comprehensive biblical evidence of Divine Multi-Person Manifestations (Theophanies) unless it is reduced to a single proof-text containing the word “Trinity.”

Don't tell me you can't find the verses that speak about the Incarnation, one of many Theophanies of God. Hop to it.

 

[Runningman]

Thank you for finally agreeing to the proper translation being "you, the only true God". Monotheistic Trinitarianism wins again.

In Gospel of John 17:3 the Greek phrase “σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεόν” literally means “you, the only true God,” where “only” (μόνον) modifies “true God” rather than the pronoun “you.” That supports Monotheism which Trinitarianism supports. Deliberately rewording it as you deviously attempt to do as “you, the true God alone” subtly shifts the emphasis so that “alone” appears to modify “you,” making the statement read as though the Father alone is the true God as a person, which is your diabolical goal. This deliberate rewording of yours does not reflect the grammatical structure of the Greek text and can therefore be cast out into oblivion.

I am glad that you have acknowledge that my "construct" is identical to what Jesus said concerning God. It gives me great validation that you and @praise_yeshua would validate my commentary as on par with holy writ Scripture. I don't have a secret, I just repeat what Jesus said. Many people couldn't accept what he said even though they knew exactly what he was talking about, but on the matter who God is, Jesus confirmed that the the God the Jews believe in is the Father only, not a trinity.

The Jews were saying "Our God" is YHWH, always have. Jesus explicitly told them that their God is the Father and YHWH is the true God alone of Jews and Christians, not a trinity.

Jesus agreed with the Jews about who God is.

John 8
54Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory means nothing. The One who glorifies Me is My Father, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’

 

[Peterlag]

Hebrews 1:8...

• “Thy throne, O God” is a misleading translation. The verse is saying that the king’s authority comes FROM God, not that the king IS God.
• Psalm 45 never identifies the king AS God. It consistently presents him as blessed, anointed, and exalted BY God.
• The king cannot BE God because he HAS a God ("THY GOD hath anointed thee" - Heb.1:9). God does not have a God.
• Scholars acknowledge that “GOD IS THY THRONE” is both grammatically legitimate and conceptually correct.

“Thy throne O God” misrepresents the author’s meaning. The phrase is not intended to identify the king as God, but to declare that God is the foundation of his throne and power — that he reigns by God’s authority. The translation that preserves the author’s meaning is “God is thy throne”.