Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[mikesw]

FreeInChrist:

Since you realize Jehovah has no beginning based upon Psalm 90:2, then common sense should tell you that Jesus--who had a beginning--could not possibly be in a trinity in which Jesus the son and Jehovah the Father are the same god.

Duh. The One designated analogically as the Word becomes incarnate as Jesus and continues to exist but now we know as Jesus through incarnation. So one part that alter2ego has right is that the body of Jesus has a specific beginning. Alter2ego gets a half point on that post.

 

[Alter2Ego]

FreeInChrist:

I already went through this with you at Post 167. Below is the weblink.

"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (Psalm 90:2 -- New International Version)

Psalm 90 NIV

Definition of everlasting:
1: lasting or enduring through all time : eternal

Definition of EVERLASTING

lasting or enduring through all time : eternal; continuing for a long time or indefinitely; having or being flowers or foliage that retain form or color for a long time when dried… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

"Before the mountains were born Or before You had given birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are [the eternal] God." (Psalm 90:2 -- Amplified Bible)

Psalm 90 Amplified Bible

"Before the mountains were born, before You gave birth to the earth and the world, from eternity to eternity, You are God." (Psalm 90:2 -- Holman Christian Bible)

Psalm 90 HCSB

Definition of eternal:
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ).

eternal life.

ETERNAL Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

ETERNAL definition: without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ). See examples of eternal used in a sentence.

www.dictionary.com

No one ever said he YHWH ever had a beginning. No one ever siad the WORD had a beginning.

The verse tells us

You need to stop lying, FreeInChrist. At Post 168, I distinctly told you that Jesus Christ aka the Word is a created being based upon the fact that John 1:1, at Clause number 1, says the following:

"In the beginning was the Word....

I then directed you, at that same Post 168, to part of the context to at John 1:18 where it says:


"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18 -- King James Bible)

John 1 KJV

A begotten person is a created being, and all created beings had to have had a beginning. Below is the definition of "begotten."

begotten

2 of 2

adjective​

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Below is the link to Post 168. Go back and read it again, and you will see that I've already been through this with you.

Post in thread 'Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?'

Dec 23, 2025

atpollard:

John 1:1 has three independent clauses. Look at Clause #1. It says: "In the beginning was the Word...."

According to Christendom's Trinity, Jesus Christ aka "the Word" does not have a beginning.


Christendom's Trinity is defined as follows:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three persons, of ONE...

• Alter2Ego

 

[mikesw]

You need to stop lying, FreeInChrist. At Post 168, I distinctly told you that Jesus Christ aka the Word is a created being based upon the fact that John 1:1, at Clause number 1, says the following:

"In the beginning was the Word....

I then directed you, at that same Post 168, to part of the context to at John 1:18 where it says:


"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18 -- King James Bible)

John 1 KJV

A begotten person is a created being, and all created beings had to have had a beginning. Below is the definition of "begotten."

begotten

2 of 2

adjective​

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Below is the link to Post 168. Go back and read it again, and you will see that I've already been through this with you.

Post in thread 'Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?'

Dec 23, 2025

atpollard:

John 1:1 has three independent clauses. Look at Clause #1. It says: "In the beginning was the Word...."

According to Christendom's Trinity, Jesus Christ aka "the Word" does not have a beginning.


Christendom's Trinity is defined as follows:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three persons, of ONE...

• Alter2Ego

scripture seems to confuse alter2ego instead of explain who Jesus is. When someone finds John 1 so confusing ... maybe some people are not called to understand the Word who created the universe and then becomes incarnate as the Son of God. Alter2ego tries to argue from perhaps the more difficult wording than from the more direct wording -- both whether to include "begotten" in the translation and whether to accept both words "Son" and "God" in the Greek texts as pointing to the deity of Christ. So Alter2ego prefers to play with a stacked deck instead of understanding the scriptures.

In reality then, alter2ego cannot simply go with the John 1:18 as the "only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father" but must also show that "the only God who is the bosom of the Father" also rejects the deity of Christ. Otherwise, the argument against the deity of Christ falls in total failure.

 

[FreeInChrist]

FreeInChrist:

Since you realize Jehovah has no beginning based upon Psalm 90:2, then common sense should tell you that Jesus--who had a beginning--could not possibly be in a trinity in which Jesus the son and Jehovah the Father are the same god.

How is it possible that you do not comprehend who the Word was, and when He was?

In case it has escaped you or it never dawned on you the deity was not big on "formal" names in with OT or NT.

We had the Father... who also said in the OT as God revealed His name as "Yahweh" to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15, stating, "I AM WHO I AM." This name signifies His eternal and unchanging nature. Further Yahweh is the personal name of God in the Hebrew Bible, often associated with the meaning "I am" or "He brings into existence." It is not a proper name as IT signifies God's eternal and self-existent nature, and is considered sacred in Jewish tradition. And "Yahweh" is widely accepted as the most likely pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton YHWH, which represents the name of God in the Hebrew Bible. However, the exact pronunciation is not definitively known due to the absence of vowels in ancient Hebrew writing and historical traditions that avoided pronouncing the name

Note... even YHWH , which is only a guess as to how it is pronounced is not a formal name......

Enter now the Holy Spirit. Have you ever once heard a formal name applied to Him?

So we come to the Word... who as the Word (not a formal name) was with I am in the beginning... and this Word came to earth to be born in flesh, see John 1:14 ... DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR?... and an angel appeared to both Joseph and Mary about this and the name Jesus was told to name the baby when it was born.

YOU are 5000000000000 % correct when you say Jesus--who had a beginning- had a beginning because until he exited Mary's womb he was known as the Word.
This is fact and the Trinity from eternity back was I am, The Word and The Holy Spirit.....
Once The Word became flesh and mama and step dad named him Jesus as ordered by the angel then Jesus was no longer referenced as the Word on earth but as Jesus... and is why Jesus said
John 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus said he was existing before the world was..... But back then He was not called Jesus. (Ill let you research for yourself why that name was given to Him) Back then he was the Word.

Jesus was Jesus and also the Word

As I said Deity was not big on formal names......

 

[FreeInChrist]

You need to stop lying, FreeInChrist. At Post 168, I distinctly told you that Jesus Christ aka the Word is a created being based upon the fact that John 1:1, at Clause number 1, says the following:

"In the beginning was the Word....

I then directed you, at that same Post 168, to part of the context to at John 1:18 where it says:


"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18 -- King James Bible)

John 1 KJV

A begotten person is a created being, and all created beings had to have had a beginning. Below is the definition of "begotten."

Exactly when did this happen.... this created person who did the creation of all we know?

The Word was not created. Jesus became Jesus in Mary's belly. 4ooo years after the Word and I am and the Holy Spirit created the world that allowed Jesus to come from her.

Here are the facts....

Your argument collapses because it falsely equates “begotten” with “created.” Scripture never does that.
“Created” means brought into existence from non-existence. “Begotten” describes origin by nature, not manufacture. A son is begotten from the father’s own being; a creature is created outside the creator’s being. Conflating the two is a basic logical error.

John does not say the Word was created.....he says “In the beginning was the Word” (Jn 1:1). The verb was places the Word already existing when the beginning occurred. Paul agrees: “All things were created through Him… and He is before all things” (Col 1:16–17). You cannot be the creator of all created things and simultaneously be a created thing yourself.

Hebrews 1 is explicit: the Son is “the radiance of God’s glory and the exact imprint of His nature”—not a product, not a creature, but God’s own essence shared, not made. If “begotten” meant “created,” then God would have had to create His own nature, which is absurd and unbiblical.

Begotten does not = created.
That equation is imposed on Scripture; it is not derived from it.

Now pay attention.....

If “begotten” means “created,” then God created His own nature—which is nonsense.

Scripture never calls the Son created; it says “In the beginning was the Word” (John 1:1), placing Him already existing before creation began.

The Son creates all created things (Col. 1:16), so He cannot belong to the category He Himself created.

Begotten speaks of shared nature, not a starting point—created speaks of manufacture. Confusing the two is the error

begotten

2 of 2

adjective​

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent

Definition of BEGOTTEN

… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Below is the link to Post 168. Go back and read it again, and you will see that I've already been through this with you.

Post in thread 'Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?'

Dec 23, 2025

atpollard:

John 1:1 has three independent clauses. Look at Clause #1. It says: "In the beginning was the Word...."

According to Christendom's Trinity, Jesus Christ aka "the Word" does not have a beginning.


Christendom's Trinity is defined as follows:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three persons, of ONE...

• Alter2Ego