The Trinity study ,plural references to God in the Old Testament:Plural nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs
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Runningman
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You haven't even got your foot in the door finding support as you have been refuted every time you open your mouth.
Your "mighty one" doctrine is inconsistent. If being a mighty one means being God, then Nebuchadnezzar II, the king of Babylon at that time, is Lord God Almighty in your theology:
Ezekiel 31
11I will give it into the hand of a mighty one of the nations. He shall surely deal with it as its wickedness deserves. I have cast it out.
Given the context, it would only be king Solomon since David wrote so highly of him, had a foreign wife and daughters, etc. Are you trying to Psalm 45 is entirely about Jesus or just the parts you prviately decided are?
Psalm 45:2 says "You are the most handsome of the sons of men..."
But the Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 53:2 says of the coming Messiah: that he had "no beauty that we should desire him."
So right off the bat your interpretation contains a contradiction.
As previously stated, the only eternal throne Jesus was promised according to Scripture is the Davidic throne.
Luke 1
32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”
But the throne at the right hand of God is temporary (Hebrews 1:13, 1 Cor. 15)
No, I am showing you that your reasoning doesn't make any sense. Of course Jesus doesn't sit on the throne of God or else those who overcome would be sitting on the throne of God too.
See above.
Runningman
Active Member
Wife and husband is human to human. Jesus is human to God. You're confusing categories.
Yes, next fallacy indeed.
civic
Active Member
amazing grace
Active Member
Genetically, key word - genetically --- Jesus is an ancestor of David through Mary.
In order to be the Messiah - Jesus had to be from the lineage of David. Jesus belongs to the human race.
civic
Active Member
You left out His conceived by the Holy Spirit.
amazing grace
Active Member
Oh, actually Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Runningman
Active Member
I can see why you would want to transform the "divine" into something it isn't. It's because divinity is a property that humans can have and God has. So being divine doesn't make someone become God. God isn't a status or property, God is a specific person known as the Father.
As I prefer to quote Bible translations that abide in the process of modern textual criticism that aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages, I find no "mighty one"in that verse.
And as you quote a verse that "mighty one" does not refer to King Solomon just strengthened and proves my argument.
Eze 31:11 therefore I will give it into the hand of a despot of the nations; he will thoroughly deal with it. According to its wickedness I have driven it away.
How could it refer to Solomon that you yourself disproves your interpretation by quoting Ezekiel 31:11 that the "mighty one" refer to Nebuchadnezzar? You just weakened your own argument Runningman.
Why cut the verse?
You skipped the next phrase of the text that could only be applied to Christ, who is fairer than all other men and with grace always on his lips. (Luke 4:22)
Psa 45:2 You are fairer than the sons of men; Grace is poured upon Your lips; Therefore God has blessed You forever.
Luk 4:22 And all were speaking well of Him, and wondering at the gracious words which were falling from His lips; and they were saying, "Is this not Joseph's son?"
Yes, evidently Jesus, representing all men, was a very average looking man, with no particular beauty of either form or face. His beauty was inward, not outward. There is no description at all of His outward appearance in any of the four gospels.
One definition by Bible lexicon of the word "fairer" with Strong#H3302, in Hebrew יפה" yâphâh" means - to be bright.
Means "to be bright" as an inward beauty not outward.
H3302
יפה yâphâh
1) to be bright,
Yes, proves the fulfillment of Psalm 45:6,7, foreknown by the Father beforehand, the forever and ever throne will end in the hand of the holy Child, Jesus. Testified once and for all by the Father to the Son, as "Your throne, O God."
Luk 1:32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
Luk 1:33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
Luk 1:34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
Luk 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
But Jesus glorious throne, by the words of the Almighty God the Father Himself said as forever and ever.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Firstly, you just dismantle your own reasoning by quoting Ezekiel 31:11 Runningman.
Dismissing your argument that Solomon as the one referred as the "Mighty One."
Secondly, you deny the words of the Almighty God the Father Himself to the Son, "Your throne , O God."
Means those who overcome, God Jesus grant them to sit on His forever and ever throne, not the Father's throne.
Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Again, Jesus is His humanity can and does call God the Father His God, but the Father calls Jesus in His deity also as being very God, so both are true at same time, as Jesus NEVER stated that he Sonship is the same as the saved have, as He is by Nature very Son of God, while we have been adopted as such now
Jesus stated that he came down from heaven, who else has ever done that?
He fails to see that throughout the scriptures, there is an immediate fulfillment of prophecy many times, but that there is also a future and full fulfillment, and that persons such as a Joseph and a David can be and are types of the messiah that was still yet to come, so refers to both them and the greater Joseph and David still to come
Jesus was subordinate to the father while here upon the earth, bit both were still God
Runningman
Active Member
Many, but you won't understand this if you think it it refers to a literal descending from heaven.
John 3
7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘It is necessary for you to be born from above.
John 8
23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 17
16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
The Father called the Son very God
Runningman
Active Member
Jesus obeyed YHWH's command to sit at His right hand after being taken to heaven. That is an example of post-ascension subordination that occurred while not on earth.
Acts 2
34For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand
35until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”
Jesus always was at that position pre incarnation though
Runningman
Active Member
Let's try to work with with you said. Do you agree that "God by nature" is not the same as "God by person?"
Runningman
Active Member
There is no passage that says Jesus/the Son was at the right hand before he was born. There is nothing that says Jesus was incarnated.
The Deity that was with the father from all eternity became the man Jesus
