The Trinity and the Incarnation

[praise_yeshua]

A person can quote information from a source without being a student of that person. If I quoted a reference from Webster's dictionary would you ask me if I was a student of Noah Webster?

You can quote whatever you like. All you're quoting is a point of view. That is all.

If you're going to quote a source as being authoritative, then you better be prepared to know the author personally. Again. You don't represent the author of the source you quoted. Nor did you even recognize who that author was. How pitiful.

 

[amazing grace]

You missed something in what I asked.

I'll ask it differently.

1. Are you perfectly representing the Father yourself?

No. I fail quite miserably.

2. Are you equal in rank and value to the Son?

Yes, I am a human just as he is a human - he is my brother.

If you're going to talk about Jesus Christ, I'm going to talk about you. I am going to compare you to Him. Now don't run away. All you Unitarians are the same.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No. I fail quite miserably.

Good thing to admit. @Peterlag never does this. Never.

Yes, I am a human just as he is a human - he is my brother.

Don't be coy.

So Christ is just you're "better" brother?

 

[amazing grace]

You can quote whatever you like. All you're quoting is a point of view. That is all.

If you're going to quote a source as being authoritative, then you better be prepared to know the author personally. Again. You don't represent the author of the source you quoted. Nor did you even recognize who that author was. How pitiful.

I don't know Noah Webster personally but I have quoted his definitions from time to time . . . Where is the 'law' that if you source something you had better know them personally?

Jews would this: The Law of Agency deals with the status of a person (known as the agent) acting by direction of another (the principal), and thereby legally binding the principal in his connection with a third person. The person who binds a principal in this manner is his agent, known in Jewish law as sheluaḥ or sheliaḥ (one that is sent): the relation of the former to the latter is known as agency (sheliḥut). The general principle is enunciated thus: A man's agent is like himself. (Kid 41b)

AGENCY, LAW OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

You can easily look up the source which I did reference . . .

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't know Noah Webster personally but I have quoted his definitions from time to time . . . Where is the 'law' that if you source something you had better know them personally?

Ethics. Do you know Ethics?

You used the words you quoted from Cyrus in an authoritative manner. You're leaving that out of your response.

You can easily look up the source which I did reference . . .

You can do it yourself when you use them. Ethics.

So again. You don't speak for Cyrus. You can quote him all you want but don't pretend you understand his perspective. To do that, you must know Cyrus.

 

[amazing grace]

Good thing to admit. @Peterlag never does this. Never.

Don't be coy.

So Christ is just you're "better" brother?

Jesus is my brother as those who believe in him are his brothers/sisters.

For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. . . .Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. [Heb. 2:11,12,17]

 

[amazing grace]

Ethics. Do you know Ethics?

You used the words you quoted from Cyrus in an authoritative manner. You're leaving that out of your response.

You can do it yourself when you use them. Ethics.

So again. You don't speak for Cyrus. You can quote him all you want but don't pretend you understand his perspective. To do that, you must know Cyrus.

I noted and quoted my source . . . I did what was ethical.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus is my brother as those who believe in him are his brothers/sisters.

For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. . . .Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. [Heb. 2:11,12,17]

You can quote your Bible of choice all you like. Those words were not written by you.

I asked you if Jesus was just your "better brother"..... that is exactly what I see your position being. I can prove that. Keep talking.

So are you a High Priest?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I noted and quoted my source . . . I did what was ethical.

You referenced a website. That is all. Tell me to "look up the author" displays your unethical approach to information.

I want to speak to you. Not all these other people you're pretending to be.

 

[amazing grace]

delete

 

[amazing grace]

You can quote your Bible of choice all you like. Those words were not written by you.

I asked you if Jesus was just your "better brother"..... that is exactly what I see your position being. I can prove that. Keep talking.

So are you a High Priest?

Those scriptures were inspired by God.

Jesus was a better human being than I because he remained obedient to God his Father, thus being the perfect Lamb of God without spot or blemish ---- offered himself as a sacrifice for my sins ---- reconciling me back to God.

I never said I was a high priest - Jesus Christ is my high priest - Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; [Heb. 3:1]

 

[amazing grace]

You referenced a website. That is all. Tell me to "look up the author" displays your unethical approach to information.

I want to speak to you. Not all these other people you're pretending to be.

Yes, I referenced the website from which I quoted. Since I quoted the website from which I sourced my information I was not pretending to be them.

This is the last of which I will respond to this subject. Thanks.

 

[Peterlag]

BTW.... God has many names. Even among the Jews.

@amazing grace

I'm not going to dig into this thread to see what you've said. Speak plainly. What is your position?

Do you witness to the Majesty and Superiority of God Incarnate. Jesus Christ? One with the Father and the Son?

I can tell you. There is no other that can say "When you've see me, You've seen the Father."

You can't say such without lying. @Peterlag can't say such without lying.

Oh you want me to help you understand what you can tell me concerning...

"When you've see me, You've seen the Father."

Okay... John 14:9 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The key to understanding "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" is to know that the phrase “seen the Father” does not refer to seeing with one’s physical eyes but figuratively to “knowing the Father.” Jesus knew God, not because he lived and talked with God in heaven before his birth on earth, but because God revealed Himself more clearly to Jesus than He had to anyone else. Jesus made this clear in other teachings when he said “For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does…” (John 5:20).

In both Hebrew and Greek, words that are translated “see” throughout the Bible often mean “to know or realize.” The Hebrew word ra’ah is used for both seeing with the eyes and knowing something, or perceiving it (Genesis 16:4; Exodus 32:1; Numbers 20:29). Similarly, the Greek word horaō (ὁράω) translated “see” in John 1:18, 6:46; and 3 John 1:11, can mean “to see with the eyes” or “to see with the mind, to perceive, to know.” Even in English, one of the definitions for “see” is “to know or understand.” For example, when two people are discussing something, one might say to the other, “I see what you mean.”

The usage of “see” as it pertains to “knowing” is found in many places in the New Testament. For example, Jesus said to Philip, “…he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;…” (John 14:9). Here again the word “see” is used to indicate “knowing.” Anyone who knew Jesus (not just those who “saw” him) would know the Father. In fact, Jesus had made that clear two verses earlier when he said to Philip, “If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you know him, and have seen him” (John 14:7). In this verse, Jesus says that those who know him have “seen” the Father.

 

[charismaticlady]

Oh you want me to help you understand what you can tell me concerning...

"When you've see me, You've seen the Father."

Okay... John 14:9 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The key to understanding "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" is to know that the phrase “seen the Father” does not refer to seeing with one’s physical eyes but figuratively to “knowing the Father.” Jesus knew God, not because he lived and talked with God in heaven before his birth on earth, but because God revealed Himself more clearly to Jesus than He had to anyone else. Jesus made this clear in other teachings when he said “For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does…” (John 5:20).

In both Hebrew and Greek, words that are translated “see” throughout the Bible often mean “to know or realize.” The Hebrew word ra’ah is used for both seeing with the eyes and knowing something, or perceiving it (Genesis 16:4; Exodus 32:1; Numbers 20:29). Similarly, the Greek word horaō (ὁράω) translated “see” in John 1:18, 6:46; and 3 John 1:11, can mean “to see with the eyes” or “to see with the mind, to perceive, to know.” Even in English, one of the definitions for “see” is “to know or understand.” For example, when two people are discussing something, one might say to the other, “I see what you mean.”

The usage of “see” as it pertains to “knowing” is found in many places in the New Testament. For example, Jesus said to Philip, “…he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;…” (John 14:9). Here again the word “see” is used to indicate “knowing.” Anyone who knew Jesus (not just those who “saw” him) would know the Father. In fact, Jesus had made that clear two verses earlier when he said to Philip, “If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you know him, and have seen him” (John 14:7). In this verse, Jesus says that those who know him have “seen” the Father.

It is the same with those whose minds and hearts are born again. We are given the mind of Christ, 1 Cor. 2:16. Jesus had the mind of the Father. Jesus "embodied the Father and the Spirit, who are both invisible, but powerful. Col. 2:9 "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

 

[mikesw]

I believe that when the Angel of the Lord is recognized as Yahweh that the Angel of the Lord is Yahweh. It is not like that is the only evidence of the Triune God. But we see of the Two Powers in Heaven, that even Jews were investigating the curiosity of these passages.

The anticipated detail here is that no one is countering the Two Powers in Heaven as found in parables like the ones that mention the Angel of Yahweh then being found to be Yahweh

 

[praise_yeshua]

Those scriptures were inspired by God.

Jesus was a better human being than I because he remained obedient to God his Father, thus being the perfect Lamb of God without spot or blemish ---- offered himself as a sacrifice for my sins ---- reconciling me back to God.

I never said I was a high priest - Jesus Christ is my high priest - Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; [Heb. 3:1]

So you're not a High Priest. So why are you saying that Jesus is your "better brother"? I know why. You must because your position demands it.

I know you didn't say you were a High Priest but you certainly posted a verse of Scripture that said Jesus is.

So stop this nonsense that you're like Jesus and that Jesus is your "brother".

Cain was Abel's brother. We know what is destined for Cain.

So tell me again how you're like Jesus.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Oh you want me to help you understand what you can tell me concerning...

"When you've see me, You've seen the Father."

Okay... John 14:9 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The key to understanding "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" is to know that the phrase “seen the Father” does not refer to seeing with one’s physical eyes but figuratively to “knowing the Father.” Jesus knew God, not because he lived and talked with God in heaven before his birth on earth, but because God revealed Himself more clearly to Jesus than He had to anyone else. Jesus made this clear in other teachings when he said “For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does…” (John 5:20).

In both Hebrew and Greek, words that are translated “see” throughout the Bible often mean “to know or realize.” The Hebrew word ra’ah is used for both seeing with the eyes and knowing something, or perceiving it (Genesis 16:4; Exodus 32:1; Numbers 20:29). Similarly, the Greek word horaō (ὁράω) translated “see” in John 1:18, 6:46; and 3 John 1:11, can mean “to see with the eyes” or “to see with the mind, to perceive, to know.” Even in English, one of the definitions for “see” is “to know or understand.” For example, when two people are discussing something, one might say to the other, “I see what you mean.”

The usage of “see” as it pertains to “knowing” is found in many places in the New Testament. For example, Jesus said to Philip, “…he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;…” (John 14:9). Here again the word “see” is used to indicate “knowing.” Anyone who knew Jesus (not just those who “saw” him) would know the Father. In fact, Jesus had made that clear two verses earlier when he said to Philip, “If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you know him, and have seen him” (John 14:7). In this verse, Jesus says that those who know him have “seen” the Father.

All the bloviating dung and you're still not paying attention or intentionally ignoring the obvious.

No one can say that when they've "seen/known" you, that they've known the Father.

Yes. This is about you. You're nothing like the Father. Jesus is. You're not. Your friend isn't either.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is the same with those whose minds and hearts are born again. We are given the mind of Christ, 1 Cor. 2:16. Jesus had the mind of the Father. Jesus "embodied the Father and the Spirit, who are both invisible, but powerful. Col. 2:9 "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Don't confuse what he believes with what you believe. We've discussed this before. He isn't like you.

I will remind you, that you're a very poor representation of the Father. I know you think you are because you can read some verses in the Bible you claim are for you. You can't simply claim them and not prove it.

I think I've asked you this before but I'll ask again. Maybe they can understand how poorly they represent the Father while claiming that Jesus is just like them......

I've been rather good over the years of point out the obvious.

So why do you need to be resurrected from the grave if you're just like Jesus now? I don't expect you to answer. Surprise me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, I referenced the website from which I quoted. Since I quoted the website from which I sourced my information I was not pretending to be them.

This is the last of which I will respond to this subject. Thanks.

When you reference them as being true to fact, you letting them speak for YOU.

I know this is the last you will respond because you can't win this argument. I realized this a very long time ago. Your friend @Peterlag loves to pretend he originates everything. He does it over and over again.

Do you realize how petty and insignificant it is for someone to reference what someone else said or did? You're acting as if you can actually repeat the same.

You can't. It is an evil of this age. You have all this information at your fingertips and you couldn't reproduce it if you tried. You couldn't. You didn't make anything. You didn't originate anything. You couldn't save anyone yourself.

It really is a farce for you to claim such.

I like this forum. It allows me to really deal with the issues. Those issues are YOU. You actually believe that since you've read what someone else has said, that you understand everything those words mean. You don't. It is such a ridiculous position. A powerless position that even Satan himself believes.

 

[amazing grace]

So you're not a High Priest. So why are you saying that Jesus is your "better brother"? I know why. You must because your position demands it.

Scripture says Jesus is my brother.

I know you didn't say you were a High Priest but you certainly posted a verse of Scripture that said Jesus is.

Yes, I posted scripture that said Jesus is.

So stop this nonsense that you're like Jesus and that Jesus is your "brother".

Cain was Abel's brother. We know what is destined for Cain.

So tell me again how you're like Jesus.

I admitted I was not perfect.