praise_yeshua
Active Member
He knows. He is making a make a willing choice to ignore it.
A Personal Reflection on the Trinity and Salvation
- Thread starter GallagherM
- Start date
I think it would be useful for the NT translations (and Greek?) to mark the NT quotes of OT passages having Yahweh with an indicator of or just direct use of Yahweh or YHWH. Maybe the drawback would be that other passages also imply Yahweh but are not a quote of the OT. This idea then would not be perfect. Okay. Just as a footnote.
civic
Active Member
We can see from the NASB in several places where its YHWH in the OT and Paul quotes the passage in the N.T. using Lord and applies it to the Son- Jesus Christ. Romans 10:8-17 is a great example in the NASB.
the NASB follows the convention of translating the Greek word kyrios (Lord) where the Old Testament text quoted or referenced the Hebrew name YHWH. The Septuagint, the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament, replaced YHWH with the Greek word kyrios ("Lord")
See below
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 10 - New American Standard Bible
The Word of Faith Brings Salvation - Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish...
GallagherM
Active Member
Thanks for all the comments.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
YHWH is fabrication that has its origins in a people that rejected God. They so lost contact with "Jehovah" that they fabricated the nonsense of YHWH. Ironically such has its origins in Greek. Not Hebrew.
The "name" of God isn't really the issue. It is how people approach God. I think you've probably experienced this in your life. When someone learns your name, they think they know you. That is what the "vain" aspect of using God's name haphazardly./ "in vain".
Adam named many things. God knew what He created differently than Adam knew them/it. Adam/man has spent their entire lives trying to know what God knows without asking Him to teach them. I tell people all the time, if you want to know what I think. Ask me. Don't assume anything.
We experience God in our own lives by interaction with others and learning what it means to communicate and how we communicate.
I've been in a very big hurry lately. I've read back through some of my responses and they look terrible. I apologize for being so careless in some of my responses.
Runningman
Active Member
Funny, YHWH is literally written explicitly into the original Old Testament manuscripts thousands of times and has remained there for thousands of years and you're calling it a fabrication. You are the only person I have ever seen say this and I am aware of no scholars who agree with you. What you're pushing is a very fringe doctrine and it looks antisemitic almost.
I know why you are denying this, though. Because God being named YHWH is a very problematic issue for the deity of Jesus. Jesus isn't named YHWH nor ever called that in all of Scripture.
I believe that the Tetragrammaton was originally written as " יהוה".
Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Yisra’ěl: יהוה our Elohim, יהוה is one!
FreeInChrist
Active Member
FYI:
Research indicates, so someone prove this is wrong.
The claim that "YHWH is a fabrication that has its origins in a people that rejected God" is not supported by historical, archaeological, or textual evidence. Here's a concise breakdown of why it's inaccurate:
Research indicates, so someone prove this is wrong.
The claim that "YHWH is a fabrication that has its origins in a people that rejected God" is not supported by historical, archaeological, or textual evidence. Here's a concise breakdown of why it's inaccurate:
- Origins of YHWH worship
- The earliest attested references to YHWH (the Tetragrammaton, the personal name of the God of Israel) appear in ancient Near Eastern sources from the 14th–9th centuries BCE, including Egyptian inscriptions (e.g., the Soleb and Amarah-West references to “Yhw in the land of the Shasu,” ca. 1400–1200 BCE) and the Mesha Stele (Moabite, ca. 840 BCE), which mentions Israel and YHWH together.
- These predate the biblical text and show YHWH was already the national god of early Israel and parts of Edom/Midian by the late Bronze/early Iron Age.
- Scholarly consensus on Israelite origins
- Most scholars (the mainstream “supplementary” or “Canaanite origins” models) see early Israel emerging from within Canaanite society around 1200–1000 BCE. YHWH worship likely originated in the southern deserts (Midian/Edom/Seir region—see references in Deuteronomy 33:2, Judges 5:4–5, Habakkuk 3:3, and the Kenite/Midianite hypothesis), then merged with Canaanite El traditions as highland tribes coalesced into “Israel.”
- There is no evidence that the people who first worshipped YHWH “rejected God” in the sense the claim implies. Rather, they appear to have adopted and elevated YHWH over other Canaanite deities (especially Baal) in a process of religious differentiation.
- The biblical narrative vs. history
- The Hebrew Bible itself presents YHWH as the one true God who chose Israel, not as a “fabrication” invented by a people who first rejected a different God. Even the Bible’s own polemics (e.g., against Baal or the golden calf) portray deviations as later apostasy, not as the origin of YHWH worship.
- Claims that YHWH was originally a pagan deity whom a rebellious group repurposed are speculative fringe theories (e.g., some older versions of the “Yahweh-from-Midian” hypothesis taken to extremes) that lack mainstream scholarly support.
- Alternative fringe theoriesSome modern internet-era claims (often from certain atheist, mythicists, or Black Hebrew Israelite circles) assert that YHWH was “invented” by Canaanites, Edomites, or post-exilic Jews who supposedly “rejected the true God.” These ideas usually rely on selective readings, out-of-context quotations, or outright fabrication and are not accepted in academic biblical studies or ancient Near Eastern history.
Runningman
Active Member
Yes, I already know that, but some of your wildly confused brethren do not. Try helping them.
I believe I am trying to help you Runningman.
Who do you believe the Father name is?
Prove and post it here Runningman.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You cannot explain your way past the plurality of Elohim.
Fact....
“Actually, the plurality of Elohim is one of the strongest Old Testament proofs for the Trinity, not for polytheism or Arianism. Here’s why:
Elohim is plural in form but takes singular verbs over 2,500 timesGenesis 1:1 – בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים – “In the beginning created (singular verb) Elohim…”If the Bible wanted to teach polytheism, it would have used plural verbs. Instead, it deliberately pairs the plural noun with singular verbs every time it refers to the true God ~ screaming “plurality within unity.”
and check out the following verses..
Genesis 1:26 – “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness”
Genesis 3:22 – “Man has become like one of Us”
Genesis 11:7 – “Come, let Us go down”
Isaiah 6:8 – “Who will go for Us?”
This is important..........The speaker is the one Elohim (singular verbs everywhere else), yet He speaks as a plurality.
The ONLY explanation that fits all the data is the one the New Testament later spells out: one God in three Persons.
SO, no, the plurality of Elohim is not something we Trinitarians have to ‘explain away’ .....it’s one of the clearest Old Testament fingerprints of the Trinity.
The Hebrew grammar is practically shouting, ‘There is complexity inside the unity of God!’ That’s why the Shema (Deut 6:4) can say “Hear, O Israel: YHWH our Elohim is one YHWH” — the plural Elohim is one single YHWH.
Far from being a problem for the Trinity, Elohim is exhibit A that the Trinity is taught in the Torah itself.”
Runningman
Active Member
I like good questions. The Father is named YHWH and the Bible explicitly says this much.
The Father is the Lord of heaven and earth, a title never given to Jesus once in Scripture:
Matthew 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Yet the heavens and earth are said to belong to YHWH.
Deut. 10
14Behold, to the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, and the earth and everything in it.
The Father is the only true God:
John 17
1When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
Scripture explicitly identifies YHWH as the only true God:
Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD, and there is no other;
there is no God but Me.
I will equip you for battle,
though you have not known Me,
YHWH explicitly called the Father, but never Son:
Isaiah 63
16Yet You are our Father,
though Abraham does not know us
and Israel does not acknowledge us.
You, O LORD, are our Father;
our Redeemer from Everlasting is Your name.
Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD, You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.
New Testament quotes YHWH passages (Proverbs 3:11,12) and applies them to the Father:
Hebrews 12
5And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons:
“My son, do not take lightly the discipline of the Lord,
and do not lose heart when He rebukes you.
6For the Lord disciplines the one He loves,
and He chastises every son He receives.”
7Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. 9Furthermore, we have all had earthly fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them. Should we not much more submit to the Father of our spirits and live?
YHWH's words quoted from 2 Samuel 7:14 and Psalm 2:7 and applied to the Father:
Hebrews 1
5For to which of the angels did God ever say:
“You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father”?
And a ton more.
Good, but Who do you think the named "YHWH" that was seen and speak in the Old Testament Runningman?
Do you think Jesus was wrong when He said neither heard the Father's voice anytime and seen His form?
Joh 5:37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
Joh 17:12 "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
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