The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[Runningman]

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35–110 AD), in his Letter to the Ephesians, speaks of "our Lord and God, Jesus Christ," emphasizing worship and acknowledgment of His divine authority, which extends to prayer and supplication.

Polycarp of Smyrna (c. 69–155 AD) in The Martyrdom of Polycarp, reportedly prayed to Jesus in his final moments, addressing Him as "King of the ages" and asking to be accepted into His presence.

Justin Martyr (c. 100–165 AD) describes Christians as those who "pray to be delivered by Jesus crucified" (First Apology), expressing a clear indication of Jesus' divine role in receiving prayer.

Each of these early figures points to Jesus as a fitting object of prayer, recognizing His divine nature. Their writings often merge worship with invocation, signaling early acceptance of praying to Jesus as God.

Clement of Rome (c. 96 AD): In 1 Clement 59, he offers a prayer that calls upon Jesus as Lord, showing early acknowledgment of Jesus as a recipient of prayer in the church.

The Didache (c. 50–100 AD): While not strictly a “church father,” this early Christian document provides prayers in Jesus’ name and affirms worship of Him, including elements that approach direct invocation.

Tertullian (c. 155–240 AD): In Against Praxeas, Tertullian defends praying to Jesus by stressing His divine nature, highlighting that Christians address Him in prayer as God.

Origen (c. 184–253 AD): In On Prayer, Origen explains that Jesus is to be honored alongside the Father, indicating that prayer to Jesus is theologically appropriate, as He mediates between God and humanity.

Hippolytus of Rome (c. 170–235 AD): In Apostolic Tradition, Hippolytus outlines prayers that directly address Jesus, emphasizing His divine authority as worthy of supplication.

Cyprian of Carthage (c. 200–258 AD): In On the Lord's Prayer, Cyprian teaches that invoking Jesus' name is fundamental in Christian prayer, reinforcing the belief in His divine mediation.

These writings collectively illustrate that early Christians practiced praying to Jesus, grounded in their recognition of His divinity and role as intercessor.

It would be real silly of you if you don't acknowledge the ECFs on this doctrine of the Deity of Christ Jesus and prayers to Him
@Runningman.

J.

Just referring to the Bible, not what people decided to do later. The Bible, the inspired scripture, doesn’t contain any information about praying to Jesus.

 

[Johann]

I don’t mean “pray to God” or “pray to YHWH” or “pray to the Lord” and then you claim it’s referring to Jesus. Or calling out to Jesus, or appealing to Jesus, etc. There is nothing in scripture about praying to Jesus, or Son, or Word, etc.

You err-

προσκυνέω (proskyneō) - "To Worship, Bow Down"

The verb proskyneō is used frequently in the New Testament to describe worship directed to Jesus, especially in contexts where His divine status is recognized. This term, common in Septuagint (LXX) to denote worship due to Yahweh, reflects acts of reverence that extend beyond honor to actual worship:

Matthew 2:11: The Magi “fell down and worshiped” (prosekyneōsan) Jesus as a newborn, a significant acknowledgment of His kingly and divine identity.

Matthew 14:33: Following Jesus’ miracle of walking on water, His disciples “worshiped” (prosekyneōsan) Him, confessing, “Truly, you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9, 17: After the resurrection, both women and disciples meet the risen Christ, falling before Him in worship, affirming Him as divine.

John 9:38: The healed blind man declares faith in Jesus and worships (proskyneō) Him, an act typically reserved for God.

Revelation 5:13-14: In this heavenly vision, all creation worships (proskyneō) both God and the Lamb (Jesus), placing Jesus on equal footing with the Father.
This worship implies recognition of Jesus as possessing divine authority, sharing the same status as God within worshipful acts.

2. ἐπικαλέω (epikaleō) - "To Call Upon, Invoke"
The term epikaleō, meaning to call upon or invoke, is often associated with prayer.

Its use with Jesus as the recipient of invocation strengthens the understanding that early Christians regarded Him as an active divine figure they could directly address:

Acts 7:59: Stephen, as he is martyred, explicitly “calls upon” (epikaloumenon) Jesus, saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Here, Stephen’s invocation of Jesus in his final moments is significant, paralleling Jesus’ own prayer to the Father during His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

1 Corinthians 1:2: Paul writes to believers “who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,” reflecting the practice of directing prayer and supplication to Jesus. This phrase echoes Old Testament patterns of invoking Yahweh's name, which adds weight to the claim of Jesus’ divine status.

3. δέομαι (deomai) and προσεύχομαι (proseuchomai) - "To Pray, Make Supplication"
These terms directly refer to prayer, with proseuchomai being the most commonly used verb for "to pray" in the New Testament.

Jesus encourages prayer directed to Him, indicating that His role includes intercession and response to believers’ requests:

John 14:13-14: Jesus tells His disciples, “Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do,” showing that prayer is to be directed through Him. The phrase ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ με (“if you ask Me anything”) includes a personal pronoun (me) that indicates direct address to Jesus Himself.

Acts 9:14, 21: In reference to the early Christians, Paul is said to have found “those who call on Your name,” referring to Jesus. Here, deomai and proseuchomai are implied, as these followers are distinguished by their prayer and devotion to Jesus.

4. λατρεύω (latreuō) - "To Serve or Worship as Divine Service"

In Greek, latreuō is used specifically for worshipful service to God, indicating acts that honor and serve Him exclusively. Although Jesus does not often receive latreuō directly, there are significant passages that depict Him in roles that command worship:

Philippians 2:10-11: Paul speaks of how every knee shall bow to Jesus, “in heaven and on earth and under the earth,” and every tongue confess Him as Lord. This passage echoes Isaiah 45:23, where such devotion is due to Yahweh, now attributed to Jesus, showing that He shares in the divine identity and is worthy of the same devotion.

Revelation 22:3: The Lamb (Jesus) receives eternal worship along with God, where latreuō indicates divine service. This worship is not separated between God and Jesus, suggesting the Lamb’s equal share in divine status.

5. ὁμολογέω (homologeō) and δοξάζω (doxazō) - "To Confess" and "To Glorify"
These terms are not strictly about prayer, but they describe actions that ascribe divine honor and recognition to Jesus:

Romans 10:9-13: Paul urges believers to “confess” (homologeō) Jesus as Lord, noting that “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” The phrase “call on the name of the Lord” is a reference to the Old Testament formula used exclusively for Yahweh (Joel 2:32) but now applied to Jesus, indicating prayer and worship directed to Him.
Hebrews 1:6: God commands all angels to worship (proskyneō) Jesus, implying that divine honor belongs to Him as the Son.

Tell me I'm in error @Runningman.

J.

 

[Johann]

Just referring to the Bible, not what people decided to do later. The Bible, the inspired scripture, doesn’t contain any information about praying to Jesus.

Already answered.

J.

 

[Johann]

Just referring to the Bible, not what people decided to do later. The Bible, the inspired scripture, doesn’t contain any information about praying to Jesus.

Careful not to be too narrow minded @Runningman.

In any given debate you are entitled to use secondary sources -in this case the ECFs.

J.

 

[Runningman]

DO YOU believe in the Trinity? Most people in Christendom do. After all, it has been the central doctrine of the churches for centuries. In view of this, you would think that there could be no question about it. But there is, and lately even some of its supporters have added fuel to the controversy.	Number of Jehovah's Witnesses who have left the organization after reading this page: coming
Why should a subject like this be of any more than passing interest? Because Jesus himself said: "Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." So our entire future hinges on our knowing the true nature of God, and that means getting to the root of the Trinity controversy. Therefore, why not examine it for yourself?-John 17:3, Catholic Jerusalem Bible (JB).	The quickest way to see the mistake in the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of John 17:3 is in Eph 4:4-6. ("there is one God and one Lord") If "One God" excludes Jesus from God, then "One Lord" excludes God from being Lord. Yet we know that they share these identical characteristics. Jehovah is not only called the Only true God (John 17:3), but the "Only Saviour" (Isa 43:11; 45:21; Hos 13:4; Jude 25) , "Only King" (Zech 14:9). If John 17:3 excludes Jesus from being "True God", then Jesus is also excluded from being a Saviour or King. Click link for more.
Various Trinitarian concepts exist. But generally the Trinity teaching is that in the Godhead there are three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; yet, together they are but one God. The doctrine says that the three are coequal, almighty, and uncreated, having existed eternally in the Godhead.	Jesus is coequal with the Father being the same class of uncreated being, but not equal (subordinate) with the Father in rank. JW's deliberately confuse these two important issues. A wife is coequal with her husband as a class of created being called "man", but no equal (subordinate) with her husband in rank. Eph 5:23
Others, however, say that the Trinity doctrine is false, that Almighty God stands alone as a separate, eternal, and all-powerful being. They say that Jesus in his prehuman existence was, like the angels, a separate spirit person created by God, and for this reason he must have had a beginning. They teach that Jesus has never been Almighty God's equal in any sense; he has always been subject to God and still is. They also believe that the holy ghost is not a person but God's spirit, his active force.

Hello Johann, thanks for the good points but I am not a JW. I have never studied their material nor read much of their Bible translation or visited any of their churches.

While it’s true that present day JWs have adopted a biblical view of God, appealing to the number of people who outnumber them is not necessarily a good guide for what is true.

Trinitarianism actually wasn’t the dominant sect at the time it was forming and they were finding their identity. They also have changed a lot over the years. What is considered the orthodox in Trinitarianism nowadays wasn’t what was the established standard throughout their history. A study on how they have changed and developed is an involved one. They also didn’t come to prominence organically but rather through conquest and brute force in many cases. As we know, that also isn’t an indicator of a sign of divine blessing on an idea. Many ideologies have been perpetuated through use of force that are not necessarily true.

I would suggest you try to get back to the roots about what the earliest view of God is. In Jewish theology, from a historic and orthodox perspective, they hold an identical view of God as do the JWs. The foundation of who the Scriptural God is is a singular person named YHWH but they refer to Him as Jehova. Jesus called Him Father as do Christians.

 

[Runningman]

Careful not to be too narrow minded @Runningman.

In any given debate you are entitled to use secondary sources -in this case the ECFs.

J.

I’m just sticking with the proof from my OP. It’s correct. Jesus was never prayed to in scripture. Do you think communicating with someone in heaven necessarily means it’s prayer?

 

[Johann]

Hello Johann, thanks for the good points but I am not a JW. I have never studied their material nor read much of their Bible translation or visited any of their churches.

While it’s true that present day JWs have adopted a biblical view of God, appealing to the number of people who outnumber them is not necessarily a good guide for what is true.

Trinitarianism actually wasn’t the dominant sect at at the time it was forming and they were finding their identity. They also have changed a lot over the years. What is considered the orthodox in Trinitarianism nowadays wasn’t what was the established standard throughout their history. A study on how they have changed and developed is involved one. They also didn’t come to prominence organically but rather through conquest and brute force in many cases. As we know, that also isn’t an indicator of or a sign of divine blessing on an idea. Many ideologies have been perpetuated through use of force that are not necessarily true.

I would suggest you try to get back to the roots about what the earliest view of God is. In Jewish theology, from a historic and orthodox perspective, they hold an identical view of God as do the JWs. The foundation of who the Scriptural God is is a singular person named YHWH but they refer to Him as Jehova.

From an Orthodox or Ultra-Orthodox Jewish standpoint? Are you serious?

J.

 

[Runningman]

You err-

προσκυνέω (proskyneō) - "To Worship, Bow Down"

The verb proskyneō is used frequently in the New Testament to describe worship directed to Jesus, especially in contexts where His divine status is recognized. This term, common in Septuagint (LXX) to denote worship due to Yahweh, reflects acts of reverence that extend beyond honor to actual worship:

Matthew 2:11: The Magi “fell down and worshiped” (prosekyneōsan) Jesus as a newborn, a significant acknowledgment of His kingly and divine identity.

Matthew 14:33: Following Jesus’ miracle of walking on water, His disciples “worshiped” (prosekyneōsan) Him, confessing, “Truly, you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9, 17: After the resurrection, both women and disciples meet the risen Christ, falling before Him in worship, affirming Him as divine.

John 9:38: The healed blind man declares faith in Jesus and worships (proskyneō) Him, an act typically reserved for God.

Revelation 5:13-14: In this heavenly vision, all creation worships (proskyneō) both God and the Lamb (Jesus), placing Jesus on equal footing with the Father.
This worship implies recognition of Jesus as possessing divine authority, sharing the same status as God within worshipful acts.

2. ἐπικαλέω (epikaleō) - "To Call Upon, Invoke"
The term epikaleō, meaning to call upon or invoke, is often associated with prayer.

Its use with Jesus as the recipient of invocation strengthens the understanding that early Christians regarded Him as an active divine figure they could directly address:

Acts 7:59: Stephen, as he is martyred, explicitly “calls upon” (epikaloumenon) Jesus, saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Here, Stephen’s invocation of Jesus in his final moments is significant, paralleling Jesus’ own prayer to the Father during His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

1 Corinthians 1:2: Paul writes to believers “who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,” reflecting the practice of directing prayer and supplication to Jesus. This phrase echoes Old Testament patterns of invoking Yahweh's name, which adds weight to the claim of Jesus’ divine status.

3. δέομαι (deomai) and προσεύχομαι (proseuchomai) - "To Pray, Make Supplication"
These terms directly refer to prayer, with proseuchomai being the most commonly used verb for "to pray" in the New Testament.

Jesus encourages prayer directed to Him, indicating that His role includes intercession and response to believers’ requests:

John 14:13-14: Jesus tells His disciples, “Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do,” showing that prayer is to be directed through Him. The phrase ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ με (“if you ask Me anything”) includes a personal pronoun (me) that indicates direct address to Jesus Himself.

Acts 9:14, 21: In reference to the early Christians, Paul is said to have found “those who call on Your name,” referring to Jesus. Here, deomai and proseuchomai are implied, as these followers are distinguished by their prayer and devotion to Jesus.

4. λατρεύω (latreuō) - "To Serve or Worship as Divine Service"

In Greek, latreuō is used specifically for worshipful service to God, indicating acts that honor and serve Him exclusively. Although Jesus does not often receive latreuō directly, there are significant passages that depict Him in roles that command worship:

Philippians 2:10-11: Paul speaks of how every knee shall bow to Jesus, “in heaven and on earth and under the earth,” and every tongue confess Him as Lord. This passage echoes Isaiah 45:23, where such devotion is due to Yahweh, now attributed to Jesus, showing that He shares in the divine identity and is worthy of the same devotion.

Revelation 22:3: The Lamb (Jesus) receives eternal worship along with God, where latreuō indicates divine service. This worship is not separated between God and Jesus, suggesting the Lamb’s equal share in divine status.

5. ὁμολογέω (homologeō) and δοξάζω (doxazō) - "To Confess" and "To Glorify"
These terms are not strictly about prayer, but they describe actions that ascribe divine honor and recognition to Jesus:

Romans 10:9-13: Paul urges believers to “confess” (homologeō) Jesus as Lord, noting that “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” The phrase “call on the name of the Lord” is a reference to the Old Testament formula used exclusively for Yahweh (Joel 2:32) but now applied to Jesus, indicating prayer and worship directed to Him.
Hebrews 1:6: God commands all angels to worship (proskyneō) Jesus, implying that divine honor belongs to Him as the Son.

Tell me I'm in error @Runningman.

J.

You’re in error. I’m on my phone right now and not about to write a dissertation on all of this. When I get to my study later I’ll go through your points with you and show you how you are talking these ideas too far and the nuances regarding bowing that exist in scripture.

 

[Johann]

I’m just sticking with the proof from my OP. It’s correct. Jesus was never prayed to in scripture. Do you think communicating with someone in heaven necessarily means it’s prayer?

Why dodging this @Runningman?


You err-

προσκυνέω (proskyneō) - "To Worship, Bow Down"

The verb proskyneō is used frequently in the New Testament to describe worship directed to Jesus, especially in contexts where His divine status is recognized. This term, common in Septuagint (LXX) to denote worship due to Yahweh, reflects acts of reverence that extend beyond honor to actual worship:

Matthew 2:11: The Magi “fell down and worshiped” (prosekyneōsan) Jesus as a newborn, a significant acknowledgment of His kingly and divine identity.

Matthew 14:33: Following Jesus’ miracle of walking on water, His disciples “worshiped” (prosekyneōsan) Him, confessing, “Truly, you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9, 17: After the resurrection, both women and disciples meet the risen Christ, falling before Him in worship, affirming Him as divine.

John 9:38: The healed blind man declares faith in Jesus and worships (proskyneō) Him, an act typically reserved for God.

Revelation 5:13-14: In this heavenly vision, all creation worships (proskyneō) both God and the Lamb (Jesus), placing Jesus on equal footing with the Father.
This worship implies recognition of Jesus as possessing divine authority, sharing the same status as God within worshipful acts.

2. ἐπικαλέω (epikaleō) - "To Call Upon, Invoke"
The term epikaleō, meaning to call upon or invoke, is often associated with prayer.

Its use with Jesus as the recipient of invocation strengthens the understanding that early Christians regarded Him as an active divine figure they could directly address:

Acts 7:59: Stephen, as he is martyred, explicitly “calls upon” (epikaloumenon) Jesus, saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Here, Stephen’s invocation of Jesus in his final moments is significant, paralleling Jesus’ own prayer to the Father during His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

1 Corinthians 1:2: Paul writes to believers “who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,” reflecting the practice of directing prayer and supplication to Jesus. This phrase echoes Old Testament patterns of invoking Yahweh's name, which adds weight to the claim of Jesus’ divine status.

3. δέομαι (deomai) and προσεύχομαι (proseuchomai) - "To Pray, Make Supplication"
These terms directly refer to prayer, with proseuchomai being the most commonly used verb for "to pray" in the New Testament.

Jesus encourages prayer directed to Him, indicating that His role includes intercession and response to believers’ requests:

John 14:13-14: Jesus tells His disciples, “Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do,” showing that prayer is to be directed through Him. The phrase ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ με (“if you ask Me anything”) includes a personal pronoun (me) that indicates direct address to Jesus Himself.

Acts 9:14, 21: In reference to the early Christians, Paul is said to have found “those who call on Your name,” referring to Jesus. Here, deomai and proseuchomai are implied, as these followers are distinguished by their prayer and devotion to Jesus.

4. λατρεύω (latreuō) - "To Serve or Worship as Divine Service"

In Greek, latreuō is used specifically for worshipful service to God, indicating acts that honor and serve Him exclusively. Although Jesus does not often receive latreuō directly, there are significant passages that depict Him in roles that command worship:

Philippians 2:10-11: Paul speaks of how every knee shall bow to Jesus, “in heaven and on earth and under the earth,” and every tongue confess Him as Lord. This passage echoes Isaiah 45:23, where such devotion is due to Yahweh, now attributed to Jesus, showing that He shares in the divine identity and is worthy of the same devotion.

Revelation 22:3: The Lamb (Jesus) receives eternal worship along with God, where latreuō indicates divine service. This worship is not separated between God and Jesus, suggesting the Lamb’s equal share in divine status.

5. ὁμολογέω (homologeō) and δοξάζω (doxazō) - "To Confess" and "To Glorify"
These terms are not strictly about prayer, but they describe actions that ascribe divine honor and recognition to Jesus:

Romans 10:9-13: Paul urges believers to “confess” (homologeō) Jesus as Lord, noting that “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” The phrase “call on the name of the Lord” is a reference to the Old Testament formula used exclusively for Yahweh (Joel 2:32) but now applied to Jesus, indicating prayer and worship directed to Him.
Hebrews 1:6: God commands all angels to worship (proskyneō) Jesus, implying that divine honor belongs to Him as the Son.

Tell me I'm in error @Runningman.

J.

 

[Johann]

You’re in error. I’m on my phone right now and not about to write a dissertation on all of this. When I get to my study later I’ll go through your points with you and show you how you are talking these ideas too far and the nuances regarding bowing that exist in scripture.

No worries, I'm going to make coffee.

J.

 

[Runningman]

From an Orthodox or Ultra-Orthodox Jewish standpoint? Are you serious?

J.

Standard Orthodox Judaism is not compatible with Trinitarianism. Remember, the New Covenant is Christianity and the New Covenant is what was given to the Jews. A new concept of God was not included in this New Covenant. The scriptural and extra-scriptural writings on God never describe him as three persons in one Godhead. There is a long rich history on who the Hebrew God is with tons of commentary.

 

[Johann]

Standard Orthodox Judaism is not compatible with Trinitarianism. Remember, the New Covenant is Christianity and the New Covenant is what was given to the Jews. A new concept of God was not included in this New Covenant. The scriptural and extra-scriptural writings on God never describe him as three persons in one Godhead. There is a long rich history on who the Hebrew God is with tons of commentary.

Many Jewish thinkers have recognized there is Trinitarian evidence in the old testament and this video goes over these facts.

The Trinity in the Old Testament: • The Trinity in the Old Testament


Sources:

Found JS - All about Betting

Soccer Betting Analysis - Get The Chance to find How Handicap Betting works in soccer betting

podcast.foundjs.org

The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel - Dr. Benjamin Sommer

http://www.biblestudying.net/trinity9...

Genesis, The JPS Torah Commentary - Nahum Sarna

Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus - Dr. Michael Brown

The Works of Philo - Translated by C. D. Yonge

Since we’re having a friendly debate, I’d appreciate it if you could take a moment to listen to this short clip on how the Triune Godhead is recognized by certain Sages and Rabbis.

--and share any source you think I should read.

Angel of the LORD | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

J.

 

[TomL]

Acts 1:24-25 is a prayer to the Father. The Father is Lord, too. All precedent is praying to the Father. Doesn’t follow sound reason that without comment and against the teachings of Jesus that they would begin abruptly praying to Jesus.

There aren’t any explicit examples of praying to Jesus in scripture. Looking for you to at least admit this. Forget the idea of “giving up.” I hold the high ground in this thread and I will not be relinquishing that any time soon. The more you fight the more exposure the fact gets that Jesus isn’t given prayer in the Bible nor did anything teach anything about it.

Don’t you think that since the Bible is our book for how to conduct ourselves with God that if Jesus were God that praying to him would be something they atleast mentioned or did one time? No one ever did it in Scripture. This should show you what they originally believed versus what you believe are not the same.

Give it up

We have you on record admitting Jesus is the one Lord

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Jesus Christ is the one lord so Lord here is Jesus

Acts 1:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

You stand refuted even while you attempt to frame your argument and denying the definition of the word prayer

refuted by your own confession though you change your argument to suit the need of the moment

BTW 1 Cor 8:6 also shows his pre-existence refuting another one of your denial

one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Again give it up. The fact you have to alter your views to suit the situation shows your views are error

 

[TomL]

There’s our proof that the Father is the one God. Case closed.

And that Christ is the one lord

Therefore any passage mentioning Lord with any further clarification is a reference to Jesus Christ

So Christ was prayed to contrary to your denials

and if you do not call on Christ for salvation you cannot be saved

Romans 10:9–13 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Are you ready to renounce your errors?

 

[civic]

Bald faced fabrication

1 Corinthians 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
2 Corinthians 12:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
Acts 7:59 (KJV 1900) — 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
1 John 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

*************************************************
Acts 1:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
********************************************

Revelation 5:8 (LEB) — 8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one of whom had a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

********************************************************

a typical bald denial of scripture as is often seen in your posts

Amen its rather obvious prayer and worship is given to Jesus in Scripture many times.

And we know it's forbidden for any Jew or angel to receive prayer or worship.

Christ is clearly called God and worshiped and prayed to as God by His disciples and followers. The angels in heaven also worship Him on the throne.

All the uni's have is word salad, word games to deny Christ of His glory, worship, honor, power, praise. Jesus said those who deny Him the Father will also deny.

 

[David Koberstein]

Give it up

We have you on record admitting Jesus is the one Lord

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Jesus Christ is the one lord so Lord here is Jesus

Acts 1:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

You stand refuted even while you attempt to frame your argument and denying the definition of the word prayer

refuted by your own confession though you change your argument to suit the need of the moment

BTW 1 Cor 8:6 also shows his pre-existence refuting another one of your denial

one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Again give it up. The fact you have to alter your views to suit the situation shows your views are error

Don't keep throwing your pearls before swine.
You did a great job explaining the biblical Truth.
Shabbat Shalom

 

[TomL]

Don't keep throwing your pearls before swine.
You did a great job explaining the biblical Truth.
Shabbat Shalom

It's not for his benefit as I know he is not open to truth.

 

[David Koberstein]

It's not for his benefit as I know he is not open to truth.

Unfortunately, some people are that way.
I try to convey the Truth and when it gets to a point when they are not open to it. I usually put them on ignore. I rather use my time on discussion with like minded people even though we have small differences, we can learn from each other's perspective.
Shabbat Shalom

 

[TomL]

Unfortunately, some people are that way.
I try to convey the Truth and when it gets to a point when they are not open to it. I usually put them on ignore. I rather use my time on discussion with like minded people even though we have small differences, we can learn from each other's perspective.
Shabbat Shalom

Well I consider those who might be swayed by an unaddressed falsehood.

 

[Runningman]

Give it up

We have you on record admitting Jesus is the one Lord

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Jesus Christ is the one lord so Lord here is Jesus

Acts 1:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

You stand refuted even while you attempt to frame your argument and denying the definition of the word prayer

refuted by your own confession though you change your argument to suit the need of the moment

BTW 1 Cor 8:6 also shows his pre-existence refuting another one of your denial

one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Again give it up. The fact you have to alter your views to suit the situation shows your views are error

Anytime they prayed to the Lord they were praying to the Father. Let's begin with the precedent in Scripture.

1. No one prayed to Jesus in the Old Testament.
2. No one taught anything about praying to Jesus in the New Testament
3. Jesus only ever prayed to the Father
4. Jesus taught the disciples to pray to the Father.

Therefore the Scriptural precedent is mine. You don't have any scriptural backing for you bald faced denials of Scripture.

When they prayed to the Lord in the Bible, then they prayed to the Father because the Father is Lord over Jesus. The Lord Most High is the Father (YHWH). That is a title Jesus is never called because it doesn't belong to him.

Jesus prayed to the Lord:

Matthew 11 (NIV)​

25At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.​

The disciples prayed to the Lord:

Acts 1 (NIV)​

24Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen​

I'm calling check mate on this forum and Trinitarianism. There are no verses about "Jesus" being "prayed" to in the Bible. This is irrefutable.