The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[Runningman]

If my siding with the Bible makes you not like me then so be it. I'm not here to flatter you on your Judaizing heresies. That would make me an accomplice to all your errors. I'll stick with the Bible which proves again and again that Jesus is our Lord and our God.

I don't like you because you've disrespected me and called me a lot of names. That doesn't mean I'll give up on you, I just don't respect you anymore. I think your witness is tarnished at this point. There is a reason why Jesus taught about loving your neighbor as you love yourself. When you love someone and treat them with dignity, even if they disagree with you, they will at least listen to you. Whatever your message is, I guarantee my eyes and ears have slammed shut to it at this point. My goal with you going forward is outreach and for you to convert to Christianity.

So why do you not believe the Father is the ONLY true God as Jesus said?

John 17 (KJV)​

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ​

If you don't believe the Father is the only true God, the one Jesus said sent him, you can't have eternal life, sir.

John 5 (KJV)​

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

 

[Runningman]

Um your flip flops and bald denials are not helping anyone.

Name one.

 

[Runningman]

That's why I put him on ignore.

@TomL here's what @David Koberstein messaged me after placing me on ignore.

Is this normal trinitarian behavior?

"I have chosen to ignore you and your blasphemous BS. I didn't really believe in evolution until I came met you.
It's peanut brain Gentile people like you that gives Christianity a black eye. Glad I'm Jewish Have another ham sandwich for the road and make sure to wear your pager!
Oh by the way, thank you for providing transportation for Yeshua's mother Mary. Everyone knows that Joseph walked and Mary rode an ***."

 

[David Koberstein]

If he was my only interest, I would also.

I just have to be a good stewardship of my time. Thank you (Toda Raba) for your insightful posts.
Shalom

 

[Runningman]

I just have to be a good stewardship of my time. Thank you (Toda Raba) for your insightful posts.
Shalom

You have a potty mouth and a nasty attitude.

@everyone here's what David sent me in a private message.

"I have chosen to ignore you and your blasphemous BS. I didn't really believe in evolution until I came met you.
It's peanut brain Gentile people like you that gives Christianity a black eye. Glad I'm Jewish Have another ham sandwich for the road and make sure to wear your pager!
Oh by the way, thank you for providing transportation for Yeshua's mother Mary. Everyone knows that Joseph walked and Mary rode an ***."

Screenshot for proof:

 

[Runningman]

How many Gentiles we have here?

For the record, looks like David hates us. That's your brother. He won't say it publicly, but he's racist. I provided the screen shot from a private message above.

 

[synergy]

How many Gentiles we have here?

For the record, looks like David hates us. That's your brother. He won't say it publicly, but he's racist. I provided the screen shot from a private message above.

The purpose of this Forum is not to sow discord amongst brothers and burn bridges.
Let the Moderators do their job. We will not be drawn into your attempt to sow discord amongst brothers. Draw back and reign in your nihilistic spirit.

 

[David Koberstein]

The purpose of this Forum is not to sow discord amongst brothers and burn bridges.
Let the Moderators do their job. We will not be drawn into your attempt to sow discord amongst brothers. Draw back and reign in your nihilistic spirit.

Amen. Thank you for expressing that opinion.
We don't need bomb throwers. As iron sharpens iron. Even though we have differences we need to sharpen each other through Adonai's Word.
Shalom Aleichem

 

[Runningman]

The purpose of this Forum is not to sow discord amongst brothers and burn bridges.
Let the Moderators do their job. We will not be drawn into your attempt to sow discord amongst brothers. Draw back and reign in your nihilistic spirit.

David's sowing it just fine. I am simply pointing it out. Maybe you should be rebuking the one sowing racism, not me.

 

[Runningman]

Amen. Thank you for expressing that opinion.
We don't need bomb throwers. As iron sharpens iron. Even though we have differences we need to sharpen each other through Adonai's Word.
Shalom Aleichem

A good place for you to begin would be with some humility and a public apology to all of the Gentiles on this forum and any of the visitors who may read it. That would be a good way to redeem the words from your hateful spirit with some dignity.

 

[Johann]

@TomL here's what @David Koberstein messaged me after placing me on ignore.

Is this normal trinitarian behavior?

"I have chosen to ignore you and your blasphemous BS. I didn't really believe in evolution until I came met you.
It's peanut brain Gentile people like you that gives Christianity a black eye. Glad I'm Jewish Have another ham sandwich for the road and make sure to wear your pager!
Oh by the way, thank you for providing transportation for Yeshua's mother Mary. Everyone knows that Joseph walked and Mary rode an ***."

He won't be here for long, this goes against the rules of this Forum. Character assassination. Attacking the person and not the post.

Sad to see this is still going on.

J.

 

[TomL]

I just have to be a good stewardship of my time. Thank you (Toda Raba) for your insightful posts.
Shalom

Shalom

 

[TomL]

@TomL here's what @David Koberstein messaged me after placing me on ignore.

Is this normal trinitarian behavior?

"I have chosen to ignore you and your blasphemous BS. I didn't really believe in evolution until I came met you.
It's peanut brain Gentile people like you that gives Christianity a black eye. Glad I'm Jewish Have another ham sandwich for the road and make sure to wear your pager!
Oh by the way, thank you for providing transportation for Yeshua's mother Mary. Everyone knows that Joseph walked and Mary rode an ***."

Why tell me? He wrote you in private,

 

[TomL]

Name one.

Your confession only Jesus is lord then denying it

But I will give you anotther

Arguing he is a god or godly and also impersonal

 

[TomL]

I don't like you because you've disrespected me and called me a lot of names. That doesn't mean I'll give up on you, I just don't respect you anymore. I think your witness is tarnished at this point. There is a reason why Jesus taught about loving your neighbor as you love yourself. When you love someone and treat them with dignity, even if they disagree with you, they will at least listen to you. Whatever your message is, I guarantee my eyes and ears have slammed shut to it at this point. My goal with you going forward is outreach and for you to convert to Christianity.

So why do you not believe the Father is the ONLY true God as Jesus said?

John 17 (KJV)​

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ​

If you don't believe the Father is the only true God, the one Jesus said sent him, you can't have eternal life, sir.

John 5 (KJV)​

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

Why don't you believe Jesus is the only Lord?

Jude 4 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Johann]

Why don't you believe Jesus is the only Lord?

Jude 4 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:4 "For certain persons have crept in unnoticed" False teachers often come from within the group (cf. 1 John 2:18-19). This refers to the false teachers who used cunning schemes (cf. Jude 1:8,10, 11-12,16,18-19) in order to manipulate the people of God. Other false teachers are mentioned in the NT in Matt. 7:15-23; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 2:4; Eph. 4:14; Col. 2:8-23; 2 Tim. 3:1ff and of course, 2 Peter 2. Beware!

There are so many interpretations of the Bible; so many claim to speak for God! How can one evaluate those who claim to speak from God? Here are some ways.

Deut. 13:1-5 (sign or wonder in name of another god)
Deut. 18:20-22 (accurately predicts the future in name of another god)
Matt. 7:15-23 (by their fruits you shall know them; life reveals orientation)
Matt. 24:24 (miracles are not automatically a sign of God)
1 John 4:1-3 (Christological, one nature —God and man)
2 Pet. 3:15-16 (they misinterpret revelation ‒ 3:2)
▣ "those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation" This is a PERFECT PASSIVE PARTICIPLE. A similar concept is found in 2 Pet. 2:3. This may be

an allusion to the non-canonical book of I Enoch (cf. Jude 1:14)
an example of Jude's following OT examples
False teachers have crept in unnoticed throughout history and the tragedy continues (cf. Eph. 4:14).

SPECIAL TOPIC: APOSTASY

▣ "ungodly persons" This is the term "godly" (eusebēs, cf. 2 Pet. 2:9 or eusebeia, cf. 2 Pet. 1:3,6,7; 3:11) with an ALPHA PRIVITIVE (asebēs, cf. 2 Pet. 2:5; 3:7; Jude 1:4,15 or asebeō, cf. 2 Pet. 2:6; Jude 1:15). This is a key term in Jude (used six times) and 2 Pet. 2. It is also a common designation of rebellion in I Enoch. These teachers are doctrinally false, which led to moral ungodliness. "By their fruit you shall know them" (cf. Matthew 7, 13).

NASB, NKJV, Peshitta  "turn"
NRSV, NJB, REB  "pervert"
TEV  "distort"
This term (metatithēmi), in this context, implies to change something (in the gospel) by substituting something else (here, from Greek philosophy). It denotes an intentional change or alteration.

Normally the word means to remove or to transfer (i.e., Heb. 7:12; 11:5).

SPECIAL TOPIC: GNOSTICISM

▣ "the grace of our God into licentiousness" Antinomians/Libertines use God's grace as a license for the flesh (cf. Rom. 6:1-23; 14:16; 1 Pet. 2:16; 2 Pet. 2:19), particularly sexual exploitation. See SPECIAL TOPIC: HUMAN SEXUALITY

The term "grace" can be understood in two ways.

First, as the character of God who loves and receives fallen mankind solely on the basis of His provisions and promises. It has been defined as the undeserved and unmerited love, acceptance, and forgiveness of God. Its synonym would be mercy.
Second, it may be another way of referring to the Christian faith, like "the faith once and for all given to the saints."
Whichever is true, these false teachers are exploiting the loving, forgiving character of God and His people for their own selfish purposes, which is the essence of sin—independence from God. These are wolves in sheep's clothing (cf. Matt. 7:15). The tragedy is that God's people often do not recognize them and even yield themselves to them.

SPECIAL TOPIC: THE FALL OF MANKIND

▣ "deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" This is the PRESENT MIDDLE (deponent) PARTICIPLE meaning "they continue to deny." Literally, it means "renounce," which may refer to renouncing Christ by their lifestyle (cf. 1 Tim. 5:8; 2 Tim. 3:5; Titus 1:16).

This separation of profession from lifestyle was characteristic of the first-century false teachers. Later Gnosticism (see Special Topic below) asserted that one is saved by secret knowledge of the angelic spheres (aeons) between a high holy god and physical creation. Salvation was an intellectual concern and did not affect one's lifestyle. Jude and James respond harshly to this disjunction between faith and life (following Jesus' teachings in Matthew 5-7).

There is a Greek manuscript variant in v. 4. The NKJV has "deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." The oldest and most reliable Greek texts (P72,78, א, A, B, and C) do not have "God." One ARTICLE seems to identify one person who is (1) master, (2) Lord, and (3) Jesus Christ. The UBS4 gives the shorter reading (NASB) an "A" rating (certain).

SPECIAL TOPIC: GNOSTICISM

SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRIST JESUS AS LORD

SPECIAL TOPIC: TEXTUAL CRITICISM

▣ "Master" Literally this is "despot." This term is also used of Jesus in 2 Pet. 2:1. If Jesus is master of our lives, therefore, we cannot be (cf. Luke 6:46)!

SPECIAL TOPIC: TEXTUAL CRITICISM

TEXTUAL CRITICISM — Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

J.

 

[TomL]

Jude 1:4 "For certain persons have crept in unnoticed" False teachers often come from within the group (cf. 1 John 2:18-19). This refers to the false teachers who used cunning schemes (cf. Jude 1:8,10, 11-12,16,18-19) in order to manipulate the people of God. Other false teachers are mentioned in the NT in Matt. 7:15-23; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 2:4; Eph. 4:14; Col. 2:8-23; 2 Tim. 3:1ff and of course, 2 Peter 2. Beware!

There are so many interpretations of the Bible; so many claim to speak for God! How can one evaluate those who claim to speak from God? Here are some ways.

Deut. 13:1-5 (sign or wonder in name of another god)
Deut. 18:20-22 (accurately predicts the future in name of another god)
Matt. 7:15-23 (by their fruits you shall know them; life reveals orientation)
Matt. 24:24 (miracles are not automatically a sign of God)
1 John 4:1-3 (Christological, one nature —God and man)
2 Pet. 3:15-16 (they misinterpret revelation ‒ 3:2)
▣ "those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation" This is a PERFECT PASSIVE PARTICIPLE. A similar concept is found in 2 Pet. 2:3. This may be

an allusion to the non-canonical book of I Enoch (cf. Jude 1:14)
an example of Jude's following OT examples
False teachers have crept in unnoticed throughout history and the tragedy continues (cf. Eph. 4:14).

SPECIAL TOPIC: APOSTASY

▣ "ungodly persons" This is the term "godly" (eusebēs, cf. 2 Pet. 2:9 or eusebeia, cf. 2 Pet. 1:3,6,7; 3:11) with an ALPHA PRIVITIVE (asebēs, cf. 2 Pet. 2:5; 3:7; Jude 1:4,15 or asebeō, cf. 2 Pet. 2:6; Jude 1:15). This is a key term in Jude (used six times) and 2 Pet. 2. It is also a common designation of rebellion in I Enoch. These teachers are doctrinally false, which led to moral ungodliness. "By their fruit you shall know them" (cf. Matthew 7, 13).

NASB, NKJV, Peshitta  "turn"
NRSV, NJB, REB  "pervert"
TEV  "distort"
This term (metatithēmi), in this context, implies to change something (in the gospel) by substituting something else (here, from Greek philosophy). It denotes an intentional change or alteration.

Normally the word means to remove or to transfer (i.e., Heb. 7:12; 11:5).

SPECIAL TOPIC: GNOSTICISM

▣ "the grace of our God into licentiousness" Antinomians/Libertines use God's grace as a license for the flesh (cf. Rom. 6:1-23; 14:16; 1 Pet. 2:16; 2 Pet. 2:19), particularly sexual exploitation. See SPECIAL TOPIC: HUMAN SEXUALITY

The term "grace" can be understood in two ways.

First, as the character of God who loves and receives fallen mankind solely on the basis of His provisions and promises. It has been defined as the undeserved and unmerited love, acceptance, and forgiveness of God. Its synonym would be mercy.
Second, it may be another way of referring to the Christian faith, like "the faith once and for all given to the saints."
Whichever is true, these false teachers are exploiting the loving, forgiving character of God and His people for their own selfish purposes, which is the essence of sin—independence from God. These are wolves in sheep's clothing (cf. Matt. 7:15). The tragedy is that God's people often do not recognize them and even yield themselves to them.

SPECIAL TOPIC: THE FALL OF MANKIND

▣ "deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" This is the PRESENT MIDDLE (deponent) PARTICIPLE meaning "they continue to deny." Literally, it means "renounce," which may refer to renouncing Christ by their lifestyle (cf. 1 Tim. 5:8; 2 Tim. 3:5; Titus 1:16).

This separation of profession from lifestyle was characteristic of the first-century false teachers. Later Gnosticism (see Special Topic below) asserted that one is saved by secret knowledge of the angelic spheres (aeons) between a high holy god and physical creation. Salvation was an intellectual concern and did not affect one's lifestyle. Jude and James respond harshly to this disjunction between faith and life (following Jesus' teachings in Matthew 5-7).

There is a Greek manuscript variant in v. 4. The NKJV has "deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." The oldest and most reliable Greek texts (P72,78, א, A, B, and C) do not have "God." One ARTICLE seems to identify one person who is (1) master, (2) Lord, and (3) Jesus Christ. The UBS4 gives the shorter reading (NASB) an "A" rating (certain).

SPECIAL TOPIC: GNOSTICISM

SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRIST JESUS AS LORD

SPECIAL TOPIC: TEXTUAL CRITICISM

▣ "Master" Literally this is "despot." This term is also used of Jesus in 2 Pet. 2:1. If Jesus is master of our lives, therefore, we cannot be (cf. Luke 6:46)!

SPECIAL TOPIC: TEXTUAL CRITICISM

TEXTUAL CRITICISM — Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

J.

Runningman believes

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

This eliminates Christ from being God. I then ask why do you not believe the verse eliminates God from being lord?

The verse however shows if either the word God or Lord appear without any other qualification then God refers to the father and Lord to Christ

As it does not deny God is also lord and Jesus is also God as shown by other scriptures

 

[Johann]

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

This eliminates Christ from being God. I then ask why do you not believe the verse eliminates God from being lord?

The verse however shows if either the word God or Lord appear without any other qualification then God refers to the father and Lord to Christ

As it does not deny God is also lord and Jesus is also God as shown by other scriptures

Failure on his part, not using the grammar and syntax.

Yet to us there is one God, the Father (all' hēmin heis theos ho patēr). B omits all' here, but the sense calls for it anyhow in this apodosis, a strong antithesis to the protasis (even if at least, kai eiper).

Of whom (ex hou). As the source (ex) of the universe (ta panta as in Rom_11:36; Col_1:16.) and also our goal is God (eis auton) as in Rom_11:36 where di' autou is added whereas here di' hou (through whom) and di' autou (through him) point to Jesus Christ as the intermediate agent in creation as in Col_1:15-20; Joh_1:3. Here Paul calls Jesus
Lord (Kurios) and not
God (theos), though he does apply that word to him in Rom_9:5; Tit_2:13; Col_2:9; Act_20:28.
Robertson

"one Lord, Jesus Christ" The title "Lord" reflects an OT translation of YHWH, which is the Hebrew verb "to be" (cf. Exo_3:14, see Special Topic at 1Co_2:8). The Jews were afraid to pronounce this holy name lest they take it in vain, therefore, they substituted the Hebrew term Adon or Lord.
Calling Jesus Lord (i.e., kurios is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Adon) is a way of affirming His deity and oneness with YHWH (cf. Php_2:11). The concept of oneness is also significant (cf. Eph_4:5; 1Ti_2:5).
Although Paul does not use Theos (i.e., God) for Jesus in this context, he does use it of Jesus in Act_20:28; Rom_9:5; and Tit_2:13 and Theotçtus in Col_2:9. There can be no doubt that in Paul's mind Jesus is divine.
Utley.

Notice how he pick and choose selective verses to steel man his case and bypass altogether clear scripture references re the Deity of Christ Jesus.

J.

 

[TomL]

Failure on his part, not using the grammar and syntax.

Yet to us there is one God, the Father (all' hēmin heis theos ho patēr). B omits all' here, but the sense calls for it anyhow in this apodosis, a strong antithesis to the protasis (even if at least, kai eiper).

Of whom (ex hou). As the source (ex) of the universe (ta panta as in Rom_11:36; Col_1:16.) and also our goal is God (eis auton) as in Rom_11:36 where di' autou is added whereas here di' hou (through whom) and di' autou (through him) point to Jesus Christ as the intermediate agent in creation as in Col_1:15-20; Joh_1:3. Here Paul calls Jesus
Lord (Kurios) and not
God (theos), though he does apply that word to him in Rom_9:5; Tit_2:13; Col_2:9; Act_20:28.
Robertson

"one Lord, Jesus Christ" The title "Lord" reflects an OT translation of YHWH, which is the Hebrew verb "to be" (cf. Exo_3:14, see Special Topic at 1Co_2:8). The Jews were afraid to pronounce this holy name lest they take it in vain, therefore, they substituted the Hebrew term Adon or Lord.
Calling Jesus Lord (i.e., kurios is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Adon) is a way of affirming His deity and oneness with YHWH (cf. Php_2:11). The concept of oneness is also significant (cf. Eph_4:5; 1Ti_2:5).
Although Paul does not use Theos (i.e., God) for Jesus in this context, he does use it of Jesus in Act_20:28; Rom_9:5; and Tit_2:13 and Theotçtus in Col_2:9. There can be no doubt that in Paul's mind Jesus is divine.
Utley.

Notice how he pick and choose selective verses to steel man his case and bypass altogether clear scripture references re the Deity of Christ Jesus.

J.

Yes I have noticed. He p;picks what he likes, ignores or baldly denies what he does not like

 

[Runningman]

Your confession only Jesus is lord then denying it

But I will give you anotther

Arguing he is a god or godly and also impersonal

Jesus is Lord. Well, that didn't work out for you.

Jesus is a god isn't he? There is John 1:1 where the Word is not The God. He said there are many gods, including himself. He is a god who is a son of THE GOD. Didn't the word of God come to Jesus? didn't you know none of Jesus' teachings are his own (John 7:16) and that he did not speak his own words (John 12:49) because that words from the Father are the words of eternal life (John 12:50) and it is the words of the Father that judge someone on the last day (John 12:48) and provided all of that, see why Jesus denied being God in Mark 10:18? He's a human. That's undeniable. He isn't an omniscient God, but rather a human who God spoke to.

John 10 (NIV)
34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’ ? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?