Refuting effectually caused faith

It's as plain as the noon day sun you are not able to address rebuttal and teach unbiblical doctrines

Afraid not

It's salvation which is not of oneself

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

verse 9 makes no sense if the demonstrative pronoun that refers to faith

Ephesians 2:9 — 9 Salvation is Not of works, lest any man should boast.

or

Ephesians 2:9 — 9 Faith is Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation makes sense and is consistent with scripture

Faith makes no sense here

faith is not the result of work are words never uttered in scripture
Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:
 
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Notice the Perfect Passive/Middle?


σεσῳσμένοι
Transliteration: sesōsmenoi
Morphology: V-RPM/P-NMP
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's no.: G4982 (ἐκσῴζω, σῴζω)
Meaning: To save, heal, preserve, rescue.

By grace have ye been saved (chariti este sesōsmenoi). Instrumental case of chariti and perfect passive periphrastic indicative of sōzō. Parenthetical clause interjected in the sentence. All of grace because we were dead.
RWP.


saved -- In this context, the Greek word used here, sōzō, refers to God delivering people from death and giving them life. - FSB

saved by Grace -- Out of God's grace (unmerited favor toward mankind) He has provided the Means (a Savior) and the Method (the plan = faith/trust that obeys) of our salvation.



1) "Even when we were dead in sins" (kai ontas hemas nekrous tois paraptomasin) "Even when we were dead (without spiritual life) in trespasses," or in a state of impositions upon God's love, mercy, and goodness. To be dead is used in the sense of “ barren,” “ empty," or “unfruitful," in holiness, truth, or right, destitute of spiritual life.

2) "Hath quickened us together with Christ" (sunexoopoiesen to christo) "Quickened or made us alive with Christ." From a state of spiritual death, the state of every responsible natural or unregenerate person, alienated from the life of God, the Ephesians had been quickened or made alive in and with Christ, Eph_2:1; Eph_4:18-19; Joh_6:63.

3) "(By grace are ye saved)" (chariti este sesosmenoi) "By grace ye are (having been) saved," a present state of being, originating from a once-for-all new birth experience, Eph_2:8-10; 2Co_5:17; Rom_11:16; Rom_4:4-5.


"made us alive together with Christ" This English phrase reflects one Greek word (suzōpoieō). This is the main VERB of the sentence (AORIST ACTIVE INDICATIVE) which begins in Eph. 2:1. This is the first of three compound AORIST VERBS with the Greek PREPOSITION, sun, which meant "joint participation with." Jesus was raised from the dead in Eph. 1:20 and believers have been quickened to spiritual life through Him (cf. Col. 2:13; 3:1). Believers are now truly alive with Christ. We have resurrection life now! Death, the last enemy, has been defeated (cf. 1 Corinthians 15).

2:5,8 "by grace you have been saved" This is a PERFECT PASSIVE PERIPHRASTIC PARTICIPLE, repeated in Eph. 2:8 for emphasis. This meant that believers have been saved in the past, by an outside agent, with abiding results; "they have been and continue to be saved by God."

******************************************************************************************************************************************


GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15; see SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRISTIAN GROWTH). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation (see SPECIAL TOPIC: SALVATION [NT])! Salvation is an initial response followed by a daily response throughout life (see SPECIAL TOPIC: COVENANT ). All of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe NT spiritual salvation.

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)

 ● Acts 15:11; 16:31

 ● Romans 8:24

 ● 2 Timothy 1:9

 ● Titus 3:5

 ● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)

 ● Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)

 ● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

 ● 2 Corinthians 2:15

 ● Philippians 2:12

 ● 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)

 ● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

 ● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

 ● Philippians 1:28

 ● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

 ● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

 ● 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as

initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)

For a good discussion of this threefold aspect of salvation, see Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, pp. 311-313.
Utley.


I assume you know what a Perfect is in Koine Greek? I would appreciate your feedback as I don't normally share this info.
 
View attachment 683

Notice the Perfect Passive/Middle?


σεσῳσμένοι
Transliteration: sesōsmenoi
Morphology: V-RPM/P-NMP
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's no.: G4982 (ἐκσῴζω, σῴζω)
Meaning: To save, heal, preserve, rescue.

By grace have ye been saved (chariti este sesōsmenoi). Instrumental case of chariti and perfect passive periphrastic indicative of sōzō. Parenthetical clause interjected in the sentence. All of grace because we were dead.
RWP.


saved -- In this context, the Greek word used here, sōzō, refers to God delivering people from death and giving them life. - FSB

saved by Grace -- Out of God's grace (unmerited favor toward mankind) He has provided the Means (a Savior) and the Method (the plan = faith/trust that obeys) of our salvation.



1) "Even when we were dead in sins" (kai ontas hemas nekrous tois paraptomasin) "Even when we were dead (without spiritual life) in trespasses," or in a state of impositions upon God's love, mercy, and goodness. To be dead is used in the sense of “ barren,” “ empty," or “unfruitful," in holiness, truth, or right, destitute of spiritual life.

2) "Hath quickened us together with Christ" (sunexoopoiesen to christo) "Quickened or made us alive with Christ." From a state of spiritual death, the state of every responsible natural or unregenerate person, alienated from the life of God, the Ephesians had been quickened or made alive in and with Christ, Eph_2:1; Eph_4:18-19; Joh_6:63.

3) "(By grace are ye saved)" (chariti este sesosmenoi) "By grace ye are (having been) saved," a present state of being, originating from a once-for-all new birth experience, Eph_2:8-10; 2Co_5:17; Rom_11:16; Rom_4:4-5.


"made us alive together with Christ" This English phrase reflects one Greek word (suzōpoieō). This is the main VERB of the sentence (AORIST ACTIVE INDICATIVE) which begins in Eph. 2:1. This is the first of three compound AORIST VERBS with the Greek PREPOSITION, sun, which meant "joint participation with." Jesus was raised from the dead in Eph. 1:20 and believers have been quickened to spiritual life through Him (cf. Col. 2:13; 3:1). Believers are now truly alive with Christ. We have resurrection life now! Death, the last enemy, has been defeated (cf. 1 Corinthians 15).

2:5,8 "by grace you have been saved" This is a PERFECT PASSIVE PERIPHRASTIC PARTICIPLE, repeated in Eph. 2:8 for emphasis. This meant that believers have been saved in the past, by an outside agent, with abiding results; "they have been and continue to be saved by God."

******************************************************************************************************************************************


GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15; see SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRISTIAN GROWTH). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation (see SPECIAL TOPIC: SALVATION [NT])! Salvation is an initial response followed by a daily response throughout life (see SPECIAL TOPIC: COVENANT ). All of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe NT spiritual salvation.

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)

 ● Acts 15:11; 16:31

 ● Romans 8:24

 ● 2 Timothy 1:9

 ● Titus 3:5

 ● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)

 ● Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)

 ● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

 ● 2 Corinthians 2:15

 ● Philippians 2:12

 ● 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)

 ● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

 ● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

 ● Philippians 1:28

 ● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

 ● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

 ● 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as

initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)

For a good discussion of this threefold aspect of salvation, see Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, pp. 311-313.
Utley.


I assume you know what a Perfect is in Koine Greek? I would appreciate your feedback as I don't normally share this info.

You have to include "are", which is in the Greek. So the best literal translation I can come up with is "are having been saved".

EDIT: Looks like you already included that.
 
You have to include "are", which is in the Greek. So the best literal translation I can come up with is "are having been saved".
And you dismiss all the other verbs and tenses?

Eph 2:5 even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together with the Christ, (by grace ye are having been saved,)
YLT
Ye-are
YE-ARE
G2075
G5748
vi Pres vxx 2 Pl
este
εστε

having-been-saved
ones-HAVING-been-SAVED
G4982
G5772
vp Perf Pas Nom Pl m
sesosmenoi
σεσωσμενοι
V-RPM/P-NMP
saved—

Ok brother-never mind.
God bless.
 
And you dismiss all the other verbs and tenses?

Eph 2:5 even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together with the Christ, (by grace ye are having been saved,)
YLT
Ye-are
YE-ARE
G2075
G5748
vi Pres vxx 2 Pl
este
εστε

having-been-saved
ones-HAVING-been-SAVED
G4982
G5772
vp Perf Pas Nom Pl m
sesosmenoi
σεσωσμενοι
V-RPM/P-NMP
saved—

Ok brother-never mind.
God bless.

I don't see what you're getting at. Anyway, I was pleased to see YLT had it the way I translated it, which makes me feel better about my translation.
 
Again, the definite article "it", being of neuter tense, applies to the entire phrase "for by grace you have been saved through faith".

In other words, "it" is the Grace of God by which you are saved through faith and that is the gift of God.
Now that's what I call some refuting.

Alive with Christ
…8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.…Ephesians 2:8–10

Not of works, lest any man should boast. Exegetical of the last clause, "Not of yourselves; certainly not of your works." The suppression of boasting was a purpose of God in his scheme of salvation; not the chief or final purpose, any more than the manifestation of his grace in coming ages...Biblehub.com
 
I don't see what you're getting at. Anyway, I was pleased to see YLT had it the way I translated it, which makes me feel better about my translation.
I was hoping to have an edifying discussion with you on what I have posted to you brother-@synergy certainly has it right.
Point is-you have not read what I posted.
All good.
 
Its as plain as the noon day sun that salvific Faith is not of oneself, Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the Gift of God, its of the operation of the Spirit effected/caused by pure grace,hence we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through[because of] grace:
It's as plain as the noon day sun you are not able to address rebuttal and teach unbiblical doctrines

It's salvation which is not of oneself

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

verse 9 makes no sense if the demonstrative pronoun that refers to faith

Ephesians 2:9 — 9 Salvation is Not of works, lest any man should boast.

or

Ephesians 2:9 — 9 Faith is Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation makes sense and is consistent with scripture

Faith makes no sense here

faith is not the result of work are words never uttered in scripture
 
Now that's what I call some refuting.

Alive with Christ
…8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.…Ephesians 2:8–10

Not of works, lest any man should boast. Exegetical of the last clause, "Not of yourselves; certainly not of your works." The suppression of boasting was a purpose of God in his scheme of salvation; not the chief or final purpose, any more than the manifestation of his grace in coming ages...Biblehub.com
Nobody here is advocating works of the Law. We kicked that habit 2K years ago. If your Parishioners are still doing works of the Law then you need to talk to them. As for us, our ancestors kicked that habit 2K years ago.
 
Nobody here is advocating works of the Law. We kicked that habit 2K years ago. If your Parishioners are still doing works of the Law then you need to talk to them. As for us, our ancestors kicked that habit 2K years ago.
LoL I'm agreeing with you And the scripture. I have no parishioners but if I did I'm sure they would understand grace.
 
It's either "faith" or both "salvation" and "faith". "This" is neuter, so you can't associate "this" with "saved" or "faith" by gender. But "this" always refers to a thing. The word "saved" is not a thing. The word "faith" is a thing. So the strongest argument is that "this" refers to "faith".
Nope gift is singular

and salvation is a thing

salvation is God's gift

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

and faith makes no sense because of the argument presented

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

verse 9 makes no sense if the demonstrative pronoun that refers to faith

Ephesians 2:9 — 9 Salvation is Not of works, lest any man should boast.

or

Ephesians 2:9 — 9 Faith is Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation makes sense and is consistent with scripture

Faith makes no sense here

faith is not the result of work are words never uttered in scripture

which you did not address
 
Wait, wasn't it you who said "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" actually means "This is the work required by God"?? If so, YOU said faith is a work.
Faith - a work as it is a thing you do, not faith accrues because of works
 
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Nope gift is singular

and salvation is a thing

salvation is God's gift

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

and faith makes no sense because of the argument presented



which you did not address

The word "salvation" does not even appear in the text. Unless you go back to Eph 1:13, where you see σωτηρίας which means salvation. If Eph 2:8 refers to salvation, why isn't the word σωτηρίας used instead of "are having been saved"?
 
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