Justification by Faith

[Complete]

What do you mean use the bible to prove my assertion, you dont believe human beings have faith ? The devils have faith James 2:19

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Most humans believe in God or a god, thats faith !

So do you believe in devils faith now ? Yet their believing has nothing to do with Justification by faith. You need to do more research, you seem to be unlearned

Hello @brightfame52,

I understand what you are saying. for we all exercise 'faith' every day of our lives: That is something common to all mankind. Simply reaching out and pressing a light switch is an act of faith, for in doing so you believe that you will have light.

Faith that results in justification, is believing what God has said concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and placing your trust in Him. You believe and trust that what God has said concerning Him He will surely do.

'For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto Him
for righteousness.'
(Rom. 4:3) (Gal. 3:6)

'And the scripture was fulfilled which saith,
Abraham believed God,
and it was imputed unto him for righteousness:
and he was called the Friend of God.'
'(Jas. 2:23)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joe]

What do you mean use the bible to prove my assertion, you dont believe human beings have faith ? The devils have faith James 2:19

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Most humans believe in God or a god, thats faith !

So do you believe in devils faith now ? Yet their believing has nothing to do with Justification by faith. You need to do more research, you seem to be unlearned

You haven’t learned yet. Faith is faith no matter who has it. It is what they have faith in that matters.

Yes, the demons believe in God and even tremble in fear. Do you call their belief demon faith? You classified man’s belief as human faith.

How many classifications of faith do you have?

Faith is faith. You cannot qualify it to fit your dogma. "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

Faith for salvation comes by hearing the message of Jesus Christ. This salvation does not apply to demons, and yet they certainly exhibit belief in God with trembling in fear. They know their demise, and yet man disbelieves in God without any trembling in fear. Who exhibits belief in God to punish them eternally? The demons belief in God that causes them to tremble in fear or the brazenly fearless unbelieving man?

Faith is faith. You need to stop qualifying it.

God Bless

 

[brightfame52]

Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard[spiritually] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

And this Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, so therefore, one must be already born of the Spirit, to have the Gospel of their Salvation revealed to them. The natural man doesn't have the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

@Complete

Faith that results in justification, is believing what God has said concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and placing your trust in Him. You believe and trust that what God has said concerning Him He will surely do.

Im sorry, but Faith that results in Justification before God is Christs Faith or Faithfulness, what you are saying makes for Justification before God based on your human faith, a work or action of yours friend.

 

[Doug Brents]

Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard[spiritually] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

And this Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, so therefore, one must be already born of the Spirit, to have the Gospel of their Salvation revealed to them. The natural man doesn't have the fruit of the Spirit.

You are adding "spiritually" to Eph 1:13, and ignoring the fact that it says that it says clearly that "after you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit". We exhibit faith after we hear, and receive the Holy Spirit after we have faith (believe (pistis = faith)).

It is our faith in the Gospel that brings about our salvation through the power of the Blood of Christ. The Gospel is just a good story if there is no Christ who lived, died, and rose again to give it power. In the same way, hearing the Gospel is just a nice thing to do if we do not believe and take action upon it (obey it in faith).

 

[Complete]

@Complete



Im sorry, but Faith that results in Justification before God is Christs Faith or Faithfulness, what you are saying makes for Justification before God based on your human faith, a work or action of yours friend.

'For if Abraham were justified by works,
he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not,
but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.'
(Rom 4:2-5)

Hello @brightfame52.

* I have to leave this with God's word.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brightfame52]

You are adding "spiritually" to Eph 1:13, and ignoring the fact that it says that it says clearly that "after you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit". We exhibit faith after we hear, and receive the Holy Spirit after we have faith (believe (pistis = faith)).

It is our faith in the Gospel that brings about our salvation through the power of the Blood of Christ. The Gospel is just a good story if there is no Christ who lived, died, and rose again to give it power. In the same way, hearing the Gospel is just a nice thing to do if we do not believe and take action upon it (obey it in faith).

One must be born of God to hear Gods wordsJn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So the one hearing in Eph 1:13 was of God

 

[brightfame52]

'For if Abraham were justified by works,
he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not,
but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.'
(Rom 4:2-5)

Hello @brightfame52.

* I have to leave this with God's word.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Again you base it on human faith, which is the flesh, your confidence is in the flesh, entirely different from Abraham.

 

[Complete]

Again you base it on human faith, which is the flesh, your confidence is in the flesh, entirely different from Abraham.

Hello @brightfame52,

I have merely quoted Scripture, so how can you make this judgment?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug Brents]

One must be born of God to hear Gods wordsJn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So the one hearing in Eph 1:13 was of God

I understand what you are getting at here, but it does not follow that the one who hears the Word is already saved. The Holy Spirit works in the unsaved to lead them to understand and obey, but that does not equate to force, coercion, or "irresistible grace". Man is still free to refuse to obey the pushing of the Holy Spirit. And it is in the obedience that man receives forgiveness and salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

Since Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, one must already have the Spirit in order for the Gospel to reveal to them their Salvation of Christ !

 

[brightfame52]

Hello @brightfame52,

I have merely quoted Scripture, so how can you make this judgment?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

See post 244

 

[Doug Brents]

Since Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, one must already have the Spirit in order for the Gospel to reveal to them their Salvation of Christ !

The gift of the Spirit in Gal 5:22 is not faith, but faithfulness.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

The Spirit helps us continue, to maintain, to endure, to remain in Christ, but He does not give us our initial saving faith. He does help us to accept the truth of the Gospel and come to that initial saving faith, but He does not force us to. If He were to force us into cooperation with Him, then He would not get loving followers. As C.S. Lewis puts it, "We might think that God wanted simply obedience to a set of rules: whereas He really wants people of a particular sort."

 

[brightfame52]

The gift of the Spirit in Gal 5:22 is not faith, but faithfulness.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

The Spirit helps us continue, to maintain, to endure, to remain in Christ, but He does not give us our initial saving faith. He does help us to accept the truth of the Gospel and come to that initial saving faith, but He does not force us to. If He were to force us into cooperation with Him, then He would not get loving followers. As C.S. Lewis puts it, "We might think that God wanted simply obedience to a set of rules: whereas He really wants people of a particular sort."

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit which you flat out deny Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[Doug Brents]

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit which you flat out deny Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

I do not deny Gal 5:22, but I do debate the translation of Scripture that you are using. Faith is not the fruit of the Spirit. It is only translated that way in 7 of the 30+ translations of the Bible (biblehub.com). The fruit of the Spirit is faithfulness. Faithfulness is the ability to continue on in obedience. But it is not the initial obedience that brings salvation. The initial obedience that brings salvation is our response to hearing the Word.

 

[brightfame52]

I do not deny Gal 5:22, but I do debate the translation of Scripture that you are using. Faith is not the fruit of the Spirit. It is only translated that way in 7 of the 30+ translations of the Bible (biblehub.com). The fruit of the Spirit is faithfulness. Faithfulness is the ability to continue on in obedience. But it is not the initial obedience that brings salvation. The initial obedience that brings salvation is our response to hearing the Word.

You do deny it, the translation is fine, the word means faith or faithfulness, either way its the fruit of the Spirit, just like Love is.

 

[Doug Brents]

You do deny it, the translation is fine, the word means faith or faithfulness, either way its the fruit of the Spirit, just like Love is.

Faith - complete trust or confidence in someone or something
Faithfulness - steadfast in affection or allegiance : loyal : firm in adherence to promises or in observance of duty

There is a huge difference between faith and faithfulness. You don't like that fact, because it does not fit your personal narrative, but it is what Scripture says, and I will trust Scripture over you.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith - complete trust or confidence in someone or something
Faithfulness - steadfast in affection or allegiance : loyal : firm in adherence to promises or in observance of duty

There is a huge difference between faith and faithfulness. You don't like that fact, because it does not fit your personal narrative, but it is what Scripture says, and I will trust Scripture over you.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 its given in the New Birth to believe the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

The word belief here is the same greek word in Gal 5:22 for Faith. Salvation Faith, Belief of the Truth is again the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 its given in the New Birth to believe the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

The word belief here is the same greek word in Gal 5:22 for Faith. Salvation Faith, Belief of the Truth is again the fruit of the Spirit.

Your read the right words, and come to the wrong conclusion.
We are given salvation THROUGH the sanctification of the Spirit, and THROUGH faith in the truth. We are not given faith because we received salvation. We are given salvation because we have faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Your read the right words, and come to the wrong conclusion.
We are given salvation THROUGH the sanctification of the Spirit, and THROUGH faith in the truth. We are not given faith because we received salvation. We are given salvation because we have faith.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22; 2 Thess 2:13