Justification by Faith

[Doug Brents]

No Salvation, No Faith !

You have that backwards. It is faith that comes first. It is our faith that is required to please God. It is our faith through which God sends us His salvation. It is through our faith that we become one with Christ (Col 2:12, Gal 3:2, 7, 14, 22, 24, & 26)

 

[Doug Brents]

Oh No, Salvation brings Faith with it, its the Gift of God, a Gift of Grace.

That is a popular misreading of Eph 2:8. Faith is not the gift, salvation is. And salvation is conducted to us through faith, as the passages cited in post 201 say also.

 

[brightfame52]

You have that backwards. It is faith that comes first. It is our faith that is required to please God. It is our faith through which God sends us His salvation. It is through our faith that we become one with Christ (Col 2:12, Gal 3:2, 7, 14, 22, 24, & 26)

Oh no, Faith in Salvation accompanies Salvation, its the Gift of Grace, not of ourselves.

 

[Doug Brents]

Oh no, Faith in Salvation accompanies Salvation, its the Gift of Grace, not of ourselves.

Wrong again. Read the passages of Scripture cited in post 201. They say clearly that faith precedes reception of grace (salvation). Faith does not come because of salvation. Salvation comes because of OUR faith.

 

[brightfame52]

That is a popular misreading of Eph 2:8. Faith is not the gift, salvation is. And salvation is conducted to us through faith, as the passages cited in post 201 say also.

Now human faith is before Salvation, now if you count on that faith, that's salvation by your works, by something you do or that is in you. In fact human natural faith is law keeping Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So be my guest, if you insist that your human faith is required for your salvation, you are under the law !

 

[brightfame52]

Wrong again. Read the passages of Scripture cited in post 201. They say clearly that faith precedes reception of grace (salvation). Faith does not come because of salvation. Salvation comes because of OUR faith.

Faith is by Grace friend Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

[Doug Brents]

Now human faith is before Salvation, now if you count on that faith, that's salvation by your works, by something you do or that is in you. In fact human natural faith is law keeping Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So be my guest, if you insist that your human faith is required for your salvation, you are under the law !

Not true. Notice that in the passage you cited, it is man's faith that man must practice. The passage you cite refutes your claim.

Faith is by Grace friend Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Yes, it is of faith so that it can be by grace: man's faith comes first. Again, the passage you cite refutes your claim.

 

[brightfame52]

Not true. Notice that in the passage you cited, it is man's faith that man must practice. The passage you cite refutes your claim.

Yes, it is of faith so that it can be by grace: man's faith comes first. Again, the passage you cite refutes your claim.

So if its your human faith, its your works, and not the faith by grace.

 

[Doug Brents]

So if its your human faith, its your works, and not the faith by grace.

Your humanistic calvinist doctrine is in the way of your understanding of Scripture. Faith without action is dead, and therefore not really faith at all. So your contention that any "works" necessary for salvation negate grace is a falsehood. Works of the Law negate grace, but works done in faith do not.

 

[brightfame52]

Your humanistic calvinist doctrine is in the way of your understanding of Scripture. Faith without action is dead, and therefore not really faith at all. So your contention that any "works" necessary for salvation negate grace is a falsehood. Works of the Law negate grace, but works done in faith do not.

Your faith is either by grace, which is the fruit of the Spirit or your faith is of yourself, a work or fruit of the flesh. If its of yourself, its work/law keeping salvation you trust in

 

[Joe]

I hope you see your inconsistency. You said NO

You asked,”So do you believe one Christ died for is Justified before God by His Blood prior to their belief in Jesus ?”

And I did indeed responded with a no for my answer.

You will not find it contextually anywhere in the Bible that man is justified prior to believing….And this is why my answer was, and is still no.

I have proven to you that one is justified by faith, and that we obtain access to this grace we now stand by faith.

No faith, no salvation. Faith, yes salvation.

Again, I ask you what do you do with Romans 5:1-2? You are obviously ignoring the clear text and not even responding to it. Why is that? I know why, because it exposes the error in thinking one is justified prior to believing.

The provision for atonement has been made. Man must respond with faith to receive; to obtain access into this grace of being justified by the death of our Lord.

God Bless

 

[brightfame52]

You asked,”So do you believe one Christ died for is Justified before God by His Blood prior to their belief in Jesus ?”

And I did indeed responded with a no for my answer.

You will not find it contextually anywhere in the Bible that man is justified prior to believing….And this is why my answer was, and is still no.

I have proven to you that one is justified by faith, and that we obtain access to this grace we now stand by faith.

No faith, no salvation. Faith, yes salvation.

Again, I ask you what do you do with Romans 5:1-2? You are obviously ignoring the clear text and not even responding to it. Why is that? I know why, because it exposes the error in thinking one is justified prior to believing.

The provision for atonement has been made. Man must respond with faith to receive; to obtain access into this grace of being justified by the death of our Lord.

God Bless

You are inconsistent, you dont believe Christs death alone Justified them He died for. Therefore you dont believe Christs death alone Justified anyone before God.

 

[Doug Brents]

Your faith is either by grace, which is the fruit of the Spirit or your faith is of yourself, a work or fruit of the flesh. If its of yourself, its work/law keeping salvation you trust in

Not so. Faith comes through hearing the Word of God. It is when we hear the Gospel preached and we come to accept that it is truth that we combine that intellectual assent with action of obedience (which is faith) and are saved.

If I lift a 1000 ton overhead door and invite you to enter, and you take the step that puts you over the threshold into the house, did you "earn" entry into the house? No, I opened the door for you. This is what God has done for us. He opened the door (He made a way through Christ's blood), but we must enter in. We must obey Him to receive His justification.

 

[civic]

Not so. Faith comes through hearing the Word of God. It is when we hear the Gospel preached and we come to accept that it is truth that we combine that intellectual assent with action of obedience (which is faith) and are saved.

If I lift a 1000 ton overhead door and invite you to enter, and you take the step that puts you over the threshold into the house, did you "earn" entry into the house? No, I opened the door for you. This is what God has done for us. He opened the door (He made a way through Christ's blood), but we must enter in. We must obey Him to receive His justification.

Amen as per Romans 10:9-17.

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”[g]

16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”[h] 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

 

[Joe]

You are inconsistent, you dont believe Christs death alone Justified them He died for. Therefore you dont believe Christs death alone Justified anyone before God.

No, I do not believe that the Lord’s death justifies anyone without faith. The biblical record proves that it takes faith from one’s self to receive the gift of salvation.

You know Romans 5:1-2 proves you wrong in your understanding.

The Lord’s Apostle stated, “we have been justified by faith”, and that we have also obtained access by faith into this grace we stand” But, you seem to be claiming we are not justified by faith….Is this accurate?

Do you agree with “we have been justified by faith”? And that we “obtained access by faith into this grace” of the Lords death justifying us with God?

And I ask you to please stop with the inconsistency replies. It doesn’t do anything positive to the discussion. It is your opinion that does not match the biblical record.

God Bless

 

[brightfame52]

Not so. Faith comes through hearing the Word of God. It is when we hear the Gospel preached and we come to accept that it is truth that we combine that intellectual assent with action of obedience (which is faith) and are saved.

If I lift a 1000 ton overhead door and invite you to enter, and you take the step that puts you over the threshold into the house, did you "earn" entry into the house? No, I opened the door for you. This is what God has done for us. He opened the door (He made a way through Christ's blood), but we must enter in. We must obey Him to receive His justification.

Yes so, your human faith is involved in your salvation which makes it by the flesh and works, or Faith that is by Grace, the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes so, your human faith is involved in your salvation which makes it by the flesh and works, or Faith that is by Grace, the fruit of the Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit comes from those who have been saved, for they are the result of the Spirit living within you. Saving faith must come before salvation is received, and thus is not a fruit of the Spirit. Increased faith and continued faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit for those who continue to walk in the Light (1 John 1:7-9). But you must have the Spirit living within you for you to exhibit the fruits of the Spirit: if you are not grafted into the true vine then you cannot produce true fruit.

 

[brightfame52]

The fruit of the Spirit comes from those who have been saved, for they are the result of the Spirit living within you. Saving faith must come before salvation is received, and thus is not a fruit of the Spirit. Increased faith and continued faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit for those who continue to walk in the Light (1 John 1:7-9). But you must have the Spirit living within you for you to exhibit the fruits of the Spirit: if you are not grafted into the true vine then you cannot produce true fruit.

You either have Faith which is of the Spirit and Grace or Faith that is of your flesh, your human faith, which puts you under the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[Doug Brents]

You either have Faith which is of the Spirit and Grace or Faith that is of your flesh, your human faith, which puts you under the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Again, you confuse your self with your false doctrine. We have been over this. Faith, being a "weightier matter of the Law" comes from us, just as do judgement and mercy, as the next phrase says, "these ought ye to have done". Who does the judgement, mercy, and faith? We do!

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you confuse your self with your false doctrine. We have been over this. Faith, being a "weightier matter of the Law" comes from us, just as do judgement and mercy, as the next phrase says, "these ought ye to have done". Who does the judgement, mercy, and faith? We do!

Your faith is either by Grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Or by the flesh and law keeping Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Cant mix law and Grace friend Gal 5:4

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.