John Piper: Born again through faith in the gospel

[synergy]

Doug, now you are resorting to trying to use a language you do not know and truly has no support you are so desperately grasping for. You will never instruct God's children seeking for truth, which children for the most part are not among the wise of this world where you are seeking to place yourselves among. You are not speaking in tongues, but are doing so in your writings, which is no different. Who are you trying to impress? God is not impress and neither are his sheep, they run from such voices as you are putting forth, and rightly so should they.

Your two quotes above absoultely makes no sense, if you used the same energy in seeking the truth, as you did in denying the truth, you just might find the truth. If you truly love the scriptures, then I pray God would be merciful to you and show you the error of your way, in all sincerity. RB

@TibiasDad's posts make perfect sense. You just inadvertently revealed the main reason why people like you fall into and wallow in the cesspool of heresies. They ridicule and sacrifice Language Grammar on the altar of their false presuppositions.

Generally speaking, our greatest unsung heroes are Language Teachers and all they get from heretics from you is ridicule.

 

[synergy]

By, through, never because of. Faith is the means. Your saved "by grace" through faith.

It's not by double cartwheels either. It's still "through ... belief in the truth". Belief is an undeniable prerequisite that you have no answer for, as usual.

 

[TibiasDad]

Doug, now you are resorting to trying to use a language you do not know and truly has no support you are so desperately grasping for. You will never instruct God's children seeking for truth, which children for the most part are not among the wise of this world where you are seeking to place yourselves among. You are not speaking in tongues, but are doing so in your writings, which is no different. Who are you trying to impress? God is not impress and neither are his sheep, they run from such voices as you are putting forth, and rightly so should they.

Your two quotes above absoultely makes no sense, if you used the same energy in seeking the truth, as you did in denying the truth, you just might find the truth. If you truly love the scriptures, then I pray God would be merciful to you and show you the error of your way, in all sincerity. RB

They make perfect sense and if you had any training in Koine Greek you would understand it. I am no “expert” in Greek, but I have had formal training and got above average grades, and these things are first-year Greek issues which are the very basic foundations of the language.

The only way to know if the English translation is correct is to understand the original language from which the translation is made.

By the way, as an FYI, in two and a half weeks I will be retiring from 42 years of being a pastor, the last 18 of which I have been at the same church.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

By, through, never because of. Faith is the means. Your saved "by grace" through faith.

We have been saved because of God’s grace and because we have believed in God’s graciousness toward us. The only way to experience God’s grace is through faith. Abraham was counted as righteous because he believed!

Doug

 

[Red Baker]

@TibiasDad

The only way to know if the English translation is correct is to understand the original language from which the translation is made.

Good morning Doug.

You sir, are speaking to the wrong person, and there are a few just like me that would stand and say, that is a false statement, and should never be spoken by a child of God, never. With that statement, you have just removed the power to understand from God's little flock who for the most part are the nobodies of this world as far as mental abilities ~ for the scriptures clearly tell us that God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are. Doug, not many wise are called; not many noble are called; But God has chosen the foolish, the unwise, those that are nought to confound those who think they are wise, etc. He has called fishermen, carpenters, tentmakers, plain old servants, blue collars workers, farmers, etc. These folks never could have ever mastered their own language much less another!

Doug, yet you think... "only way to know if the English translation is correct is to understand the original language"...Well, I got news for you, they have been long gone, even though they were put together as the word of God during the days of the apostles.

2ne Peter 3:16​

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”

We believe that the word of God is inspire of God, but, wait, it is much more than that, it is ALSO PERSERVED by God until this very day for his children according to Psalm 12!

Psalms 12:6​

“The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”

A plowboy with no education can know that his bible are indeed the very words of God spoken just as they were spoken when first given! For the English speaking people of this world, it is the KJV, every nation has it in their own tongue.

I have read a lot from men since Augustine, and when they quote scriptures, you would think they were using the KJV because they quoted it just as WE HAVE IT IN OUR TONGUE!

I am no “expert” in Greek, but I have had formal training and got above average grades, and these things are first-year Greek issues which are the very basic foundations of the language.

Brother, you time would have been better spent in Arabia with God as Paul did!

 

[Presby02]

We have been saved because of God’s grace and because we have believed in God’s graciousness toward us. The only way to experience God’s grace is through faith. Abraham was counted as righteous because he believed!

Doug

It's all grace. The gift of faith is grace. Through faith, not because of faith.

Belief is granted or given by God.

 

[Presby02]

It's not by double cartwheels either. It's still "through ... belief in the truth". Belief is an undeniable prerequisite that you have no answer for, as usual.

Through, not because of.

Belief is granted by God.

 

[Red Baker]

@Presby02

It's all grace. The gift of faith is grace. Through faith, not because of faith.

Ephesians 2:8​

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”

In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.

When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.

I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago. The faith of Ephesians 2:8 is Christ faith! Context is KING! It will drive the true biblically interpretation for us.

 

[TibiasDad]

It's all grace.

Correct

The gift of faith is grace.

It is gracious that God accepts my trust/faith, because he didn’t have to.

Through faith, not because of faith.

The terms are interchangeable and convey the same meaning. Faith is the means through which we access God’s grace, and because we believe God must keep his promise to give us new birth and eternal life to vindicate his character.

Belief is granted or given by God.

God created us with the ability and right to place our trust in whatever we desire. In that sense alone is belief granted. Again, grace means that the point of critical importance is not that we can believe, but that God accepts that belief as a sufficient response to his gracious offer of salvation.

God cannot be obligated to give us anything simply because we do something; that’s why salvation by works is impossible. But God obligated himself by extending his promise to act if we believe.

Doug

 

[Red Baker]

@TibiasDad

It is gracious that God accepts my trust/faith, because he didn’t have to.

Doug, you may be very sincere, that I would never question, but, as a older saint, and have heard just about every conceivable argument in favor of one's position, but your words above has a very odorous smell to it, not to mention biblical ignorance, and truly no pun intended, but this should concern you.

Doug, no man has any deeds in his flesh, that would move God to be gracious unto him, for there is no good thing in our flesh by nature, not one.

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

The will that is then present in Paul was the new man, yet even with this new man, SIN IS STILL PRESENT in each and every child of God, that keeps him from doing the will of God perfectly even in his most holy acts of worship, thinking, etc. To think otherwise is to not know just how wicked you are by nature, which you and others still do not grasp this truth, and until you do, your will continuedly reject the truth of the gospel, even though you very well may be born of the Spirit, yet are not submitting yourself unto the righteousness of Jesus Christ as it is truly revealed in the scriptures. You are others fall under these scriptures:

Romans 10:1-4​

“Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (that's practically speaking~RB) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, (which the lost do not have-RB) but not according to knowledge. (I have met many such people, and you just happen to be one more added to that list~RB) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Paul was not praying to add to the number of the elect, but for the elect that did had a true fear and zeal of God, he was desiring that they would be saved from their ignorance only, and submit themselves to the truth as we desire for many of God's children who have been dupes by false prophets into believing that they have a part in their salvation from sin and condemnation, which they DO NOT, but do have a part and an obligation in their practical salvation from error and ignorance by submitting to the truth.

 

[Presby02]

Correct

It is gracious that God accepts my trust/faith, because he didn’t have to.


The terms are interchangeable and convey the same meaning. Faith is the means through which we access God’s grace, and because we believe God must keep his promise to give us new birth and eternal life to vindicate his character.


God created us with the ability and right to place our trust in whatever we desire. In that sense alone is belief granted. Again, grace means that the point of critical importance is not that we can believe, but that God accepts that belief as a sufficient response to his gracious offer of salvation.

God cannot be obligated to give us anything simply because we do something; that’s why salvation by works is impossible. But God obligated himself by extending his promise to act if we believe.

Doug

It's your faith once it is gifted to you.

Right, it's through faith and not because of faith.

Belief is also granted by God. It is God who opens the heart. It is God who causes your obedience.

 

[TibiasDad]

Doug, no man has any deeds in his flesh, that would move God to be gracious unto him, for there is no good thing in our flesh by nature, not one.

And where have I ever denied that; in fact that is precisely my point! That is why works cannot save us.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

It's your faith once it is gifted to you.

Trust is trust! You trust your parents when you are young; you trust a teacher to help when you don’t understand. You trust your spouse when you get married.

It is built into our DNA to be in relationship with others and to trust them. In this sense, God gives us the capacity to believe in /trust those outside of ourselves. The issue is not can we believe/trust, exercise faith, but rather in whom/what do we place our trust/faith/belief!

Right, it's through faith and not because of faith.

Are we saved without faith? Is faith required to be demonstrated in order for God to act? (Is this not God’s directive?)

Then because we go to God by faith, we are graciously saved by God.

Belief is also granted by God.

Already addressed above…

It is God who opens the heart.

Certainly. That is the Holy Spirit’s job; to reprove the world of sin and help us to understand

It is God who causes your obedience.

God commands obedience. God capacitates our ability to obey. God doesn’t cause me to obey necessarily. The old adage applies here: God can lead the horse to water, but he doesn’t make him drink!

Doug

 

[Presby02]

Trust is trust! You trust your parents when you are young; you trust a teacher to help when you don’t understand. You trust your spouse when you get married.

It is built into our DNA to be in relationship with others and to trust them. In this sense, God gives us the capacity to believe in /trust those outside of ourselves. The issue is not can we believe/trust, exercise faith, but rather in whom/what do we place our trust/faith/belief!


Are we saved without faith? Is faith required to be demonstrated in order for God to act? (Is this not God’s directive?)

Then because we go to God by faith, we are graciously saved by God.


Already addressed above…


Certainly. That is the Holy Spirit’s job; to reprove the world of sin and help us to understand


God commands obedience. God capacitates our ability to obey. God doesn’t cause me to obey necessarily. The old adage applies here: God can lead the horse to water, but he doesn’t make him drink!

Doug

Who said you were saved without faith? Hence, it is gifted to you. Part of the process.

Ezekiel 36 is quite specific. We are given a new heart whereby God causes our obedience.

 

[synergy]

Who said you were saved without faith? Hence, it is gifted to you. Part of the process.

Ezekiel 36 is quite specific. We are given a new heart whereby God causes our obedience.

Ez 36 (new heart prophecy) is a prophecy for those people. Prophecies might happen in the past in Calvinism (your new heart before obedience idea) but in Christianity a new heart always happens after obedience (repentance and faith).

Look up the term prophecy and its definition and get back to us. Ok?

 

[Presby02]

Ez 36 (new heart prophecy) is a prophecy for those people. Prophecies might happen in the past in Calvinism (your new heart before obedience idea) but in Christianity a new heart always happens after obedience (repentance and faith).

Look up the term prophecies and its definition and get back to us. Ok?

For what people? LOL None the less, who is it who causes their obedience in the text?

 

[synergy]

For what people? LOL None the less, who is it who causes their obedience in the text?

You're still holding on to the Calvinist ideas that prophecies spoken are referring to acts in the past? That's the only way a new heart prophecy can precede obedience.

Look up the term prophecies and its definition and get back to us. Ok?

 

[Complete]

Faith is the instrumental cause by which we are born again

'So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.'
(Rom 10:17)

Hello @TomL,

It is hearing the the word of God that gives birth to faith. That is the instrumental cause.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

Born Again Through the Word of God

We have devoted three messages to this text. It is so important. But this time our question is different: What does the reality of the new birth imply for our witness to unbelievers? Here’s a very quick overview of what we have seen. If you want to see all the arguments for these conclusions, you’ll have to go back and look at those old messages.

Verse 22: “Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart.” The purification of your soul in verse 22 is what happens in the new birth. The obedience to the truth refers to faith in the gospel. The truth is the gospel of Christ, and obedience to the gospel is faith in Christ. For a sincere love of the brothers is the outcome and fruit of the new birth. Therefore, Peter says: Now that this has happened to you, “Love one another earnestly from a pure heart.” In other words, since you are born again through faith in the gospel with a view to a transformed life of love, now live it out. Love each other.

Then in verse 23 he uses the very language of new birth: “Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God.” This is probably the most important verse in the Bible concerning the relationship between the new birth and your role in how it comes about in other people. The key statement is: You have been born again … through the living and abiding word of God.”

You Are God’s Midwife for the New Birth of Others

April 6, 2008

1 Peter 1:22–2:3


John Piper, Sermons from John Piper (2000–2014) (Minneapolis, MN: Desiring God, 2014).

 

[Presby02]

You're still holding on to the Calvinist ideas that prophecies spoken are referring to acts in the past? That's the only way a new heart prophecy can precede obedience.

Look up the term prophecies and its definition and get back to us. Ok?

Never said such a thing although you do live under the New Covenant correct? Of which the text refers.