James' Teaching On Justification: Before Men Or Before God?

Titus

Titus

Active Member
Many that deny that works are necessary for justification claim that James 2:24 speaks only of appearing righteous before people, not before God.

James 2:24 states that a person is justified. Not seen as justified, not shown as justified but justified.
Paul uses the same Greek word for justified in Romans 5:1 that James uses inJames 2:24.

Also there is no mention of men or human observers in the verse.
The subject of chapter 2 is what makes a person righteous not how they appear to others.

James is teaching on salvation not appearance.
James 2:14,
- what does it profit my brethren if someone says he has faith but does not have works can faith alone save him

James is discussing what kind of faith saves not what works justifies before men.

James 2:24, Romans 5:1
- you see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone

Paul uses the same Greek word.
Romans 5:1,
- therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Paul and James harmonize perfectly.
Justified by faith.
Justified by works.

Once you learn what true Biblical saving faith is. You no longer struggle with reconciling James teaching with Pauls.

John joins them together perfectly.
John 3:36,
- he who believes in the Son has eternal life but he who does not  obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him

Romans 5:1 justified by faith
James 2:24 justified by works.

Faith without works is dead. Justified by faith that is not dead but living, working out of love.

James teaches works are faith acting in obedience. This faith justifies.
Likewise Paul teaches faith that justifies works through love.
Galatians 5:6,
- for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision not uncircumcision means anything but faith working through love

Ephesians 2:8-9 salvation by grace through faith.
Hebrews 5:8-9 eternal life by obedience to Jesus.

- for by grace you have been saved through faith....
- Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all that obey Him

That's enough to know that the faith that saves is the faith that obeys.
James and Paul both teach the same obedient faith that Justifies before God.
Both reject faith alone apart from obedient works.

James 2:24,
- you see that a man is justified by works(obedience) and not by faith alone(belief that does not work obedience)
 
Titus said:
Many that deny that works are necessary for justification claim that James 2:24 speaks only of appearing righteous before people, not before God.

James 2:24 states that a person is justified. Not seen as justified, not shown as justified but justified.
Paul uses the same Greek word for justified in Romans 5:1 that James uses inJames 2:24.

Also there is no mention of men or human observers in the verse.
The subject of chapter 2 is what makes a person righteous not how they appear to others.

James is teaching on salvation not appearance.
James 2:14,
- what does it profit my brethren if someone says he has faith but does not have works can faith alone save him

James is discussing what kind of faith saves not what works justifies before men.

James 2:24, Romans 5:1
- you see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone

Paul uses the same Greek word.
Romans 5:1,
- therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Paul and James harmonize perfectly.
Justified by faith.
Justified by works.

Once you learn what true Biblical saving faith is. You no longer struggle with reconciling James teaching with Pauls.

John joins them together perfectly.
John 3:36,
- he who believes in the Son has eternal life but he who does not  obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him

Romans 5:1 justified by faith
James 2:24 justified by works.

Faith without works is dead. Justified by faith that is not dead but living, working out of love.

James teaches works are faith acting in obedience. This faith justifies.
Likewise Paul teaches faith that justifies works through love.
Galatians 5:6,
- for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision not uncircumcision means anything but faith working through love

Ephesians 2:8-9 salvation by grace through faith.
Hebrews 5:8-9 eternal life by obedience to Jesus.

- for by grace you have been saved through faith....
- Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all that obey Him

That's enough to know that the faith that saves is the faith that obeys.
James and Paul both teach the same obedient faith that Justifies before God.
Both reject faith alone apart from obedient works.

James 2:24,
- you see that a man is justified by works(obedience) and not by faith alone(belief that does not work obedience)
Click to expand...

@Dizerner

1. So what happens when you sin before man? Do you lose your justification?
2. Do you actually ask men to forgive you?
3. If you do ask men to forgive you, do you always ask them to forgive you?
4. If not, then are you lost for not obeying this "requirement" for justification?

There are many many issues with this Arminian position.

I've never meet a Arminian that actually lived by their own requirements. I'd like to meet one. I'll take your word for it if you have the actual "guts" to claim you always live by your own requirements.

Titus said:
That's enough to know that the faith that saves is the faith that obeys.
James and Paul both teach the same obedient faith that Justifies before God.
Both reject faith alone apart from obedient works.

James 2:24,
- you see that a man is justified by works(obedience) and not by faith alone(belief that does not work obedience)
Click to expand...

Obey who? You have supposed "believers" being required to obey men. That never works. Never.

Not all men agree. In fact, most of them disagree.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Here you have Peter (who denied Jesus) claiming he didn't need to obey man. Peter didn't lose his faith. His faith survived the trial of his faith.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
 
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praise_yeshua said:
I'm certain it isn't biblical at all.

Repentance is granted. God only grants repentance and no.... I'm not talking about what Calvinists teach.

However, you can't get past the very real fact that only God grants repentance. Not you. Not anyone else. Only God.
Click to expand...
I don't have any problem with God granting repentance. That's Biblical.
 
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.

Greek word for justified "dikaioo" Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous,  such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Strongs's #1344: dikaioo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

You see that a man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works and not by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone "barren of works." (James 2:14)

*Fits the context.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.

Greek word for justified "dikaioo" Strongs #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

*Fits the context.

*This is how we rightly divide the word of truth. *Hermeneutics.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Man is saved by grace, through faith FIRST then created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works.(Ephesians 2:8-10) We must not put the cart before the horse.
 
Works just mean actions in the original, aside from a few other definitions like miracles, but in this context.

We have to act to be saved. We do not passively sit around and one day God shoots us with grace like a bullet to the head.

So we need to separate out the idea of different kinds of works and not lump them all into the same thing.

Works of Law and works of merit is what Paul means by works, but he does not mean "any action whatsoever without distinction."
 
mailmandan said:
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works
Click to expand...
Then faith is not genuine unless it has works.
Belief without works is not genuine faith.
Salvation by a faith without obedient works is salvation by with a faith that does not work.
James refers to faith with no works as dead, imperfect.

The opposite of genuine:
counterfeit
Fake
Insincere
Phony
Pretend

Paul and James both teach faith that justifies works. The source of the action/work is love for God,
Galatians 5:6,
- for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision profits anything but faith working through love

Faith that does not work has no love.
Faith alone salvation is belief in Christ but the action of obedience in doing Jesus' gospel is love.
Therefore faith that produces love for Jesus obeys Jesus by working His new testament commandments in His gospel.

Faith alone salvation is a loveless gospel.
1Corinthians 16:22,
- if anyone does not love the Lord he is to be accursed

Jesus teaches true faith acts by obeying Jesus/God.
These works of love are the evidence of true faith in Christ.

1John 2:3-5,
- now by this we know that we know Jesus if we keep His commandments
- he who says I know Him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him
- But whoever keeps His word truly the love of God is perfected in him, by this we know that we know Him

John 14:21,
- he who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me...

No works, no commandment keeping in faith alone salvation, no obedience.
Therefore faith alone salvation is a loveless gospel.

Christ commands us to love,
Matthew 22:37-38,
- thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind,
this is the first and great commandment
Love is a good work.
John 13:34,
- a new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another as I have loved you

This love is the motivation for obedience. Our obedience is our good works.
1John 5:3,
- for this is the love of God that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous

The faith alone advocates teach man does nothing to be saved.
Then love is also omitted from their plan of salvation as we do the work of love.
God does not do the loving for us. Just as God does not do the believing for us. He already loved us when we were without love,
Romans 6:23, 5:6-8
- for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord
- but God commendeth His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us

Paul taught saving faith loves God and this love motivates one to obedience.
Jesus Himself saves those who love Him. Jesus ties faith and love together.

Luke 7:47-48;50
- wherefore I say unto thee her sins which are many are forgiven for she loved much but to whom little is forgiven the same loveth little
- and Jesus said unto her, thy sins are forgiven
- and said unto the women, thy faith saved thee go in peace

Jesus ties faith that saves with faith that loves Him.
This aligns with what Paul taught about faith, Galatians 5:6,
- faith working through love

Faith that loves Christ is faith that saves.
And that love is shown in obedient works, devotion.

Exactly why James teaches faith void, empty of works is dead.
The only faith that justifies is a faith that obeys Jesus' commandments by working through love.
This is Biblical saving faith that justifies.

James 2:24,
- ye see then how that by works(obedience motivated by love for Jesus) a man is justified
- and NOT by faith only(faith void of obedient works)

Paul and James agree.
Faith that saves is faith that obeys, i.e. works love.
Romans 16:25-26,
- Now in Him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began
- but now is made manifest and by the scriptures of the prophets according to the commandments of the everlasting God made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
 
Titus said:
Then faith is not genuine unless it has works.
Belief without works is not genuine faith.
Salvation by a faith without obedient works is salvation by with a faith that does not work.
James refers to faith with no works as dead, imperfect.

The opposite of genuine:
counterfeit
Fake
Insincere
Phony
Pretend

Paul and James both teach faith that justifies works. The source of the action/work is love for God,
Galatians 5:6,
- for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision profits anything but faith working through love

Faith that does not work has no love.
Faith alone salvation is belief in Christ but the action of obedience in doing Jesus' gospel is love.
Therefore faith that produces love for Jesus obeys Jesus by working His new testament commandments in His gospel.

Faith alone salvation is a loveless gospel.
1Corinthians 16:22,
- if anyone does not love the Lord he is to be accursed

Jesus teaches true faith acts by obeying Jesus/God.
These works of love are the evidence of true faith in Christ.

1John 2:3-5,
- now by this we know that we know Jesus if we keep His commandments
- he who says I know Him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him
- But whoever keeps His word truly the love of God is perfected in him, by this we know that we know Him

John 14:21,
- he who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me...

No works, no commandment keeping in faith alone salvation, no obedience.
Therefore faith alone salvation is a loveless gospel.

Christ commands us to love,
Matthew 22:37-38,
- thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind,
this is the first and great commandment
Love is a good work.
John 13:34,
- a new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another as I have loved you

This love is the motivation for obedience. Our obedience is our good works.
1John 5:3,
- for this is the love of God that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous

The faith alone advocates teach man does nothing to be saved.
Then love is also omitted from their plan of salvation as we do the work of love.
God does not do the loving for us. Just as God does not do the believing for us. He already loved us when we were without love,
Romans 6:23, 5:6-8
- for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord
- but God commendeth His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us

Paul taught saving faith loves God and this love motivates one to obedience.
Jesus Himself saves those who love Him. Jesus ties faith and love together.

Luke 7:47-48;50
- wherefore I say unto thee her sins which are many are forgiven for she loved much but to whom little is forgiven the same loveth little
- and Jesus said unto her, thy sins are forgiven
- and said unto the women, thy faith saved thee go in peace

Jesus ties faith that saves with faith that loves Him.
This aligns with what Paul taught about faith, Galatians 5:6,
- faith working through love

Faith that loves Christ is faith that saves.
And that love is shown in obedient works, devotion.

Exactly why James teaches faith void, empty of works is dead.
The only faith that justifies is a faith that obeys Jesus' commandments by working through love.
This is Biblical saving faith that justifies.

James 2:24,
- ye see then how that by works(obedience motivated by love for Jesus) a man is justified
- and NOT by faith only(faith void of obedient works)

Paul and James agree.
Faith that saves is faith that obeys, i.e. works love.
Romans 16:25-26,
- Now in Him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began
- but now is made manifest and by the scriptures of the prophets according to the commandments of the everlasting God made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
Click to expand...
I posted this elsewhere this morning.


Paul in Romans says.....

Romans 3:20

because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Even the "works" master James suggests in The Book of James which emphasizes that genuine faith is demonstrated through good works, suggesting that faith without works is dead. However, it does not strictly advocate for the works of the law in the same way as traditional Jewish law, but rather focuses on ethical living and caring for others as expressions of faith.

One would naturally say then it is Faith Works that we must do.

Of course over time there has been much debate on whether James should even be included in the Canon of the bible.

There are many interesting debates if you care to search this subject.

Now... Paul goes on to say later on in Romans....11:6 which speaks of saving grace.

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8 NLT God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

And best understood by the Amplified Bible... For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

Certainly Paul has made it clear that works of any kind have no place in God saving us.

This does not mean that one should leave a starving man to starve. It just means it is not needed for where you want to spend your eternity.
 
FreeInChrist said:
Paul in Romans says.....

Romans 3:20

because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Click to expand...
Paul is teaching the works of the law of Moses in the book of Romans. No one can be saved by working the law of Moses, Galatians 5:1-6.

James is teaching the works in the new testament law of Christ, His new testament commandments, Hebrews 5:8-9 ; 2Thessalonians 1:8,
- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Romans: works of the old law of Moses. Cannot justify.
James: works of the gospel of Christ, new law, do Justify.

James 2:24,
Ye see then how that by works(new testament gospel of Jesus)
A man is justified and not by faith only

Romans 4:2,
- for if Abraham were justified by works(law of Moses) he hath whereof to boast...

Also different kinds of works being discussed.

Paul in Romans 4 is teaching on merit based works that can never save. They are not even taught in any of Gods covenants.
James' works are works of faith.
Faith put in action by obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ, new law of liberty that frees all from sin.

Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ
Romans 8:2,
- for the law(Jesus' new testament law) of the Spirit in Christ Jesus hath made me Free
- from the law(old law of Moses) of sin and death
 
The answer is justified before God not men.

Not only is seeking to be justified by men condemned in both OT and NT, the passage in James is directly related to obtaining the crown of life, using all the same legal salvation language Paul uses and always making God the main referent.

There is literal zero wiggle room for the antinomians to find a loophole with justification before men.
 
FreeInChrist said:
Paul in Romans says.....

Romans 3:20

because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Even the "works" master James suggests in The Book of James which emphasizes that genuine faith is demonstrated through good works, suggesting that faith without works is dead. However, it does not strictly advocate for the works of the law in the same way as traditional Jewish law, but rather focuses on ethical living and caring for others as expressions of faith.

One would naturally say then it is Faith Works that we must do.

Of course over time there has been much debate on whether James should even be included in the Canon of the bible.

There are many interesting debates if you care to search this subject.

Now... Paul goes on to say later on in Romans....11:6 which speaks of saving grace.

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8 NLT God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

And best understood by the Amplified Bible... For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

Certainly Paul has made it clear that works of any kind have no place in God saving us.

This does not mean that one should leave a starving man to starve. It just means it is not needed for where you want to spend your eternity.
Click to expand...
Understanding the difference between grace and works is necessary in order to fully understand Romans 11:6. Also, we need to keep in mind that the first six verses outline God's plan for the remnant, which is to bring the truth of His Word to pass. Over the years, this remnant has persisted from generation to generation, receiving and passing on the teachings recorded by the prophets. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, we are able to see how God fulfilled His Word via specific individuals, bringing all predictions to pass precisely as they were written. The fulfillment of such prophesies is not an accident.

…but the most crucial thing we need to understand is this: God is always fair.

Romans 11:5-8 (NKJV) 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then [it is] no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if [it is] of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

s e l a h
 
Titus said:
Many that deny that works are necessary for justification claim that James 2:24 speaks only of appearing righteous before people, not before God.

James 2:24 states that a person is justified. Not seen as justified, not shown as justified but justified.
Paul uses the same Greek word for justified in Romans 5:1 that James uses inJames 2:24.

Also there is no mention of men or human observers in the verse.
The subject of chapter 2 is what makes a person righteous not how they appear to others.

James is teaching on salvation not appearance.
James 2:14,
- what does it profit my brethren if someone says he has faith but does not have works can faith alone save him

James is discussing what kind of faith saves not what works justifies before men.

James 2:24, Romans 5:1
- you see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone

Paul uses the same Greek word.
Romans 5:1,
- therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Paul and James harmonize perfectly.
Justified by faith.
Justified by works.

Once you learn what true Biblical saving faith is. You no longer struggle with reconciling James teaching with Pauls.

John joins them together perfectly.
John 3:36,
- he who believes in the Son has eternal life but he who does not  obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him

Romans 5:1 justified by faith
James 2:24 justified by works.

Faith without works is dead. Justified by faith that is not dead but living, working out of love.

James teaches works are faith acting in obedience. This faith justifies.
Likewise Paul teaches faith that justifies works through love.
Galatians 5:6,
- for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision not uncircumcision means anything but faith working through love

Ephesians 2:8-9 salvation by grace through faith.
Hebrews 5:8-9 eternal life by obedience to Jesus.

- for by grace you have been saved through faith....
- Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all that obey Him

That's enough to know that the faith that saves is the faith that obeys.
James and Paul both teach the same obedient faith that Justifies before God.
Both reject faith alone apart from obedient works.

James 2:24,
- you see that a man is justified by works(obedience) and not by faith alone(belief that does not work obedience)
Click to expand...
one major issue.

1. Paul says faith with no works attached. lest we boast

2. Paul said it is of grace, and then declares if it is of grace it is no longer of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace

3. Paul said even our good deeds or works of righteousness. can not save us, we are saved by Gods mercy.

so no matter how you spin it. If your trying to be justified by faith plus works. your apposed to paul.

ps. Abraham was saved in Gen 15. By Grace through faith. just like paul said we all are (see romans 4) but not because of what abraham did..

The work James spoke of occured a few decades after abraham was saved. and just plainly shows abrahams faith was perfected. because he took steps of faith and it grew.. which flows perfectly with eph 2: 10
 
Dizerner said:
Works just mean actions in the original, aside from a few other definitions like miracles, but in this context.

We have to act to be saved. We do not passively sit around and one day God shoots us with grace like a bullet to the head.

So we need to separate out the idea of different kinds of works and not lump them all into the same thing.

Works of Law and works of merit is what Paul means by works, but he does not mean "any action whatsoever without distinction."
Click to expand...
if you are doiong work to

1. get saved
2. Stay saved
3. Keep from losing salvation

your doing works of merit

its the cross period. not the cross plus your measly works.
 
Titus said:
Paul is teaching the works of the law of Moses in the book of Romans. No one can be saved by working the law of Moses, Galatians 5:1-6.

James is teaching the works in the new testament law of Christ, His new testament commandments, Hebrews 5:8-9 ; 2Thessalonians 1:8,
- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Romans: works of the old law of Moses. Cannot justify.
James: works of the gospel of Christ, new law, do Justify.

James 2:24,
Ye see then how that by works(new testament gospel of Jesus)
A man is justified and not by faith only

Romans 4:2,
- for if Abraham were justified by works(law of Moses) he hath whereof to boast...

Also different kinds of works being discussed.

Paul in Romans 4 is teaching on merit based works that can never save. They are not even taught in any of Gods covenants.
James' works are works of faith.
Faith put in action by obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ, new law of liberty that frees all from sin.

Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ
Romans 8:2,
- for the law(Jesus' new testament law) of the Spirit in Christ Jesus hath made me Free
- from the law(old law of Moses) of sin and death
Click to expand...
um no

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE. But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS


eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST

sorry, But your interpretation of james causing James and Paul to be apposed to each other
 
Dizerner said:
The answer is justified before God not men.

Not only is seeking to be justified by men condemned in both OT and NT, the passage in James is directly related to obtaining the crown of life, using all the same legal salvation language Paul uses and always making God the main referent.

There is literal zero wiggle room for the antinomians to find a loophole with justification before men.
Click to expand...
lol

Abraham was not seeking to be justified before men.

He was proving his faith was real.

However, he was saved decades before in Gen 15.

God did not wait until he sacrificed his son to decide if pauls faith was real so he could save him
 
Eternally-Grateful said:
However, he was saved decades before in Gen 15.

God did not wait until he sacrificed his son
Click to expand...

The point of the passage is not WHEN Abraham got saved, but HOW he got saved.

Leaving his land of birth may well have been his first act of faith.
 
Dizerner said:
It's just a non sequitur.

Asserting it doesn't make it logical.
Click to expand...
its a fact.

Whether you believe it or not does not matter

this goes for all things. rewards pay raise, job promotion. anything you work hard to earn.

A gift is given to you. paid by someone else.. if it must be earned, then it is not a gift. it is legally called a downpayment, I am giving you this in exchanged for your work. if you fail to do the work. i will take the item back
 
Dizerner said:
The point of the passage is not WHEN Abraham got saved, but HOW he got saved.
Click to expand...
No

the point of the passage is those who CLAIM to have faith, but they have no works, And James is telling them to show their faith by their works.. as he will, and as Abraham did.

Its not about abrahams salvation, its about the people James wrote to assumed salvation
Dizerner said:
Leaving his land of birth may well have been his first act of faith.
Click to expand...
yet God did not say he was saved until he believed in in Gen 15.. which is when he was actually saved.

decades before he offered his son. Just like paul said in Romans 4

You have to make romans 4 and james 2 agree.. as you interpret it, they do not agree.
 

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