Jesus the Man Before John !

[101G]

@brightfame52, and @civic
brightfame52, since you said the Christ was at Genesis 1, and to civic, the son was made flesh at John 1:14, question to you both. "if true, to both, in Matthews 19:3 the Lord Jesus said, "he" a single person, and in John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". so how could Christ make anything if he was flesh and blood, and was made that flesh and blood at John 1:14, when God who the Lord Jesus referred to as "he" in Matthews 19:3, is "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF when he made Man male and female at Genesis 1? let's see the scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

and the term "ALONE" means, having no one else present. ....... Uh O! see your both ERRORS?.

remember, 101G is not arguing, only edifying.

101G.

 

[brightfame52]

So you think the Son had Flesh and Bones in Genesis 1 is that correct

John 1:14 corrects your heretical view and declares He became flesh at the Incarnation via the birth of Jesus in the womb of Mary.

I have posted what I think, cant you read ?

 

[101G]

I have posted what I think, cant you read ?

what one think is not acceptable, the scriptures don't change, nor to anyone's private interpretation.

101G.

 

[TomL]

There seems to be some reason why you cannot think Jesus was the Messiah, the son of God and therefore could refer to his body as the temple.

I think he saw Jesus and was excited and said oh my God and my Lord. We still talk like that today and everybody knows what we mean.

None of which appears in scripture

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

There is no "oh my God"

 

[Peterlag]

None of which appears in scripture

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

There is no "oh my God"

Sometimes I don't say it that way... oh my God. Sometimes I just say "my God" and everybody understands me. This is all you folks have? Twisted stuff that even a child could understand.

 

[TomL]

Sometimes I don't say it that way... oh my God. Sometimes I just say "my God" and everybody understands me. This is all you folks have? Twisted stuff that even a child could understand.

Still no support from the verse

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

 

[Peterlag]

Still no support from the verse

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Oh I have more. You want it? There are times when specific individuals are called Elohim, “God.” One example is Moses. In Exodus 7:1, God is speaking to Moses and says, “See, I have made thee God [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (Darby). Given the uniplural nature of Elohim, another translation is, “See, I have made you a god [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (BBE, KJV), but the fact is that Moses, who represents Elohim (“God”) can legitimately be called Elohim (“God”) in the biblical culture. Another example is when King Saul wanted to speak to the dead prophet Samuel and went to a woman who was a medium and necromancer (1 Sam. 28:7-15). When she conjured up “Samuel” (actually a demon impersonating Samuel), the woman said, “I see Elohim coming up from the ground” (1 Sam. 28:13). This is a good example of a person being called Elohim, and we could translate it “God” and understand the custom of God’s representatives being called “God,” or a more easily understood translation for the English reader is simply, “a god;” the woman saw “a god” coming up who she thought was Samuel.

 

[mikesw]

Oh I have more. You want it? There are times when specific individuals are called Elohim, “God.” One example is Moses. In Exodus 7:1, God is speaking to Moses and says, “See, I have made thee God [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (Darby). Given the uniplural nature of Elohim, another translation is, “See, I have made you a god [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (BBE, KJV), but the fact is that Moses, who represents Elohim (“God”) can legitimately be called Elohim (“God”) in the biblical culture. Another example is when King Saul wanted to speak to the dead prophet Samuel and went to a woman who was a medium and necromancer (1 Sam. 28:7-15). When she conjured up “Samuel” (actually a demon impersonating Samuel), the woman said, “I see Elohim coming up from the ground” (1 Sam. 28:13). This is a good example of a person being called Elohim, and we could translate it “God” and understand the custom of God’s representatives being called “God,” or a more easily understood translation for the English reader is simply, “a god;” the woman saw “a god” coming up who she thought was Samuel.

Peterlag shows unrelated basis and even unholy findings to associate these verses with Thomas' recognition of Christ as God. I would have hoped Peterlag could have tried to find better random proof texts (like quote mining) before posting these. It likely is getting harder to find any additional material to combat the testimony of scripture.

 

[civic]

Peterlag shows unrelated basis and even unholy findings to associate these verses with Thomas' recognition of Christ as God. I would have hoped Peterlag could have tried to find better random proof texts (like quote mining) before posting these. It likely is getting harder to find any additional material to combat the testimony of scripture.

yes the verses quoted have nothing to do with John 20:28.

 

[TomL]

Oh I have more. You want it? There are times when specific individuals are called Elohim, “God.” One example is Moses. In Exodus 7:1, God is speaking to Moses and says, “See, I have made thee God [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (Darby). Given the uniplural nature of Elohim, another translation is, “See, I have made you a god [Elohim] to Pharaoh” (BBE, KJV), but the fact is that Moses, who represents Elohim (“God”) can legitimately be called Elohim (“God”) in the biblical culture. Another example is when King Saul wanted to speak to the dead prophet Samuel and went to a woman who was a medium and necromancer (1 Sam. 28:7-15). When she conjured up “Samuel” (actually a demon impersonating Samuel), the woman said, “I see Elohim coming up from the ground” (1 Sam. 28:13). This is a good example of a person being called Elohim, and we could translate it “God” and understand the custom of God’s representatives being called “God,” or a more easily understood translation for the English reader is simply, “a god;” the woman saw “a god” coming up who she thought was Samuel.

Except we are dealing with Thomas calling Jesus my God (theos)

Still no support from the verse

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Produce a verse which has an apostle, a follower of Christ, calling someone else God (theos) and acknowledging him as their lord

BTW are you acknowledging Thomas called Jesus God (theos) and that your other argument is bogus?

 

[101G]

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Produce a verse which has an apostle, a follower of Christ, calling someone else God (theos) and acknowledging him as their lord

Ananias, he was a follower of the Lord Jesus, BOOK, CHAPTER, and VERSE, see acts chapter 9. and in, Acts 22 this same Ananias calls this same Lord Jesus "FATHER", Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

was it not the "Lord" Jesus who chose Paul/then Saul? then Thomas statement is fully correct, for the "Lord" Jesus is the "LORD" in flesh. the same one person.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Except we are dealing with Thomas calling Jesus my God (theos)

Still no support from the verse

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Produce a verse which has an apostle, a follower of Christ, calling someone else God (theos) and acknowledging him as their lord

BTW are you acknowledging Thomas called Jesus God (theos) and that your other argument is bogus?

I have put a lot of support in front of you. However, you will not accept it. Again, Thomas was probably referring to Jesus as a god which was common in that culture to refer to kings and other rulers in that way. Or Thomas was not referring to Jesus when he said God. You choose to believe you are right about how you see it even when I give a bunch of data showing it could have been different from your thinking.

 

[101G]

I have put a lot of support in front of you. However, you will not accept it. Again, Thomas was probably referring to Jesus as a god which was common in that culture to refer to kings and other rulers in that way. Or Thomas was not referring to Jesus when he said God. You choose to believe you are right about how you see it even when I give a bunch of data showing it could have been different from your thinking.

Hi Pete, you said, "Thomas was probably referring to Jesus as a god?" PROBABLY?, is that not a stretch? if so, why then the Lord Jesus does not correct him in a God verse or a god? now the reason why we say this is, ...... "There is no "god" with me saith the LORD, supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." and since God/the LORD is eternal, then, now, or future, no "god" is with him. now if the Lord Jesus ascend to the Father, then he could not be "a god" with the LORD. see your error now?

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Hi Pete, you said, "Thomas was probably referring to Jesus as a god?" PROBABLY?, is that not a stretch? if so, why then the Lord Jesus does not correct him in a God verse or a god? now the reason why we say this is, ...... "There is no "god" with me saith the LORD, supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." and since God/the LORD is eternal, then, now, or future, no "god" is with him. now if the Lord Jesus ascend to the Father, then he could not be "a god" with the LORD. see your error now?

101G.

I don't get your point. We are miles apart from our thinking. Why should Jesus correct Thomas for referring to him as a god. That's how they talked in that culture. Even today if I referred to the devil as a god everyone would know I did not mean God.

 

[101G]

I don't get your point. We are miles apart from our thinking. Why should Jesus correct Thomas for referring to him as a god. That's how they talked in that culture. Even today if I referred to the devil as a god everyone would know I did not mean God.

Just like we know Thomas didn't mean "god".

now, 101G's point is this. the Lord Jesus is no "god", that is clear in Deuteronomy 32:39 as well as in Psalms 110:1

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Just like we know Thomas didn't mean "god".

now, 101G's point is this. the Lord Jesus is no "god", that is clear in Deuteronomy 32:39 as well as in Psalms 110:1

101G.

You site Scripture thousands of years before Jesus was born and then act like I'm stupid.

 

[101G]

You site Scripture thousands of years before Jesus was born and then act like I'm stupid.

first thanks for the reply. no, you're not stupid, but IGNORANT of the scriptures. two mistakes on your part.
#1. the Lord Jesus was in the prophets of old telling them what to prophesy, meaning what was to come, thousands of years in the future. supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

where were JESUS, the Spirit of Christ? answer, in them ..... them who? the Prophets of old. yes, "THE HOLY SPIRIT", the Lord Jesus by name, without flesh, without bone, and without blood, testifying of himself to come in flesh, bone and blood, as the Christ. Oh my this is too easy.

#2. the Lord Jesus is not born, let 101G say it again, "THE Lord JESUS IS NOT BORN". listen, The Lord Jesus the "CHRIST" is born, not the Lord Jesus.... (smile). if you do not understand read Isaiah 9:6.

Bonus, #3. what did you say? "You site Scripture thousands of years before Jesus was born". what do you think prophecy is? ...... HELLO. now your bonus to prophecy. Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" BINGO, that's how 101G ....... BY THE SCRIPTURES can site Scripture thousands of years before Jesus, who is God, was "GIVEN", as the Ordinal Last, came in flesh...... listen, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." Pete, who came and SAVE US? ..... well some of us.... (smile). answer, GOD HIMSELF...... JESUS, the almighty one equally Shared, being G2758 κενόω kenoo, while in NATURAL FLESH. Oh this is just too easy not to understand.

101G.

 

[TomL]

I have put a lot of support in front of you. However, you will not accept it. Again, Thomas was probably referring to Jesus as a god which was common in that culture to refer to kings and other rulers in that way. Or Thomas was not referring to Jesus when he said God. You choose to believe you are right about how you see it even when I give a bunch of data showing it could have been different from your thinking.

None it was included in the passage

It is simply your theology added to scripture

We are dealing with Thomas calling Jesus my God (theos)

John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Produce a verse which has an apostle, a follower of Christ, calling someone else God (theos) and acknowledging him as their lord

BTW are you acknowledging Thomas called Jesus God (theos) and that your other argument is bogus?

 

[TomL]

Ananias, he was a follower of the Lord Jesus, BOOK, CHAPTER, and VERSE, see acts chapter 9. and in, Acts 22 this same Ananias calls this same Lord Jesus "FATHER", Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

was it not the "Lord" Jesus who chose Paul/then Saul? then Thomas statement is fully correct, for the "Lord" Jesus is the "LORD" in flesh. the same one person.

101G.

Jesus is indeed God and lord but he is not the Father or the Spirit

 

[101G]

Jesus is indeed God and lord but he is not the Father or the Spirit

so, you don't believe the scriptures?

101G.