brightfame52
Well-known member
Okay And? Do you believe the first man referred to in Job 15:7 is Adam?
7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?
Jesus the Man Before John !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?
That is a question
Not a statement of who the first man is.
1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
brightfame52
Well-known member
We will leave it at that
So be it
1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Shepherd Man !
Zech 13:7
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
This Prophecy ensured that the coming redeemer of Gods People, His Sheep, would be a Man, its the Man Christ Jesus [which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").]
Christ Jesus is the Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5 , and He would be also God and Man, in fact earlier the same Prophet identifies that Man as Jehovah Himself Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
The piercing here is equivalent to the sword in Zech 13:7 they both belong to the Justice of God rendered in His Redemptive and substitutionary Death for the Sheep, So the Prophet knew that the Shepherd Man the fellow was God, and again that He was known to be a Divine Man by the Prophet is seen here Zech 6:12
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
This Man shall build the Temple of the Lord ! See Matt 16:18 ! The Man Christ Jesus is responsible to build the Temple of the Lord, not a material , physical temple, but a Spiritual One made of Lively stones that He through His Spirit quickens to Life !
The same ones it is written of them this Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Its said soon after this Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
This Temple was Built by the Shepherd Man who is God Zech 6:12;13:7;12:10 ! 6
Zech 13:7
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
This Prophecy ensured that the coming redeemer of Gods People, His Sheep, would be a Man, its the Man Christ Jesus [which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").]
Christ Jesus is the Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5 , and He would be also God and Man, in fact earlier the same Prophet identifies that Man as Jehovah Himself Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
The piercing here is equivalent to the sword in Zech 13:7 they both belong to the Justice of God rendered in His Redemptive and substitutionary Death for the Sheep, So the Prophet knew that the Shepherd Man the fellow was God, and again that He was known to be a Divine Man by the Prophet is seen here Zech 6:12
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
This Man shall build the Temple of the Lord ! See Matt 16:18 ! The Man Christ Jesus is responsible to build the Temple of the Lord, not a material , physical temple, but a Spiritual One made of Lively stones that He through His Spirit quickens to Life !
The same ones it is written of them this Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Its said soon after this Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
This Temple was Built by the Shepherd Man who is God Zech 6:12;13:7;12:10 ! 6
brightfame52
Well-known member
Who is the Man, the Angel/Messenger of the Lord here ?
Judges 13:10,11;15-23
10 And the woman[Sampsons Mother] made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day.
11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.
15 And Manoah said unto the angel/messenger of the Lord[The Man of Vs 10-11], I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.
16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.
17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?
18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? This word secret is the same word wonderful in Isa 9:6 which describes Christ !
19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wonderously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.
20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.
21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God[elohim]
. This is a Testimony that the Man, the Angel of the Lord they seen was God ! It was God as a Man, the Mediator, the Man Christ Jesus, I believe !
23 But his wife said unto him, If the Lord were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.
The Only One who could be God and Man at the same time is the Mediator Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5 who is also God the Word Jn 1:1 !
Who is also Wonderful and the Mighty God Isa 9:6 !
Judges 13:10,11;15-23
10 And the woman[Sampsons Mother] made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day.
11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.
15 And Manoah said unto the angel/messenger of the Lord[The Man of Vs 10-11], I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.
16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.
17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?
18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? This word secret is the same word wonderful in Isa 9:6 which describes Christ !
19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wonderously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.
20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.
21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God[elohim]
. This is a Testimony that the Man, the Angel of the Lord they seen was God ! It was God as a Man, the Mediator, the Man Christ Jesus, I believe !
23 But his wife said unto him, If the Lord were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.
The Only One who could be God and Man at the same time is the Mediator Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5 who is also God the Word Jn 1:1 !
Who is also Wonderful and the Mighty God Isa 9:6 !
brightfame52
Well-known member
Jesus was a Man before He came down from Heaven !
Jesus was a Man before He came down from Heaven , this is a Great Mystery of our Faith, the Faith of Gods Elect, for we read in 1 Cor 15:47
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. What can be a more clearer testimony of scripture that Christ was a Man from Heaven or from above as stated also here Jn 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Jesus is speaking in this context as the Son of Man Jn 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
So as the Son of Man He is from above Jn 8:23 !
Also we read Him say as a Man on Earth Jn 6:38
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
This is Christ as the Mediatorial Man, between God and Man 1 Tim 2:5, and this Manhood of Christ is not from Mary but from Heaven Jn 8:23, its origin is not the womb of the virgin, but its from the womb of the Morning Ps 110:3
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. 6
Jesus was a Man before He came down from Heaven , this is a Great Mystery of our Faith, the Faith of Gods Elect, for we read in 1 Cor 15:47
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. What can be a more clearer testimony of scripture that Christ was a Man from Heaven or from above as stated also here Jn 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Jesus is speaking in this context as the Son of Man Jn 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
So as the Son of Man He is from above Jn 8:23 !
Also we read Him say as a Man on Earth Jn 6:38
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
This is Christ as the Mediatorial Man, between God and Man 1 Tim 2:5, and this Manhood of Christ is not from Mary but from Heaven Jn 8:23, its origin is not the womb of the virgin, but its from the womb of the Morning Ps 110:3
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. 6
civic
Well-known member
Good stuff @brightfame52 with the Pre Incarnate Son in the OT.
But He was not the 2nd Adam until the Incarnation- when the Word became flesh. John 1:14 means He was not flesh , a man prior.
hope this helps !!!
But He was not the 2nd Adam until the Incarnation- when the Word became flesh. John 1:14 means He was not flesh , a man prior.
hope this helps !!!
Nope
He was the word who became flesh in time
Philippians 2:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
brightfame52
Well-known member
You cant grasp it can you?
Your errors? No
He was the word who became flesh in time
Philippians 2:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
brightfame52
Well-known member
Who is this Angel Jacob speaks of here?
Gen 48:16
The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Gen 48:16
The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
civic
Well-known member
Correct He was not flesh prior to His birth in Bethlehem
We have a weird mix on this forum. Some are saying he did not exist. Others saying he was an impersonal thing. Some believe he was Michael the archangel and now we have one saying he was a man
civic
Well-known member
Yes lots of different doctrines some very unbiblical ones too.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Angel Jacob speaks of here is The Preincarnated Jesus Christ, the Angel/Messenger of the Covenant who would in the future give Himself for the sins of His People and redeem them from all sin, evil, and iniquity Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Yes but not a man at that time
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus Christ was and is both Man and God. Now as God He is uncreated, self existing, very God of very God ! But as Man, He was the first created before creation, I believe scripture indicates this Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
This speaks of the Man Christ Jesus as Mediator 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
This Mediatorial Manhood was not derived from mary when He born of a virgin in time, but this Manhood as Mediator began the Creation of God for Creation. 7
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
This speaks of the Man Christ Jesus as Mediator 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
This Mediatorial Manhood was not derived from mary when He born of a virgin in time, but this Manhood as Mediator began the Creation of God for Creation. 7
brightfame52
Well-known member
Angels often appear as Men, for instance were the three men before Abraham Angels ? Gen 18
And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Yes but they really arer angels or God
