Jesus the Man Before John !

[brightfame52]

Was He the Lord Christ Jesus before the Incarnation ?

Phil 2:5-6

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The answer is a resounding YES ! Most people believe, and I also believed once, and without warrant, that the Being of the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5, that He did not exist until after being born of the virgin mary, but this was because of spiritual ignorance, for He was the Only Begotten Son of God, in the form of God, before His Incarnation, and so says our text Phil 2:6

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

For it was while in this Preincarnate form, He had the Mind of Christ Jesus ! It was then in pre creation that Christ Jesus as Mediator was in the Form of God, prior to taking on a entirely different form, the form of a servant by the incarnation ! 6

 

[TomL]

Was He the Lord Christ Jesus before the Incarnation ?

Phil 2:5-6

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The answer is a resounding YES ! Most people believe, and I also believed once, and without warrant, that the Being of the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5, that He did not exist until after being born of the virgin mary, but this was because of spiritual ignorance, for He was the Only Begotten Son of God, in the form of God, before His Incarnation, and so says our text Phil 2:6

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

For it was while in this Preincarnate form, He had the Mind of Christ Jesus ! It was then in pre creation that Christ Jesus as Mediator was in the Form of God, prior to taking on a entirely different form, the form of a servant by the incarnation ! 6

John 1:14 (The Modern Language Bible: Berkeley Version) — 14 And the Word became man and lived for a time among us, and we viewed His glory—such glory as an only son receives from his father—abounding in grace and truth.

 

[101G]

@101G


Yes but He existed before He came in the flesh, Job Testifies to that Job 19:25-26

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

LOOK, did you not understand what 101G said? even your onw answer .... which you don't even understand answer what 101G had said. listen closely, Jesus the Christ, (FLESH, BONE, and BLOOD did not exist in the OT, but "JESUS" the Spirit always did. got that? listen to what you said, "Yes but He existed before He came in the flesh". so, God in flesh did not exist in the OT, but was to COME in due, or the fulness of time.... scripture, Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law," is not the Son "GOD?" and there is only one GOD.

101G.

 

[101G]

Was He the Lord Christ Jesus before the Incarnation ?

no, this is the problem. he is JESUS, God almighty the Spirit.... BEFORE he took on flesh bone and blood, as the H259 ECHAD as the Ordinal Last that was to come. he is "Lord" in flesh which was to Come, per John 1:1.

101G

 

[brightfame52]

LOOK, did you not understand what 101G said? even your onw answer .... which you don't even understand answer what 101G had said. listen closely, Jesus the Christ, (FLESH, BONE, and BLOOD did not exist in the OT, but "JESUS" the Spirit always did. got that? listen to what you said, "Yes but He existed before He came in the flesh". so, God in flesh did not exist in the OT, but was to COME in due, or the fulness of time.... scripture, Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law," is not the Son "GOD?" and there is only one GOD.

101G.

Yes before He came in human flesh derived from mary, that which was natural, however their is a heavenly Spiritual flesh He had before 1 Cor 15

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

His Native Celestial Body wasn't appropriate to come and die for sin, He humbled Himself and took on a body like sinners, yet without sin

 

[101G]

Yes before He came in human flesh derived from mary

ERROR, she was only a surrogate mother, for the Lord Jesus has no mother, but the Christ do.

however their is a heavenly Spiritual flesh He had before 1 Cor 15

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

that is in the resurrection, LISTEN closely, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" 1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:" 1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body."

His Native Celestial Body wasn't appropriate to come and die for sin, He humbled Himself and took on a body like sinners, yet without sin

101G said that. Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Um that appears to be a bald denial

John 1:1 (UASV) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28 (UASV) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Titus 2:13 (UASV) — 13 Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

2 Peter 1:1 (UASV) — 1 Simon Peter, a slave, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have acquired a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

“My Lord and my God.” A very likely way to understand John 20:28 is that Thomas had realized the power of God working in Jesus, and in saying “my Lord and my God” he was pointing out that Jesus did, in fact, reveal God in a unique and powerful way. In seeing the resurrected Jesus, Thomas clearly saw both the Lord Jesus, and the God who raised Jesus from the dead, and he stated that fact.

And here's John 1:1
Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

 

[101G]

“My Lord and my God.” A very likely way to understand John 20:28 is that Thomas had realized the power of God working in Jesus, and in saying “my Lord and my God” he was pointing out that Jesus did, in fact, reveal God in a unique and powerful way. In seeing the resurrected Jesus, Thomas clearly saw both the Lord Jesus, and the God who raised Jesus from the dead, and he stated that fact.

no, that want fly, all seen the miracles he had done. and all knew he was Lord, and yes God in flesh equally shared as H259 ECHAD states. and what all the prophets predicted of him, (GOD), coming in flesh.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

no, that want fly, all seen the miracles he had done. and all knew he was Lord, and yes God in flesh equally shared as H259 ECHAD states. and what all the prophets predicted of him, (GOD), coming in flesh.

101G.

I have a theory as to why this trinity is held so tight in everyone's grip. They all say because it's in the Bible, but I know it's not. So I search for the why. Here's my theory. Trinity folks believe God came down as a man to show the Christian by example how to be a loving good person. Then the Christian lives out their life trying to follow after the footsteps of the example Jesus left for them. Do I have this correct?

 

[brightfame52]

ERROR, she was only a surrogate mother, for the Lord Jesus has no mother, but the Christ do.

that is in the resurrection, LISTEN closely, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" 1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:" 1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body."

101G said that. Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

101G.

You know what Celestial mean ?

 

[101G]

I have a theory as to why this trinity is held so tight in everyone's grip. They all say because it's in the Bible, but I know it's not. So I search for the why. Here's my theory. Trinity folks believe God came down as a man to show the Christian by example how to be a loving good person. Then the Christian lives out their life trying to follow after the footsteps of the example Jesus left for them. Do I have this correct?

no, they think that the son came down from heaven a separate and distinct "PERSON". which the bible do not agree with. the Son is a title that shows the character or the moral characteristics of God "EQUALLY SHARED" in flesh and not a biological son.

the trinity believers are stuck on God being three separate and distinct persons, as one Spirit, which is anti-bible.

101G.

 

[101G]

You know what Celestial mean ?

yes, heavenly, or spiritual. and do you know what resurrected means? ..... (smile).

101G.

 

[brightfame52]

yes, heavenly, or spiritual. and do you know what resurrected means? ..... (smile).

101G.

Prior to the Incarnation, Jesus had a Heavenly, Celestial Body, Probably similar to that which he briefly transfigured to on the Mount 2 Pet 1:17-18

17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Matt 17:1-2

nd after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Probably Jesus referred to this heavenly Mediator Celestial Glory here Jn 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[TomL]

“My Lord and my God.” A very likely way to understand John 20:28 is that Thomas had realized the power of God working in Jesus, and in saying “my Lord and my God” he was pointing out that Jesus did, in fact, reveal God in a unique and powerful way. In seeing the resurrected Jesus, Thomas clearly saw both the Lord Jesus, and the God who raised Jesus from the dead, and he stated that fact.

And here's John 1:1
Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

Sorry, there is nothing in the verse to support your claim

John 20:28 (UASV) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 1:1 (UASV) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Titus 2:13 (UASV) — 13 Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

2 Peter 1:1 (UASV) — 1 Simon Peter, a slave, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have acquired a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry, there is nothing in the verse to support your claim

John 20:28 (UASV) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

I feel the same way as you. That there's nothing in your thinking that fits with the verse.

 

[TomL]

I feel the same way as you. That there's nothing in your thinking that fits with the verse.

Scripture apparently shows otherwise

John 20:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

What did Thomas say to him without you adding to the verse?

 

[Peterlag]

Scripture apparently shows otherwise

John 20:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

What did Thomas say to him without you adding to the verse?

We have to remember that Thomas’ statement occurred in a moment of surprise and even perhaps shock. Thomas saw that what Jesus had said was true. The Father had worked in Jesus and raised him from the dead. Thomas, looking at the living Jesus, saw both Jesus and the God who raised him from the dead. It is also important to know that the early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters. That means that technically, both Elohim in Hebrew and Theos in Greek should always be translated “GOD,” in all capital letters. Since the biblical languages used the word “GOD” to refer to God, lesser divinities such as the Devil, angels, and demons, and also to rulers, judges, and people who represented God in some way, Bible readers are forced to use the context and scope of Scripture to determine whether the modern English translation should be “God,” “god,” or “gods.”

 

[101G]

Prior to the Incarnation, Jesus had a Heavenly, Celestial Body, Probably similar to that which he briefly transfigured to on the Mount 2 Pet 1:17-18

ERROR, what's in a vision is not reality at present or PAST. let 101G give you some heads up. Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

this is why visions and prophecies are given to let us know what's to COME. NOT NOW, (PRESENT), but future, to come. do you think the Lord Jesus had a Heavenly, Celestial Body already in Genesis 1:1? if so why say God is a Spirit in Glorified flesh from the jump. no, this is to come. just as with man, LET "US" make man. do you actually think it was more than one person who made man? are you kidding, only ONE PERSON made man, for the very next verse clearly states only ONE PERSON made man. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

and if you cannot believe that, can you believe the Lord Jesus himself when he said only ONE PERSON made man? listen and LEARN, Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,".
"he" is a single person, so why did God say "US" and "OUR" when making Man? answer, God was to come as a Man, his own IMAGE. just as Isaiah 46:10 says, "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

101G hope you do understand prophecy, 101G hope you do.

101G suggest you read this post again for perfect understanding.

101G.

 

[brightfame52]

ERROR, what's in a vision is not reality at present or PAST. let 101G give you some heads up. Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

this is why visions and prophecies are given to let us know what's to COME. NOT NOW, (PRESENT), but future, to come. do you think the Lord Jesus had a Heavenly, Celestial Body already in Genesis 1:1? if so why say God is a Spirit in Glorified flesh from the jump. no, this is to come. just as with man, LET "US" make man. do you actually think it was more than one person who made man? are you kidding, only ONE PERSON made man, for the very next verse clearly states only ONE PERSON made man. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

and if you cannot believe that, can you believe the Lord Jesus himself when he said only ONE PERSON made man? listen and LEARN, Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,".
"he" is a single person, so why did God say "US" and "OUR" when making Man? answer, God was to come as a Man, his own IMAGE. just as Isaiah 46:10 says, "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

101G hope you do understand prophecy, 101G hope you do.

101G suggest you read this post again for perfect understanding.

101G.

Lol all this speaks nothing against what I stated.

 

[brightfame52]

@101G

LET "US" make man. do you actually think it was more than one person who made man? are you kidding, only ONE PERSON made man, for the very next verse clearly states only ONE PERSON made man. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.