Of course, I do, which is why I know Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit
Jesus the Man Before John !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
101G
Well-known member
@TomL,
Here the Lord Jesus is God, who is father and Holy Spirit. Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." God is mediator. now this, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
the term "advocate" G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822
who is the comforter, the Holy Spirit, and he's our INTERCESSOR, see Romans 8:26. NOW, is not our Mediator God, per Galatians 3:20, and our advocate 1 John 2:1? yes, so is not Jesus those title holders. yes, but you might say he's a different person from the Father, because 1 John 2:1 says, "WITH" the Father. well that's where you ERROR at, because, WITH here and at John 1:1 indicate the same one person... let's see it in scripture.
Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
Two persons? or the SAME ONE PERSON. let the bible tell us. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, the term "ALSO" means, "In addition too". BINGO, the same one person, just as in John 1:1 the was "WITH" Gos.... and was GOD, the same one person.
now, if one would go to Word hippo and under the heading,"One who reconciles enemies, or pleads for another", one will see the synonyms word for "advocate", which are intercessor, and mediator. here ius the LINK. https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/advocate.html
101G.
Here the Lord Jesus is God, who is father and Holy Spirit. Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." God is mediator. now this, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
the term "advocate" G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822
who is the comforter, the Holy Spirit, and he's our INTERCESSOR, see Romans 8:26. NOW, is not our Mediator God, per Galatians 3:20, and our advocate 1 John 2:1? yes, so is not Jesus those title holders. yes, but you might say he's a different person from the Father, because 1 John 2:1 says, "WITH" the Father. well that's where you ERROR at, because, WITH here and at John 1:1 indicate the same one person... let's see it in scripture.
Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
Two persons? or the SAME ONE PERSON. let the bible tell us. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, the term "ALSO" means, "In addition too". BINGO, the same one person, just as in John 1:1 the was "WITH" Gos.... and was GOD, the same one person.
now, if one would go to Word hippo and under the heading,"One who reconciles enemies, or pleads for another", one will see the synonyms word for "advocate", which are intercessor, and mediator. here ius the LINK. https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/advocate.html
101G.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Are you asking for a verse where someone is called a god that is not God?
Peterlag
Well-known member
Now you got something that makes sense @101G and so I understand what you are now referring to and I can help you because I know the Scriptures well.
“the spirit of Christ.” This verse uses the phrase “spirit of Christ” because God revealed information about the Christ to believers via the gift of holy spirit. Unfortunately, some people have misunderstood the phrase and think it means Christ himself was present in the Old Testament, but he was not. In the first place, the phrase “spirit of Christ” never appears in the Old Testament. The “spirit of the Lord” or “the spirit of God” appears over and over, but never the “spirit of Christ.” If Jesus were alive during the Old Testament, we would expect to see that designation, but we do not.
The gift of holy spirit that God gave in the Old Testament and Gospels was always the same spirit, but it was referred to by different names depending on the context. We are used to this when it comes to God. There is only one God, but He has many different names and titles. Similarly, there is only one gift of holy spirit, but it is referred to by different names in different contexts. When it is associated with wisdom, it is called the “spirit of wisdom” (Exod. 28:3; Deut. 34:9; Eph. 1:17). When it is associated with grace, it is called the “spirit of grace” (Zech. 12:10; Heb. 10:29). When it is related to glory, it is called the “spirit of glory” (1 Pet. 4:14). It is called the “spirit of adoption” when it is associated with our everlasting life (Rom. 8:15, which is translated as “spirit of sonship” in some versions). It is called “the spirit of truth” when it is associated with the truth we learn by revelation (John 14:17; 16:13). When it came with the same power as it brought to Elijah, it was called “the spirit of Elijah” (2 Kings 2:15). These are not different spirits. All the names refer to the one gift of holy spirit that God gives.
When Peter mentions that “the spirit of Christ” was upon prophets as they “predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glory that would follow,” it is easy to see that the spirit is called the “spirit of Christ” because it is associated with Christ, foretold of Christ, and was the same holy spirit as Jesus himself received at his baptism, not because Christ was actually alive during the Old Testament. Thus, the genitive phrase, “the spirit of Christ” is a genitive of relation; the spirit that is related to Christ.
I think it is clear
None it was included in the passage
It is simply your theology added to scripture
We are dealing with Thomas calling Jesus my God (theos)
John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Produce a verse which has an apostle, a follower of Christ, calling someone else God (theos) and acknowledging him as their lord
BTW are you acknowledging Thomas called Jesus God (theos) and that your other argument is bogus?
Nope
Matthew 3:13–17 (KJV 1900) — 13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
The Son is not the father is not the Spirit
Peterlag
Well-known member
Well, there's something wrong someplace if I'm wrong since God cannot die and if Thomas thought Jesus was God then he certainly would not of had doubts of God getting up from the dead.
101G
Well-known member
ERROR, JESUS, who is God revealed information about himself to come ... as the Christ.
Another ERROR, there is only "one" and the same Spirit, no matter the titles.
Another ERROR. LISTEN CAREFULLY, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
see that term "WITH" here, do you know what it means? if not, let 101G reveal a secret to you about this word and the Godhead. Pay attention.
#1. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
if you think that this is speaking of two separate and distinct persons as in Philippians 2:6, then you grossly ERROR. because this is the same one person who is First and "WITH" the Last. LET'S SEE IT B Y BIBLE.... OK.
#2. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." bingo, THERE IS THE REVELATION. ....... "ALSO" means, in addition; too....... there is all the answer for every question concerning the Spirit of Christ, and God..... the SAME "ONE" PERSON.
so, the Spirit of Christ is JESUS who is God, and Lord, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. Just as the term "Beginning" in Genesis 1:1 clearly states.
so you might want to re-think your position.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
ERROR on your part, and here's why. the verse said "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", where in this verse says, this is the Father's voice? book chapter and verse. so don't assume, by adding to the word of God. ok. so, book chapter and verse that says, at the baptism of the Lord Jesus this is the Father's voice?
101G
Lets see
We have someone speaking of his son
Do you know what one who has a son is?
His Father
hello
101G
Well-known member
LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh dear, how blind can one be. let 101G school you. you said, "We have someone speaking of his son, Do you know what one who has a son is? His Father"
well, let's see if what you said, is TRUE. Listen and Learn. after reading this post, you can copy it for future references.
“A Voice From Heaven”
Many who have been fooled by the double tongue, has been lead down a road of destruction. many by their belief, (in three persons), and from unfound hear say, have been sold a bag of worthless, (as some say), garbage. and here is some of the garbage sold..... "the voice from heaven is the Father's voice". who told us that "LIE?". the bible never said it was the Father's voice, it said "A Voice", and the lie came in on an ASSUMPTION. many wanting to believe so hard in the three person ERROR, until they just simply ASSUME it's the Father's voice by what was said. this is not only a spiritual ERROR, but a big one.... never add or take away from the word of God. scripture, Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." many wrongly and willing make this mistake. oh yes, it's a mistake easy to make, (for we all are human, and make mistakes) ... here, the "ASSUMPTION" is the mistake. let's examine this verse and its implications. first things first. in studying the bible, ... "WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT" .... he will guide US in all TRUTH. and here in this setting we need his guidance. in Hermeneutics there is a section of study called the "NEAR and FAR Application". meaning what happen before, (near), will happen again in the Future, (Far) in similar application. and here, in Matthew 3:17, (at the Lord Jesus baptism), is a good example of this. so let the HOLY Spirit lead us.
so "A" voice from heaven spoke, but was it God's the one whom many say is the Father's Voice? the bible do not say that, it says only "A VOICE", from heaven. let's see in scripture when a Voice from heaven is speaking on God's behalf and clear up the matter. the book of Genesis, God told Abraham to sacrifice his only Begotten Son... do we see any similarities here at the Lord Jesus baptism? .... "only Begotten Son". (FAR Application, Abraham only begotten Son, and NEAR Application, God's only begotten Son) so God told Abraham to sacrifice his only Begotten Son, and when Abraham was about to do it, what happen? let the bible tell us. Genesis 22:10 "And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son." Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I." Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." HOLD IT, STOP THE PRESS, what did the angel say? listen, "seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me". wait a second, the angel never commanded Abraham to sacrifice his ... ONLY BEGOTTEN SON... no, God did. but is was the angel speaking from ... "heaven" on God's behalf. the verse clearly states it was the angel ... "VOICE" from heaven that spoke.
never assume anything..... KNOW. and if the bible never say it was the Father's Voice, then don't ASSUME, and ADD to God's Holy Word, that's spiritual suicide and the road to destruction, so never, ever ASSUME anything, let the bible tell you. let's go on. "Genesis 22:13 "And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son."Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time," (WHERE DID THE ANGEL VOICE COME FROM? ... THAT'S RIGHT HEAVEN). Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:" (WAS THIS GOD SPEAKING OR THE ANGEL, the ANGEL, on GOD'S BEHALF). Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;" Genesis 22:18 "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.", when was this command, and WHO spoke to Abraham in this command? answer, Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am." Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."
so, we can see that "a Voice" from heaven is not always God's VOICE, but conveys his "WORDS". so never assume anything unless the bible say so. for if we did not have the actual speaker from heaven identified, here in Genesis 22 we could ... "ASSUME" by the words spoken that it is the Father's voice. so by the guidance of the Holy Spirit we will not make this mistake of "ASSUMPTION". for when the Bible say a Voice, then we say a voice unless we're told who voice it is, (and the bible never did here in Matthews 3:17). so this MISTAKE of ASSUMPTION is corrected and exposed for what it is, a false ASSUMPTION.
so TomL, want to try that again? never add to or take away from the word of God..... ok. peace in God.
101G.
Peterlag
Well-known member
It's totally impossible for anything to be two things. Nothing can be 100 percent of two things. Nobody could be a 200 percent creature. Again we cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.
Peterlag
Well-known member
What Hebrew word did Thomas use? It was not YHWH, for "my YHWH" never appears in all of scripture. The translators who translated the Gospels from Hebrew to Greek could not have been Jews for they made not difference in translating both YHWH and Elohim into "theos". Thomas obviously said "my Elohim" which means "my mighty one".
What word did Apostle John use to record Thomas' words? He used "Θεός" (Theos), not Elohim. Why do you even bring up the word "Elohim"? You're parroting whatever Judaizing cults are saying. May you and your Judaizing friends be happy with each other.
Whenever heretics say they know better than the Apostles then it's time for everyone to expose them as heretics.
To: @Peterlag:
You've been exposed as someone who thinks he knows better than what Apostles wrote in the NT. Are you going to run away again and keep hiding? I wouldn't be surprised at all if you keep running away from the truth as you always do.
Run Peterlag Run!
Theos Greek not Hebrew
We are dealing with Thomas calling Jesus my God (theos)
John 20:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Produce a verse which has an apostle, a follower of Christ, calling someone else God (theos) and acknowledging him as their lord
Sorry, that is just your unsupported claim
The bible calls Christ both God and man.
You just choose to not believe
Sorry but once again
We have someone speaking of his son
Do you know what one who has a son is?
His Father
hello
Ever seen a son also being his father?
PS an angel is a messenger
Peterlag
Well-known member
It's not an unsupported claim since there's no teaching anywhere in the Bible on the trinity. The Jews never saw it nor the New Testament. There's not one paragraph or chapter teaching it. What you have is scraps of verses scattered all over the Bible that you swear by that are always twisted. Like this one for example...
What Hebrew word did Thomas use? It was not YHWH, for "my YHWH" never appears in all of scripture. The translators who translated the Gospels from Hebrew to Greek could not have been Jews for they made no difference in translating both YHWH and Elohim into "theos". Thomas obviously said "my Elohim" which means "my mighty one".
