Jesus the Man Before John !

[TomL]

We have to remember that Thomas’ statement occurred in a moment of surprise and even perhaps shock. Thomas saw that what Jesus had said was true. The Father had worked in Jesus and raised him from the dead. Thomas, looking at the living Jesus, saw both Jesus and the God who raised him from the dead. It is also important to know that the early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters. That means that technically, both Elohim in Hebrew and Theos in Greek should always be translated “GOD,” in all capital letters. Since the biblical languages used the word “GOD” to refer to God, lesser divinities such as the Devil, angels, and demons, and also to rulers, judges, and people who represented God in some way, Bible readers are forced to use the context and scope of Scripture to determine whether the modern English translation should be “God,” “god,” or “gods.”

Sorry there is nothing in the text about Thomas seeing Jesus and the Father or of speaking to Jesus and the father

You are simply altering the text to support your doctrine

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry there is nothing in the text about Thomas seeing Jesus and the Father or of speaking to Jesus and the father

You are simply altering the text to support your doctrine

There is something in the text that Thomas was seeing Jesus because he was standing right in front of him. And he could see the work of God because Jesus was standing right in front of him. Also if the Apostle Thomas thought Jesus was God. Would he have not believed God could have gotten up from the dead?

 

[TomL]

There is something in the text that Thomas was seeing Jesus because he was standing right in front of him. And he could see the work of God because Jesus was standing right in front of him. Also if the Apostle Thomas thought Jesus was God. Would he have not believed God could have gotten up from the dead?

About Jesus yes. He was speaking to Jesus saying my lord and my God

You have to twist scripture to deny this

 

[101G]

Lol all this speaks nothing against what I stated.

so you admit that U do not understand prophecy.......

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ?

are you that nieve to believe that? the Image was to COME, Listen and Learn, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." Oh my, my, my, my.

101G.

 

[brightfame52]

so you admit that U do not understand prophecy.......

are you that nieve to believe that? the Image was to COME, Listen and Learn, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." Oh my, my, my, my.

101G.

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.

 

[Peterlag]

About Jesus yes. He was speaking to Jesus saying my lord and my God

You have to twist scripture to deny this

How do I twist Scripture when a man was standing in front of him? A man born of a woman that had flesh and blood kinda just like me. So he looked like a man and walking like a man and talked like a man. Where's the twist? Somebody looked at me the other day after I got a hair cut and said oh my God Peterlag. And nobody standing nearby thought I was being called God.

 

[101G]

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.

LOOK God is the beginning, and the END..... got it now. when he came in flesh he already knew it at Genesis 1:1 all time is one time for the LORD JESUS. understand now?

101G.

 

[101G]

There is something in the text that Thomas was seeing Jesus because he was standing right in front of him. And he could see the work of God because Jesus was standing right in front of him. Also if the Apostle Thomas thought Jesus was God. Would he have not believed God could have gotten up from the dead?

the work is not what he saw, and two he believed that Jesus was God, for he Jesus raised up his own body. and the disciple believed it.... listen, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

what did the Lord Jesus say unto them? John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
now, did not the apostles, (a witness to John 2), said on the day of Pentecost, by Peter, Acts 2:23 "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:" Acts 2:24 "Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it."

well now, Peter was full of the Holy Ghost when he made that statement, and remembered with the Lord Jesus said in John 2. so did he LIE when he said God raised up the Lord Jesus body, or did the Lord Jesus LIE, (God forbid to both), when he said that HE would raise up his body. the conclusion is either the Lord Jesus LIED, or the Holy Spirit LIED, (God forbid, to both), or Jesus the Lord is God. and 101G believe the scriptures...... meaning the Lord Jesus is God in flesh.

101G.

 

[TomL]

How do I twist Scripture when a man was standing in front of him? A man born of a woman that had flesh and blood kinda just like me. So he looked like a man and walking like a man and talked like a man. Where's the twist? Somebody looked at me the other day after I got a hair cut and said oh my God Peterlag. And nobody standing nearby thought I was being called God.

Very simply when you make Thomas's remarks to Jesus to remarks about Jesus and the Father

John 20:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Only one person is being addressed

 

[Peterlag]

the work is not what he saw, and two he believed that Jesus was God, for he Jesus raised up his own body. and the disciple believed it.... listen, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

what did the Lord Jesus say unto them? John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
now, did not the apostles, (a witness to John 2), said on the day of Pentecost, by Peter, Acts 2:23 "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:" Acts 2:24 "Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it."

well now, Peter was full of the Holy Ghost when he made that statement, and remembered with the Lord Jesus said in John 2. so did he LIE when he said God raised up the Lord Jesus body, or did the Lord Jesus LIE, (God forbid to both), when he said that HE would raise up his body. the conclusion is either the Lord Jesus LIED, or the Holy Spirit LIED, (God forbid, to both), or Jesus the Lord is God. and 101G believe the scriptures...... meaning the Lord Jesus is God in flesh.

101G.

There seems to be some reason why you cannot think Jesus was the Messiah, the son of God and therefore could refer to his body as the temple.

Very simply when you make Thomas's remarks to Jesus to remarks about Jesus and the Father

John 20:28–29 (NASB 2020) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Only one person is being addressed

I think he saw Jesus and was excited and said oh my God and my Lord. We still talk like that today and everybody knows what we mean.

 

[brightfame52]

Was He the Lord Christ Jesus before the Incarnation ?2


Another scripture that proves the same, that reveals that the Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediator Man Person, Glorified before the incarnation, it is 2 Cor 8:9

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

He had been rich in His God Man Mediator Glory, equal with God, before the World began Jn 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Phil 2:5-6 Now I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ in His Preincarnate existence as God Man Mediator, looked the way He did to James Peter and John here on the Mount Matt 17:1-3

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

2 Pet 1:17-19

17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

I believe Moses had seen Him before and so did recognize Him on the Mount when with Him ! When did Moses see Him before ? Ex 24:10-18

10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

13 And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God.

14 And he said unto the elders, Tarry ye here for us, until we come again unto you: and, behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matters to do, let him come unto them.

15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.

16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

Notice Vs 10, they saw something under His Feet, So this was a Person existing as the God of Israel, this would have been the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Mediator between God and Men, in Union with the Godhead.

Jonh Gill writes on Ex 24:10

And they saw the God of Israel,.... The Targum of Jonathan restrains this to Nadab and Abihu whereas it is doubtless true of Moses and Aaron, and the seventy elders, who all saw him, and who were witnesses to the people that it was a divine Person that spoke to Moses, and delivered the laws unto him, to be observed by them; which seems to be the reason of their being called up, and favoured with this sight which must not be understood as of anything criminal in them, as if they curiously looked and pried to see something they should not, for which they deserved some sort of punishment, as the Targum intimates; but of a privilege, and a very high one they were favoured with: and this sight they had was not by a vision of prophecy, or with the eyes of their understanding, but corporeally; they saw the Son of God, the God of Israel, in an human form, as a pledge and presage of his future incarnation, who is the Angel that spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai, as Stephen says, and the Lord that was among the angels there, who afterwards became incarnate, and having done his work on earth, ascended on high, Acts 7:38.

and there was under his feet; which shows that there was a visible form, and that human; nor is this contrary to what is said, "ye saw no similitude"; Deuteronomy 4:12, since what is here related does not respect the same time, nor the same persons; this was after the giving of the ten commands, that at the time of it; this is said of the seventy elders, with Moses, Aaron, and his two sons, that of all the people:

 

[brightfame52]

LOOK God is the beginning, and the END..... got it now. when he came in flesh he already knew it at Genesis 1:1 all time is one time for the LORD JESUS. understand now?

101G.

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.

 

[101G]

There seems to be some reason why you cannot think Jesus was the Messiah, the son of God and therefore could refer to his body as the temple.

as the Christ he is.... (smile), but not JESUS...... you still don't get it ... do you?

101G.

 

[101G]

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.

101G know this. but do you believe that God had flesh, bone, and blood at Genesis 1:1, yes or no?

will be looking for your answer.

101G.

 

[brightfame52]

101G know this. but do you believe that God had flesh, bone, and blood at Genesis 1:1, yes or no?

will be looking for your answer.

101G.

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.

 

[civic]

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.

So you think the Son had Flesh and Bones in Genesis 1 is that correct

John 1:14 corrects your heretical view and declares He became flesh at the Incarnation via the birth of Jesus in the womb of Mary.

 

[101G]

This actually confirms my point, why do you think Adam had the shape and image he had as a man ? Why you think eve was in him at his creation ? Jesus the Man Mediator in Union with the Word made Adam in His Image and Likeness, and the elect bride was in Christ as was eve was in Adam.

did God have flesh, bone, and blood at Genesis 1:1 yes or no?

101G

 

[101G]

So you think the Son had Flesh and Bones in Genesis 1 is that correct

John 1:14 corrects your heretical view and declares He became flesh at the Incarnation via the birth of Jesus in the womb of Mary.

Civic, on point, but a question. was it the Lord Jesus at Genesis 1 who Made Man male and Female, yes or no?

this is not for argument, but for our edification. 101G honor your opinion....

101G.

 

[civic]

Civic, on point, but a question. was it the Lord Jesus at Genesis 1 who Made Man male and Female, yes or no?

this is not for argument, but for our edification. 101G honor your opinion....

101G.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit created all things. Man was made in the image and likeness of his Creator. God said let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness. This shows God is Plural in Persons.

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit created all things. Man was made in the image and likeness of his Creator. God said let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness. This shows God is Plural in Persons.

hope this helps !!!

No, this did not help, and here's why. Listen closely, Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

The Lord Jesus said, "he" made them male and female at the beginning, which Genesis 1:27 confirms. and "he" is a single person correct. and "he" here is GOD, a single person who made man. is this correct, yes or no?

101G.