Before Abraham I am

[Runningman]

Why do you stop there?

Micah 5:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, Though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; Whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Your denial of pre-existence is refuted

Moot point since the KJV's version of this verse isn't a literal translation, but rather more like an interpretation rather than a translation at all. Archē in the Greek Septuagint means beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point." Means Jesus was created.

Scriptural proof Jesus was created:

Revelation 3 (KJV)​

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;​

​

Micah 5 (NIV)​

2“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,​

though you are small among the clans a of Judah,​

out of you will come for me​

one who will be ruler over Israel,​

whose origins are from of old,​

from ancient times.”​

 

[Runningman]

Just tossing into the pot.

Everlasting should do it.... "And Whose goings forth [are] from of old from everlasting."

Hebrew

​

​

​

◄ Micah 5:2 ►

​

Text Analysis Go to Parallel Hebrew Strong's Hebrew English Morphology 859 [e] וְאַתָּ֞ה wə-’at-tāh But you Conj-w | Pro-2ms בֵּֽית־ bêṯ- in Prep 1035 [e] לֶ֣חֶם le-ḥem Bethlehem N-proper-fs 672 [e] אֶפְרָ֗תָה ’ep̄-rā-ṯāh, Ephrathah N-proper-fs 6810 [e] צָעִיר֙ ṣā-‘îr little Adj-ms 1961 [e] לִֽהְיוֹת֙ lih-yō-wṯ [Though] you are Prep-l | V-Qal-Inf 505 [e] בְּאַלְפֵ֣י bə-’al-p̄ê among the thousands Prep-b | Number-mpc 3063 [e] יְהוּדָ֔ה yə-hū-ḏāh, of Judah N-proper-ms 4480 [e] מִמְּךָ֙ mim-mə-ḵā [Yet] out of you Prep | 2ms לִ֣י lî to Me Prep | 1cs 3318 [e] יֵצֵ֔א yê-ṣê, shall come forth V-Qal-Imperf-3ms 1961 [e] לִֽהְי֥וֹת lih-yō-wṯ the one to be Prep-l | V-Qal-Inf 4910 [e] מוֹשֵׁ֖ל mō-wō-šêl Ruler V-Qal-Prtcpl-ms 3478 [e] בְּיִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל bə-yiś-rā-’êl; in Israel Prep-b | N-proper-ms 4163 [e] וּמוֹצָאֹתָ֥יו ū-mō-w-ṣā-’ō-ṯāw and Whose goings forth [are] Conj-w | N-fpc | 3ms 6924 [e] מִקֶּ֖דֶם miq-qe-ḏem from of old Prep-m | N-ms 3117 [e] מִימֵ֥י mî-mê from Prep-m | N-mpc 5769 [e] עוֹלָֽם׃ ‘ō-w-lām. everlasting N-ms

Micah 5:4 proves Jesus isn't God.

Micah 5 (KJV)
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

 

[mikesw]

Micah 5:4 proves Jesus isn't God.

Micah 5 (KJV)
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

I see. Jesus has nothing to do with the LORD his God. I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. You somehow are saying that Jesus incarnate cannot function in the strength of the LORD. How many years to you study eisegesis?

 

[Runningman]

I see. Jesus has nothing to do with the LORD his God. I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. You somehow are saying that Jesus incarnate cannot function in the strength of the LORD. How many years to you study eisegesis?

God having a God is a logical inconsistency in Trinitarianism. Micah 5:4 says YHWH is his God. Same sort of issue exists for Trinitarianism in Hebrews 1:8,9.

The idea of God being both “One” and “multiple persons” presents a contradiction. Either God is truly One, indivisible in essence, or He consists of distinct persons. If God is divided internally into persons, that division contradicts the concept of true oneness, as even internal distinctions imply separateness. Unity in essence cannot allow for internal division without compromising the integrity of being one and undivided. Therefore, asserting both oneness and multiplicity within God leads to a logical inconsistency. Does that make better sense when it's worded like this?

 

[MTMattie]

It's still there in Micah 5:2 in the LXX.

καὶ σύ Βηθλεεμ οἶκος τοῦ Εφραθα ὀλιγοστὸς εἶ τοῦ εἶναι ἐν χιλιάσιν Ιουδα ἐκ σοῦ μοι ἐξελεύσεται τοῦ εἶναι εἰς ἄρχοντα ἐν τῷ Ισραηλ καὶ αἱ ἔξοδοι αὐτοῦ ἀπ᾽ἀρχῆς ἐξ ἡμερῶν αἰῶνος

Nothing has been debunked. Are you trying to debunk the existence of "ἀρχῆς" in Micah 5:2? It's irrefutable that it exists there. Honest translation of this word refers to the origin or beginning. So Jesus has a beginning point according to Micah 5:2 and "going forth" would be considered a spurious translation not supported by the body of Scripture as a whole or the language. For example, if Jesus pre-existed and was going forth we would expect to see that all of the Old Testament. There is zero, zip, zilch, nada about Jesus saying or doing anything in the Old Testament under any known name.

So at a pre-existence "as God" is completely out of the question. I am more of the mindset that since Jesus is a human then he most likely pre-existed in God's plan and foreknowledge, but not as a literal being. Remember, you're wanting to prove Jesus pre-existed yet you present an argument bankrupt of any proof because as far as Scripture goes it doesn't support your premise. It supports my premise.

That is because you simply cannot understand.

Why is that?

I honest;ly believe because you are not supposed to.

You are so afraid to believe what we do that it is blinding you... opr you are being blinded.

DO NOT FINISH THIS BUT TELL ME WHAT THE BEGINNING WAS............. In the BEGINNING WAS

 

[MTMattie]

Micah 5:4 proves Jesus isn't God.

Micah 5 (KJV)
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

Do you have any comprehension of who Jesus was?

Maybe your boss, Mrs. Runningman knows

 

[Runningman]

That is because you simply cannot understand.

Why is that?

I honest;ly believe because you are not supposed to.

You are so afraid to believe what we do that it is blinding you... opr you are being blinded.

DO NOT FINISH THIS BUT TELL ME WHAT THE BEGINNING WAS............. In the BEGINNING WAS

John 1:1 "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God."

Now go to Genesis 1:1. No sir, he's not there. Only YHWH is there.

1 John 1:1-3, that which was from the beginning, the Word of life, is called a thing.

No examples of Jesus doing anything in the Old Testament, but rather just prophecy. Prophecy exists in God's foreknowledge, yes?

Here's an example of how Jesus didn't literally pre-exist straight from the mouth of Jesus.

We know Jesus was not slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13
8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Runningman]

Do you have any comprehension of who Jesus was?

Maybe your boss, Mrs. Runningman knows

Had to laugh at this one. Yes of course I know who Jesus is. He's a man in heaven right now.

 

[mikesw]

God having a God is a logical inconsistency in Trinitarianism. Micah 5:4 says YHWH is his God. Same sort of issue exists for Trinitarianism in Hebrews 1:8,9.

The idea of God being both “One” and “multiple persons” presents a contradiction. Either God is truly One, indivisible in essence, or He consists of distinct persons. If God is divided internally into persons, that division contradicts the concept of true oneness, as even internal distinctions imply separateness. Unity in essence cannot allow for internal division without compromising the integrity of being one and undivided. Therefore, asserting both oneness and multiplicity within God leads to a logical inconsistency. Does that make better sense when it's worded like this?

You have not followed the arguments very well then. Johann share that the oneness in Deut 6:4 is not a numerical oneness. So either the Hebrew is wrong or you are. You are taking the misconceptions of the Jews and harboring them in your own mind. The oneness is marriage is to be a type of unity that reflects God's oneness. So you have to deny the act of marriage too.

 

[Runningman]

You have not followed the arguments very well then. Johann share that the oneness in Deut 6:4 is not a numerical oneness. So either the Hebrew is wrong or you are. You are taking the misconceptions of the Jews and harboring them in your own mind. The oneness is marriage is to be a type of unity that reflects God's oneness. So you have to deny the act of marriage too.

Deut 6:4 refers to YHWH being a single person. False dichotomy is "Hebrew is wrong or you are." This ignores the fact that you and @Johann are wrong.

Let's prove it using Scripture. God is the LORD and there is none else. Is this plain enough?


Isaiah 45
18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

 

[MTMattie]

John 1:1 "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God."

Now go to Genesis 1:1. No sir, he's not there. Only YHWH is there.

1 John 1:1-3, that which was from the beginning, the Word of life, is called a thing.

No examples of Jesus doing anything in the Old Testament, but rather just prophecy. Prophecy exists in God's foreknowledge, yes?

Here's an example of how Jesus didn't literally pre-exist straight from the mouth of Jesus.

We know Jesus was not slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13
8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

There you go jumping all over the place.

Not only dont you see... you dont read well. I said...... DO NOT FINISH THIS BUT TELL ME WHAT THE BEGINNING WAS............. In the BEGINNING WAS

You still have not said what the beginning was.... You assume the beginning was at Gen 1. I want the beginning of eternity........

Gen 1:1 It was when God created the heavens and the earth. NOT when Jesus came into being.... But you assume that means God was going it all alone.

WRONG
Gen 1:2 says 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
This was not God, it was His Spirit... The Holy Spirit to be exact.
IF IT WAS GOD it would have said God was moving over the]surface of the waters.
But it says the Spirit of God = 2 beings. You cannot find a single translation that says God, Himself was moving over the surface and the water.

I have no time right now to get into other replies to you but read this and then know this is my belief because it IS biblical provable. It is a bit choppy cause I dont have the time to clean it up... I just copied the way it came.

How Do God’s Words Create?

Explore the life-creating meaning of the Word of God in John 1 and throughout the Bible.

bibleproject.com

John opens his Gospel with a riddle. “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” What can we make of this? Why does John introduce Jesus as the Word of God?
Three important contexts influence John’s introduction.

1. God’s words create life in Genesis.
2. The books of Psalms and Proverbs further demonstrate the divine words and person from Genesis 1.
3. Jewish and Greek literature contemporary to John’s Gospel reveal a larger conversation about the complex nature of Yahweh’s identity as the divine word of creation.

John draws from all three of these sources in his opening words, and as we understand each source more, we can better understand the prologue of John 1:1-18
John 1:1-18

.

John 1 and Genesis 1​

Genesis 1:1
Genesis 1:1

says, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” How did he do it? As we continue reading, we learn that God said, “Let there be light.” From there, a divine act of speech introduces a new day of creation. And since the third and sixth days include three additional moments when God speaks, the phrase “God said” is repeated a total of 10 times to describe the creation of the cosmos. So what does this mean, and how does this help us understand John’s introduction?

Speech is a human act, requiring a physical body. The author of Genesis understands God as a purely spiritual being, though, and he still tells us that God “said” things. Describing God with human characteristics is an example of an “anthropomorphism,” which is when authors use human characteristics or descriptions to talk about non-human things or beings. This example from Genesis 1
Genesis 1

is the first anthropomorphism in the Bible, and John refers back to it in the opening of his Gospel. Somehow, God is using speech to create everything that has been made.

So let’s consider the significance of speech. God could have nodded, or blinked, or motioned with his hand, but instead he is described as speaking. Words express the mind, will, and character of a person. Words reveal identity. We can observe much about a person based on what we see, but we can’t begin to know them personally until they speak to us. When God created the universe, he spoke it into existence. “The Word became flesh” (John 1:14
John 1:14

).

Creation begins with God speaking, and then a new creation begins when this speaking “Word” of God becomes a human being in the flesh, the living and active person of Jesus. As John says, “In him was life, and that life was the light of humanity” (John 1:4
John 1:4

).

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​

The Word of God in Psalms and Proverbs​

While Genesis 1
Genesis 1
The Creation
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
6Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
9Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
14Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
20Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.” 21God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
24Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


introduces the divine person and creative speech of God, the books of Psalms and Proverbs explore this idea in greater depth. The key words and images of Genesis 1:1-3
Genesis 1:1-3

are hyperlinked in multiple places throughout Proverbs and Psalms.

John’s introduction of Jesus reflects a deep understanding of these passages and shows us how he interprets them. For example, a comparison of John 1:3
John 1:3

to Proverbs 3:19
Proverbs 3:19

, Proverbs 8:22-23
Proverbs 8:22-23
We are experiencing a temporary issue loading Bible content. Please try again later.

, Proverbs 8:30
Proverbs 8:30

, and Psalm 33:6
Psalms 33:6

can help us understand how John saw Jesus as the embodiment of wisdom. Before God’s word became human in Jesus, he was the wisdom who laid the foundations of the earth. He sets the heavens in place, fashions the stars, and actively lives at God’s side.

The Word of God in Jewish and Greek Literature​

John was not the only one who saw a divine figure behind the poetic hyperlinks to the creation account. Other ancient Jewish literature relied on a similar understanding. For example, early Aramaic translations and interpretations of Genesis 1:1
Genesis 1:1
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reveal that many understood the nature of Yahweh’s identity as the word of God.


From the beginning, by wisdom, the son of Yahweh completed the heavens and the earth.

or

From the beginning, by wisdom, the word of Yahweh created completed the heavens and the earth.

And the earth was waste and unformed, desolate of man and beast, empty of plant cultivation and of trees, and darkness was spread over the face of the abyss; and a spirit of mercy from before the Lord was blowing over the surface of the waters. And the word of the Lord said, “Let there be light,” and there was light according to the decree of his word.

The Aramaic Bible: Targum Neofiti 1: Genesis, trans. Martin McNamara, Vol. 1 (Collegeville, MN: The Liturgical Press, 1992), Genesis 1:1–3.
Additionally, ancient Greek philosophers understood the idea of “word” (Greek: logos ) as “the omnipresent wisdom by which all things are steered” and “the divine word received by the prophet, which becomes almost equivalent to God” (George R. Beasley-Murray, John, Volume 36, Word Biblical Commentary).
Ancient Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria provided the first synthesis of Jewish, biblical, and Greek philosophy. He identified the logos as a person and fused its understanding with the Hebrew Bible’s portrayal of Yahweh’s divine attributes.

John 1 and Hebrews​

John’s riddle-like introduction of Jesus is strange at first, but Genesis, Psalms, Proverbs, and other Jewish and Greek literature all provide insight into John’s meaning.
In Genesis, creation began with God creating life with his word. This beginning was good, but when God’s creatures reject his words of life, all of creation spirals into death. The world needs a new beginning, so God continues speaking his divine word again and again. This theme continues in Psalms and Proverbs, as God's words of wisdom are poetically continuing to shape all of existence, according to his own wisdom.
John recognized Jesus as the embodiment of this wisdom. Ancient Jewish and Greek literature also interacted with similar understandings about the identity of God and the nature of the cosmos. John weaves all these ideas into a stunning conclusion: the word at the beginning of life has now become human so we can see and know his life personally. We can now relate to the Word that shaped the universe. The Word is a person and he can reshape our lives.
The author of Hebrews further develops this idea.
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from his sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of him with whom we have to do.”
Hebrews 4:12-13

The Word of God in Our Lives​

The word of God became a person, living and active. He knows everything about us—not just because he created us but because he has become one of us. Look at the next verses in Hebrews 4
Hebrews 4

.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:14-16
The author of Hebrews shows us that the living and active word became a human who was tempted like we are and suffered like we do, so he can sympathize with our needs and weaknesses. Because of this, we are invited to keep our words aligned with his (Hebrews 4:14
Hebrews 4:14

). And since his words are gracious and true, we can be confident and come to him for everything we need (John 1:14
John 1:14
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Keep Reading
, Hebrews 4:15-16
Hebrews 4:15-16

). This is how the word of God can actively shape and recreate our lives.

Jesus is called the Word of God in John's Gospel because he is the human embodiment of the eternal word of God who created life at the beginning and is still actively initiating new creation life today. As we listen to Jesus’ words and let them shape and recreate us, we echo his creative words of life and participate in God’s mission to renew all of creation.

 

[Runningman]

There you go jumping all over the place.

Not only dont you see... you dont read well. I said...... DO NOT FINISH THIS BUT TELL ME WHAT THE BEGINNING WAS............. In the BEGINNING WAS

You still have not said what the beginning was.... You assume the beginning was at Gen 1. I want the beginning of eternity........

Gen 1:1 It was when God created the heavens and the earth. NOT when Jesus came into being.... But you assume that means God was going it all alone.

WRONG
Gen 1:2 says 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
This was not God, it was His Spirit... The Holy Spirit to be exact.
IF IT WAS GOD it would have said God was moving over the]surface of the waters.
But it says the Spirit of God = 2 beings. You cannot find a single translation that says God, Himself was moving over the surface and the water.

I have no time right now to get into other replies to you but read this and then know this is my belief because it IS biblical provable. It is a bit choppy cause I dont have the time to clean it up... I just copied the way it came.

How Do God’s Words Create?

Explore the life-creating meaning of the Word of God in John 1 and throughout the Bible.

bibleproject.com

We don't have many clear verses about what God was doing before creation, but He seems to exists somewhere (for lack of a better term) that exists outside of time and space and therefore was able to bring the "beginning" about and create the heavens (space) and earth by speaking.

The few glimpses we get at this, outside out drawing inference or deduction about things we couldn't possibly know, is that YHWH pre-existed creation with angels. That's it. Do you believe Jesus could have pre-existed as an angel? There is actually more suggestion for this than he pre-existing as God.

Job 38 (NIV)
1Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
2“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.
4“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

 

[TomL]

Moot point since the KJV's version of this verse isn't a literal translation, but rather more like an interpretation rather than a translation at all. Archē in the Greek Septuagint means beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point." Means Jesus was created.

Scriptural proof Jesus was created:

Revelation 3 (KJV)​

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;​

​

Micah 5 (NIV)​

2“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,​

though you are small among the clans a of Judah,​

out of you will come for me​

one who will be ruler over Israel,​

whose origins are from of old,​

from ancient times.”​

sorry you stop before the end

The ending proves his pre-existence which you deny; so your belief there is refuted

 

[TomL]

It's still there in Micah 5:2 in the LXX.

καὶ σύ Βηθλεεμ οἶκος τοῦ Εφραθα ὀλιγοστὸς εἶ τοῦ εἶναι ἐν χιλιάσιν Ιουδα ἐκ σοῦ μοι ἐξελεύσεται τοῦ εἶναι εἰς ἄρχοντα ἐν τῷ Ισραηλ καὶ αἱ ἔξοδοι αὐτοῦ ἀπ᾽ἀρχῆς ἐξ ἡμερῶν αἰῶνος

Nothing has been debunked. Are you trying to debunk the existence of "ἀρχῆς" in Micah 5:2? It's irrefutable that it exists there. Honest translation of this word refers to the origin or beginning. So Jesus has a beginning point according to Micah 5:2 and "going forth" would be considered a spurious translation not supported by the body of Scripture as a whole or the language. For example, if Jesus pre-existed and was going forth we would expect to see that all of the Old Testament. There is zero, zip, zilch, nada about Jesus saying or doing anything in the Old Testament under any known name.

So at a pre-existence "as God" is completely out of the question. I am more of the mindset that since Jesus is a human then he most likely pre-existed in God's plan and foreknowledge, but not as a literal being. Remember, you're wanting to prove Jesus pre-existed yet you present an argument bankrupt of any proof because as far as Scripture goes it doesn't support your premise. It supports my premise.

Actually

ἐξ ἡμερῶν αἰῶνος

proves he pre-existed

 

[MTMattie]

We don't have many clear verses about what God was doing before creation, but He seems to exists somewhere (for lack of a better term) that exists outside of time and space and therefore was able to bring the "beginning" about and create the heavens (space) and earth by speaking.

The few glimpses we get at this, outside out drawing inference or deduction about things we couldn't possibly know, is that YHWH pre-existed creation with angels. That's it. Do you believe Jesus could have pre-existed as an angel? There is actually more suggestion for this than he pre-existing as God.

Job 38 (NIV)
1Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
2“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.
4“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

Allow me to ask you a question as idiotic as yours about Jesus potentially having been an angel.

Why would a dove be used to impregnate Mary with an angel?

 

[Runningman]

sorry you stop before the end

The ending proves his pre-existence which you deny; so your belief there is refuted

Pre-existence as who or what?

 

[civic]

The Septuagint translates with aionios also used to denote eternal duration.

Yep

 

[civic]

Pre-existence as who or what?

a what does not pre exist creation that can only be a who.

 

[Runningman]

Actually

ἐξ ἡμερῶν αἰῶνος

proves he pre-existed

Calling that a proof isn't a proof. Look at it this way. If you walked into a court with some words on a paper that say something and then you couldn't provide any eyewitness testimony, evidence, or proof of said person doing anything then that wouldn't be proof and it wouldn't go anywhere.

In the Bible we have something called prophecy. The prophesied Messiah is required to be a human or else you risk strange ideas like God having sin applied to Him and dying. It might be blasphemy to call Jesus God for some of these same reasons.

So let's ask you a pointed question.

Do you believe God became sin and died?

2 Corinthians 5 (NIV)
21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Runningman]

a what does not pre exist creation that can only be a who.

The Messiah is a who and he didn't exist until after his birth. Do you agree with that?