Jesus the Man Before John !

brightfame52 said:
Not only was Christ Jesus the Man before John the Baptist Jn 1:30

This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

But He was the OT figure the Angel of the Lord as well as Michael the Great Prince Dan 12:1

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

I also believe that the Angel here is Christ, Michael the Arch Angel Rev 10:1-6

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: See Vision of Christ here Matt 17:2

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

I believe, the Lord Jesus Christ, Michael and the Angel of the Covenant are the Same Judges 2:1

And an angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

The Messenger of the Covenant Mal 3:1

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

I believe this Angel is Michael, Christ Gen 48:16

The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

No ordinary Angel could do this, redeem a man from all Evil, Gill writes :



I believe Jacob had an Eye to the Death of the Messiah whom Paul writes Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 2
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wow now you claim Christ is Michael the arch angel, a created being. this is a jehovah witness belief. yikes
 
More on Christ as Michael the ArchAngel !


The Lord Jesus Christ is none other than Michael the Archangel, The Lord/Prince of all the Angels of God,who by the way [The Angels of God] were Created for the Redemptive Purpose in Christ as indicated Heb 1:13-14

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

And no other Angel but Michael, the Chief of them could execute what happens to satan in Rev 12:7-9

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And its also Christ/ Michael here when the Angel did this Rev 20:1-2

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

That Angel was Christ that bound satan, the strong man ! Matt 12:29

Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mk 3:27

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

The word bind in both Matt 12:29 and Mk 3:27 is the same exact word bound in Rev 20:2 ! Thats because its Christ by His work of the Cross binding the strong man satan and that is what is happening in Rev 12:7-9 !
 
brightfame52 said:
That the Lord Jesus Christ was a Man before the incarnation and birth out of the virgin Mary, is seen when we carefully weigh the words of John the Baptist here Jn 1:29-31

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

Now notice in Vs 30 the phrase "After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me."

The object here is a man, and John states these 3 things about this particular man, That this man comes after him, and is preferred before him, and he [the man] was before him !

Now we know from other scripture that John the Baptist in regards to his physical birth by his Mother, that he is six months older than Jesus and so , in that regard John is not speaking of. Lk 1:34-36

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

But John does acknowledge that Jesus Christ was a Man before Him.

In fact, when John said the he was preferred before him, that word is the greek word ginomai and means:

I.
to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

II.
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

John knew that The Man Jesus Christ was that Man of God's Right Hand, the Son of Man Ps 80:17

17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.

Also in connection with that, John knew that Christ, the Man coming as a Bridegroom for His Bride Jn 3:29

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Now Jesus was the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator between God and Men before the foundation 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Now for this to be True, Adam , who was the beginning of Men, had to have the Man Christ Jesus as the Mediator between God and Men !
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Yet another biblical error

Before the incarnation, the Word was not a man and all the verses you reference concern Christ after the incarnation
 
brightfame52 said:
More on Christ as Michael the ArchAngel !


The Lord Jesus Christ is none other than Michael the Archangel, The Lord/Prince of all the Angels of God,who by the way [The Angels of God] were Created for the Redemptive Purpose in Christ as indicated Heb 1:13-14

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

And no other Angel but Michael, the Chief of them could execute what happens to satan in Rev 12:7-9

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And its also Christ/ Michael here when the Angel did this Rev 20:1-2

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

That Angel was Christ that bound satan, the strong man ! Matt 12:29

Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mk 3:27

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

The word bind in both Matt 12:29 and Mk 3:27 is the same exact word bound in Rev 20:2 ! Thats because its Christ by His work of the Cross binding the strong man satan and that is what is happening in Rev 12:7-9 !
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You just denied Christianity
 
TomL said:
Yet another biblical error

Before the incarnation, the Word was not a man and all the verses you reference concern Christ after the incarnation
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He was the Man from Heaven 1 Cor 15 47

The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
 
The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100%man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect”if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.
 
Peterlag said:
The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100%man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect”if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.
Click to expand...
Scripture is wrong?

Your authority is?
 

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