Runningman
Active Member
There aren't any. Thus, I have no burden of proof to perform the lifelong uphill fight that you have chosen. If you have proof, put it up or I'll assume you have lost your argument.
Jesus Christ is the wisdom and creation of God
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
Your ignorance of the verses of the Trinitarian evidence make you unable to develop an argument against it. You have just disqualified yourself from discussions. You can use your ignorance to make assumptions, but you are the one trying to convince people to accept a heretical view so the proofs need to come from you.
DavidTree
Active Member
Runningman
Active Member
Proving the trinity is your job. So far you are doing a lot of talking and not a lot of doing.
whatever. You can keep ranting about your theory but it is useless since you cannot make a case for your belief.
If you are not here to defend your belief system against what scripture reveals, you are just amusing yourself.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Yikes. Another one who cuts off scriptures to make a seeming point that is pointless.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He (Word) was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him (Word) all things were made, and without Him (Word) nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him (Word)was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@Runningman ,
Who has proof that there is no Trinity?
Where is it written that is is false?
The are plenty of scriptures all over these threads that point to the 3. There are plenty of discussions about them.
Surly you can give us 1 single verse that says it is a false idea.
Maybe someone told someone to not baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Oh that's right. That is not Trinity proof.
So, if that be the case... what are people baptized for and by what authority would the Holy Spirit be included in the command?
We agree that God has all authority, do we not?
We also agree that Jesus was given some authority, no matter how you view it. Actually it is more then you are willing to admit or accept.
Now it was Jesus who said
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
So.... Not that they listened to Him, but the command went out inclusive of the Holy Spirit.. and I want to know why He is in there, especially if He is not in the trinity.
What did Jesus know that His disciples didn't when
A few days later, the apostles are equipped with the Holy Spirit and begin preaching the gospel. When the audience asks, “What shall we do?” in Acts 2:37, Peter says, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (v. 38).
Wait a minute. I thought they were supposed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet now Peter says baptism should be done in the name of Jesus Christ just a few days later. Are he and the rest of the apostles disobeying the Lord? Not only does this happen in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, but Peter also commands Cornelius’ household in Acts 10 “to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (v. 48). And again, after the apostle Paul teaches a dozen guys in Ephesus about baptism in Acts 19, Luke tells us: “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus” (v. 5).
Are the apostles now ignoring Jesus’ commandment? What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
Well, allow me to help you out by providing the rest of the story here... done far better then I ever could.
No, and none.
First, let’s briefly see what it means to do something in someone’s name. In Acts 4:7, the council is questioning how the apostles were able to perform miracles. They ask, “By what power or by what name have you done this?” To do something in someone’s name means to do it with their power, authority, or permission. (Yes, this is foreshadowing the answer to question #2.) A police officer may say, “Open up in the name of the law!” No, he’s not claiming the law has a name. He is claiming to act with the authority of the law. He himself is not the law; but his words that are uttered “in the name of the law” become law. It’s not by his authority, but by the law’s authority.
In the same way, when Jesus sent His disciples to perform miracles or baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, He was giving them God’s authority to baptize. They had no power or authority in themselves. The power came from their sender Himself.
The most famous iteration of the Great Commission is Matthew 28 where Jesus says baptism is in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, in Luke’s account, Jesus says that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).
According to Jesus Himself, there is one shared authority (“name”) among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.<a href="https://topicalbiblestudies.com/whi...-spirit/#49456b93-fc66-4d12-bec5-ec7fcdcf3e16">1</a> Jesus is one with the Father (see John 10:30). The Holy Spirit never taught or directed anything against the Father’s or Jesus’ will. So to do something by the Father’s authority, the Son’s authority, and/or the Holy Spirit’s authority, you are doing it by God’s authority—in God’s name.
Before Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28, Jesus told them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (v. 18). How does that work out? To prepare them for His departure, Jesus had told the same men:
So, if baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the same thing as baptism in the name of Jesus, what should the baptizer say at the baptism? What formula of words should be used?
topicalbiblestudies.com
Surly @Runningman you could see this and understand why we believe in the Trinity, using just this one example.
So Ill wait for your scripture proof that actually denies.....it.
Who has proof that there is no Trinity?
Where is it written that is is false?
The are plenty of scriptures all over these threads that point to the 3. There are plenty of discussions about them.
Surly you can give us 1 single verse that says it is a false idea.
Maybe someone told someone to not baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Oh that's right. That is not Trinity proof.
So, if that be the case... what are people baptized for and by what authority would the Holy Spirit be included in the command?
We agree that God has all authority, do we not?
We also agree that Jesus was given some authority, no matter how you view it. Actually it is more then you are willing to admit or accept.
Now it was Jesus who said
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
So.... Not that they listened to Him, but the command went out inclusive of the Holy Spirit.. and I want to know why He is in there, especially if He is not in the trinity.
What did Jesus know that His disciples didn't when
A few days later, the apostles are equipped with the Holy Spirit and begin preaching the gospel. When the audience asks, “What shall we do?” in Acts 2:37, Peter says, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (v. 38).
Wait a minute. I thought they were supposed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet now Peter says baptism should be done in the name of Jesus Christ just a few days later. Are he and the rest of the apostles disobeying the Lord? Not only does this happen in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, but Peter also commands Cornelius’ household in Acts 10 “to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (v. 48). And again, after the apostle Paul teaches a dozen guys in Ephesus about baptism in Acts 19, Luke tells us: “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus” (v. 5).
Are the apostles now ignoring Jesus’ commandment? What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
Well, allow me to help you out by providing the rest of the story here... done far better then I ever could.
No, and none.
First, let’s briefly see what it means to do something in someone’s name. In Acts 4:7, the council is questioning how the apostles were able to perform miracles. They ask, “By what power or by what name have you done this?” To do something in someone’s name means to do it with their power, authority, or permission. (Yes, this is foreshadowing the answer to question #2.) A police officer may say, “Open up in the name of the law!” No, he’s not claiming the law has a name. He is claiming to act with the authority of the law. He himself is not the law; but his words that are uttered “in the name of the law” become law. It’s not by his authority, but by the law’s authority.
In the same way, when Jesus sent His disciples to perform miracles or baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, He was giving them God’s authority to baptize. They had no power or authority in themselves. The power came from their sender Himself.
The most famous iteration of the Great Commission is Matthew 28 where Jesus says baptism is in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, in Luke’s account, Jesus says that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).
According to Jesus Himself, there is one shared authority (“name”) among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.<a href="https://topicalbiblestudies.com/whi...-spirit/#49456b93-fc66-4d12-bec5-ec7fcdcf3e16">1</a> Jesus is one with the Father (see John 10:30). The Holy Spirit never taught or directed anything against the Father’s or Jesus’ will. So to do something by the Father’s authority, the Son’s authority, and/or the Holy Spirit’s authority, you are doing it by God’s authority—in God’s name.
Before Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28, Jesus told them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (v. 18). How does that work out? To prepare them for His departure, Jesus had told the same men:
When the Holy Spirit worked through the apostles, He did so by the authority of Jesus, who further explained:
So to believe baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is different from baptism in the name of Jesus is to commit the same fallacy of believing the red letters of the Bible are more valuable than the black ones (which we have a study on too).
So, if baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the same thing as baptism in the name of Jesus, what should the baptizer say at the baptism? What formula of words should be used?
- In Matthew 28:19, Jesus uses the definite article (“the”) three times—the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Although all three are distinct, Jesus mentions only the singular name. ↩︎
Which is it? Baptism in Jesus’ name OR the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit?
Three major questions about baptism: 1. Is there a difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus? 2. Is it import…
topicalbiblestudies.com
Surly @Runningman you could see this and understand why we believe in the Trinity, using just this one example.
So Ill wait for your scripture proof that actually denies.....it.
Runningman
Active Member
The "Him" in John 1:3 refers to the closest noun, which is "God" in John 1:2. So the God the Word was with is the Creator, not the Word.
Runningman
Active Member
Sure. The one God is explicitly defined as the Father, Jesus is distinguished from the one God as the one Lord, and the holy Spirit is not mentioned at all. Paul didn't even hint at a triune relationship anywhere.@Runningman ,
Who has proof that there is no Trinity?
Where is it written that is is false?
The are plenty of scriptures all over these threads that point to the 3. There are plenty of discussions about them.
Surly you can give us 1 single verse that says it is a false idea.
Maybe someone told someone to not baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Oh that's right. That is not Trinity proof.
So, if that be the case... what are people baptized for and by what authority would the Holy Spirit be included in the command?
We agree that God has all authority, do we not?
We also agree that Jesus was given some authority, no matter how you view it. Actually it is more then you are willing to admit or accept.
Now it was Jesus who said
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
So.... Not that they listened to Him, but the command went out inclusive of the Holy Spirit.. and I want to know why He is in there, especially if He is not in the trinity.
What did Jesus know that His disciples didn't when
A few days later, the apostles are equipped with the Holy Spirit and begin preaching the gospel. When the audience asks, “What shall we do?” in Acts 2:37, Peter says, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (v. 38).
Wait a minute. I thought they were supposed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet now Peter says baptism should be done in the name of Jesus Christ just a few days later. Are he and the rest of the apostles disobeying the Lord? Not only does this happen in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, but Peter also commands Cornelius’ household in Acts 10 “to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (v. 48). And again, after the apostle Paul teaches a dozen guys in Ephesus about baptism in Acts 19, Luke tells us: “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus” (v. 5).
Are the apostles now ignoring Jesus’ commandment? What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
Well, allow me to help you out by providing the rest of the story here... done far better then I ever could.
No, and none.
First, let’s briefly see what it means to do something in someone’s name. In Acts 4:7, the council is questioning how the apostles were able to perform miracles. They ask, “By what power or by what name have you done this?” To do something in someone’s name means to do it with their power, authority, or permission. (Yes, this is foreshadowing the answer to question #2.) A police officer may say, “Open up in the name of the law!” No, he’s not claiming the law has a name. He is claiming to act with the authority of the law. He himself is not the law; but his words that are uttered “in the name of the law” become law. It’s not by his authority, but by the law’s authority.
In the same way, when Jesus sent His disciples to perform miracles or baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, He was giving them God’s authority to baptize. They had no power or authority in themselves. The power came from their sender Himself.
The most famous iteration of the Great Commission is Matthew 28 where Jesus says baptism is in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, in Luke’s account, Jesus says that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).
According to Jesus Himself, there is one shared authority (“name”) among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.<a href="https://topicalbiblestudies.com/whi...-spirit/#49456b93-fc66-4d12-bec5-ec7fcdcf3e16">1</a> Jesus is one with the Father (see John 10:30). The Holy Spirit never taught or directed anything against the Father’s or Jesus’ will. So to do something by the Father’s authority, the Son’s authority, and/or the Holy Spirit’s authority, you are doing it by God’s authority—in God’s name.
Before Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28, Jesus told them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (v. 18). How does that work out? To prepare them for His departure, Jesus had told the same men:
When the Holy Spirit worked through the apostles, He did so by the authority of Jesus, who further explained:
So to believe baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is different from baptism in the name of Jesus is to commit the same fallacy of believing the red letters of the Bible are more valuable than the black ones (which we have a study on too).
So, if baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the same thing as baptism in the name of Jesus, what should the baptizer say at the baptism? What formula of words should be used?
- In Matthew 28:19, Jesus uses the definite article (“the”) three times—the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Although all three are distinct, Jesus mentions only the singular name. ↩︎
Which is it? Baptism in Jesus’ name OR the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit?
Three major questions about baptism: 1. Is there a difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus? 2. Is it import…
Surly @Runningman you could see this and understand why we believe in the Trinity, using just this one example.
So Ill wait for your scripture proof that actually denies.....it.
1 Cor. 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.
synergy
Active Member
In all languages, pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent. The primary subject is established as the Word in verse 1. All pronouns in verses 2-5 point back to the Word. Proof of that is how the pronoun in verse 2 points back to the Word.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
DavidTree
Active Member
Something to dwell on = Lord Jesus Christ has all THREE in the Name above all names@Runningman ,
Who has proof that there is no Trinity?
Where is it written that is is false?
The are plenty of scriptures all over these threads that point to the 3. There are plenty of discussions about them.
Surly you can give us 1 single verse that says it is a false idea.
Maybe someone told someone to not baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Oh that's right. That is not Trinity proof.
So, if that be the case... what are people baptized for and by what authority would the Holy Spirit be included in the command?
We agree that God has all authority, do we not?
We also agree that Jesus was given some authority, no matter how you view it. Actually it is more then you are willing to admit or accept.
Now it was Jesus who said
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
So.... Not that they listened to Him, but the command went out inclusive of the Holy Spirit.. and I want to know why He is in there, especially if He is not in the trinity.
What did Jesus know that His disciples didn't when
A few days later, the apostles are equipped with the Holy Spirit and begin preaching the gospel. When the audience asks, “What shall we do?” in Acts 2:37, Peter says, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (v. 38).
Wait a minute. I thought they were supposed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet now Peter says baptism should be done in the name of Jesus Christ just a few days later. Are he and the rest of the apostles disobeying the Lord? Not only does this happen in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, but Peter also commands Cornelius’ household in Acts 10 “to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (v. 48). And again, after the apostle Paul teaches a dozen guys in Ephesus about baptism in Acts 19, Luke tells us: “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus” (v. 5).
Are the apostles now ignoring Jesus’ commandment? What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
Well, allow me to help you out by providing the rest of the story here... done far better then I ever could.
No, and none.
First, let’s briefly see what it means to do something in someone’s name. In Acts 4:7, the council is questioning how the apostles were able to perform miracles. They ask, “By what power or by what name have you done this?” To do something in someone’s name means to do it with their power, authority, or permission. (Yes, this is foreshadowing the answer to question #2.) A police officer may say, “Open up in the name of the law!” No, he’s not claiming the law has a name. He is claiming to act with the authority of the law. He himself is not the law; but his words that are uttered “in the name of the law” become law. It’s not by his authority, but by the law’s authority.
In the same way, when Jesus sent His disciples to perform miracles or baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, He was giving them God’s authority to baptize. They had no power or authority in themselves. The power came from their sender Himself.
The most famous iteration of the Great Commission is Matthew 28 where Jesus says baptism is in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, in Luke’s account, Jesus says that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).
According to Jesus Himself, there is one shared authority (“name”) among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.<a href="https://topicalbiblestudies.com/whi...-spirit/#49456b93-fc66-4d12-bec5-ec7fcdcf3e16">1</a> Jesus is one with the Father (see John 10:30). The Holy Spirit never taught or directed anything against the Father’s or Jesus’ will. So to do something by the Father’s authority, the Son’s authority, and/or the Holy Spirit’s authority, you are doing it by God’s authority—in God’s name.
Before Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28, Jesus told them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (v. 18). How does that work out? To prepare them for His departure, Jesus had told the same men:
When the Holy Spirit worked through the apostles, He did so by the authority of Jesus, who further explained:
So to believe baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is different from baptism in the name of Jesus is to commit the same fallacy of believing the red letters of the Bible are more valuable than the black ones (which we have a study on too).
So, if baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the same thing as baptism in the name of Jesus, what should the baptizer say at the baptism? What formula of words should be used?
- In Matthew 28:19, Jesus uses the definite article (“the”) three times—the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Although all three are distinct, Jesus mentions only the singular name. ↩︎
Which is it? Baptism in Jesus’ name OR the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit?
Three major questions about baptism: 1. Is there a difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus? 2. Is it import…
Surly @Runningman you could see this and understand why we believe in the Trinity, using just this one example.
So Ill wait for your scripture proof that actually denies.....it.
Everyone overlooks this = I have revealed Your Name to those You have given Me out of the world.
Get the Picture???
Runningman
Active Member
In the context, the Word is not The God. In Christianity, The God is the Creator, not someone else. The "Him" in John 1:3 refers to the closest noun, which is once again "The God" in John 1:2. So The God the Word was with is the Creator, not the Word.
synergy
Active Member
More Modalism Strawmen from you. You must be a Closet Modalist to keep bringing up that strawman.
You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent. The primary subject is established as the Word in verse 1. All pronouns in verses 2-5 point back to the Word. Proof of that is how the pronoun in verse 2 points back to the Word.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Hmmm.
But he did talk of the Holy Spirit earlier in 2:4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Then 1 Cor 2: 10-12
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For the Spirit searches God shows the Spirit is separate from God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Further proof the Spirit is separate from God.
I hope you will take the time to read the following article. I texplaines the Holy Spirit in ways you may not be aware of.
Each in the Trinity has His own role. His own work, if you will.
From the Article: God the Father is the planner, God the Son is the executor of the plan, and God the Holy Spirit is the revealer of the plan.
Holy Spirit: What does the apostle Paul tell us about Him? – 4us2us Ministries
4us2usministries.com
Holy Spirit: What does the apostle Paul tell us about Him?
Gary Googe Apr 02
You’ll notice I said Him. He, the Holy Spirit, is not an It or some mystical force. That’s because the Holy Spirit is a Person. God is one in essence but three in personality. This is why we speak of God as a trinity. There’s God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. This means any one of these is just as much God as the other two. They all serve a purpose in our lives. As I heard it said many years ago, God the Father is the planner, God the Son is the executor of the plan, and God the Holy Spirit is the revealer of the plan. That might be thought to be an oversimplification of the matter, but it is correct, generally speaking.
You may wonder why I’m only covering what the apostle Paul has to say about Him. That’s because there were certain things God did in the past that He does not do today. There’s a lot of confusion and false teaching going on about this today. I think its most important that we get familiar with what His work really is in our lives today. Therefore, I will speak only of those things the apostle Paul mentions in his thirteen writings, for we are told in Scripture that it is he who is OUR apostle. We have no apostles today, only teachers. Some are good and some are not.
Romans 11:13
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: [Emphasis added]But even in Paul’s writings there are some things that were for the period in which this present Dispensation of Grace was coming into being but are not operative today. Because this fact is often denied, it is the source of a lot of confusion and division in the church of today. For instance, there was a time when the Holy Spirit enabled people to miraculously speak in foreign languages [or tongues] they’d never been trained to speak. He also enabled people to miraculously heal people. Contrary to what some claim, He doesn’t do either of these today. You’ll find entire articles I’ve written about each of these subjects on this website— Tongues: Do people “speak in tongues” today? and Healing: Can we expect God to heal today? I hope at some point you’ll read them both. They have proved to be quite enlightening to a lot of people.
Before we look at the apostle Paul’s statements about the Holy Spirit, I want to restate and emphasize the fact that the Holy Spirit IS as much God as Jesus and the Father. A good place to look for proof of that in Scripture is an incident that is recorded in the first part of the books of Acts. It is there that we find that the believers at that time had pooled all their money and had a common treasury.
Acts 2:44-47
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. [Emphasis added]
This and other related passages have always posed a serious and insurmountable problem for all those who believe the church of today began on the Day of Pentecost of Acts 2. First, we find that they added to the church, indicating that the church of that time already existed prior to the Day of Pentecost. You can’t add to something that doesn’t exist. Secondly, we see that God’s people are selling all their possessions and pooling all their money in a common treasury. Is that a part of God’s will for us today? No, it is not! Then later we see what happened to a man and his wife who violated this second principle.
Acts 5:1-5
1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. [Emphasis added]
Here the terms “Holy Ghost” and “God” are used interchangeably which clearly shows us they are both God.
So, what is the ministry of God the Holy Spirit in our lives today? Here’s a list of things we find that our apostle, the apostle Paul, gives us. I’m not listing them in any particular order. All of these are stated in conjunction with Paul’s teaching. None are in violation of it. In other words, the Spirit of God never does things or directs people today in ways that conflict with the teachings given in Paul’s writings.
He indwells us.
1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? [Emphasis added]2 Timothy 1:14
14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. [Emphasis added]He works to lead us.
He can be grieved [saddened] by us because of our disobedience to God’s Word.
He can be blasphemed [slandered] by us even as heaven-bound believers.
He speaks to us through the teachings of the Scriptures.
He teaches us as we study the Scriptures.
He reveals to us many wonderful things He wants us to know.
I don’t think I can say it enough that God the Holy Spirit never does any of these things independently of the written Word because we are told that all Scripture is God-breathed.
In the day when nearly all these Scriptures were written, God had not yet completed His revelation. But today, that’s not the case. Now everything God wants us to know in principle has been given to us through the writings of Scripture.
Many years ago I noticed the similarity of Ephesians 5:18 and Colossians 3:16. That was a great day in my life. Let’s look at those verses. If you read down through, noticing the context of these two passages, you’ll see that they’re similar. But let’s just look at these two verses for now.
I think we all know what it means to be driving under the influence of the spirits of alcohol. However, this passage is talking about living under the influence of the Spirit of God. Now let’s look at the other passage that has a similar context.
These passages are telling us that to be filled with the Spirit is to be richly influenced by the Word of Christ. Therefore, if you want Him to lead you, direct you, speak to you, reveal to you, or teach you, and more you must make the study of His words of revelation in Scripture a priority. The same may be related to these other things I’ll now list that He does for us.
He assures us that we are children of God.
He intercedes for us in our prayers to God our Father.
Conclusion—
We all need to know that the Holy Spirit is a real Person in our lives. He lives within us to help us with many things. But if we’re to get the benefits of blessing from that, we’re to make the learning of God’s Word from Scripture the main priority in our life day to day. Otherwise, we fall prey to living our lives in the same manner as unbelievers. The world of people around us will see us for who we really are—ignorant Christians. This ignorance of the Word of God can not only bring us much harm but cause us to miss out on many things we could have enjoyed as believers living out our lives here in service to the God who loves and cares for us like no one else. I hope you’ll give thanks to Him for all this that He’s provided for you and work to live a life that expresses only thanksgiving as you seek to faithfully serve Him.For more information about the Holy Spirit, here are the links to some other articles about Him on this website–
Holy Spirit: Must hands be laid on people to receive Him?
Holy Spirit: Can you lose Him?
Holy Spirit: Does He really indwell all believers today?
Holy Spirit: What is His role in our life today?
Holy Spirit: What does it mean to be filled with the Spirit?
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Is the Holy Spirit God?
AnswerThe short answer to this question is, yes, the Holy Spirit as described in the Bible is fully God. Along with God the Father and God the Son (Jesus Christ), God the Spirit is the third member of the Godhead or the Trinity.
Those who challenge the idea that the Holy Spirit is God suggest that the Holy Spirit may simply be an impersonal force of some kind, a source of power controlled by God but not fully a person Himself. Others suggest that perhaps the Holy Spirit is just another name for Jesus, in spirit form, apart from His body.
These ideas do not line up with what the Bible actually says about the Holy Spirit, though. The Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a person who has been present with the Father and the Son since before time began. The Spirit is integral to all of the things that God is described as doing in the Bible.
The Spirit of God was present at and involved in creation (Genesis 1:2; Psalm 33:6). The Holy Spirit moved the prophets of God with the words of God (2 Peter 1:21). The bodies of those in Christ are described as temples of God because the Holy Spirit is in us (1 Corinthians 6:19). Jesus was clear that to be “born again,” to become a Christian, one must be born “of the Spirit” (John 3:5).
One of the most convincing statements in the Bible about the Holy Spirit being God is found in Acts 5. When Ananias lied about the price of a piece of property, Peter said that Satan had filled Ananias’s heart to “lie to the Holy Spirit” (Acts 5:3) and concluded by saying that Ananias had “lied to God” (verse 4). Peter reveals that the Holy Spirit is God. Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.
Jesus told His disciples that the Holy Spirit, the Helper, was different from Himself. The Father would send the Helper, the Spirit of truth, after Christ departed. The Spirit would speak through the disciples about Jesus (John 14:25–26; 15:26–27; 16:7–15). All three Persons Jesus mentions—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—are God while being distinct from each other within the Trinity.
The three members of the Trinity show up, together yet distinct, at Jesus’ baptism. As Jesus comes up from the water, the Spirit descends on Him like a dove while the voice of the Father is heard from heaven saying that He is pleased with His beloved Son (Mark 1:10–11).
Finally, the Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a person, not a mere force. He can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). He has a will (1 Corinthians 12:4-7). He uses His mind to search the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10). And He has fellowship with believers (2 Corinthians 13:14). Clearly, the Spirit is a person, just as the Father and the Son are persons.
Indeed, the Bible is unequivocal that the Holy Spirit is, in fact, God, just as Jesus Christ and the Father are God.
And this is the opinion of a solidly Predestination believing source. Got Questions
Runningman
Active Member
John didn't say anything about modalism. He talked about The God (the Father) being the Creator. Wow, you don't believe The definitive God is the Creator?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
And neither did John....
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He( THE WORD) was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him,(THE WORD) and without Him (THE WORD) nothing was made that was made.
John never said one thing about the Father being the creator. HE SAID THE WORD... WHO WAS GOD... WAS THE CREATOR.
Runningman
Active Member
The idea that the holy Spirit is a third person in a Trinity was not a widely-held belief until the late 4th century at the council of Constantinople. That's the time they decided to make it the standard in the Catholic church. It isn't something that anyone originally believed. What is considered orthodox in the Trinitarian church wasn't developed until the 4th century. None of the earlier proto-Trinitarians of the preceding centuries believed in what is considered orthodox Trinitarianism today. Most of them were subordinationists, meaning they believed that Jesus was not co-equal nor co-eternal with God and many didn't believe the holy Spirit is a third person.Hmmm.
But he did talk of the Holy Spirit earlier in 2:4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Then 1 Cor 2: 10-12
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For the Spirit searches God shows the Spirit is separate from God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Further proof the Spirit is separate from God.
I hope you will take the time to read the following article. I texplaines the Holy Spirit in ways you may not be aware of.
Each in the Trinity has His own role. His own work, if you will.
From the Article: God the Father is the planner, God the Son is the executor of the plan, and God the Holy Spirit is the revealer of the plan.
Holy Spirit: What does the apostle Paul tell us about Him? – 4us2us Ministries
Holy Spirit: What does the apostle Paul tell us about Him?
Gary Googe Apr 02
You’ll notice I said Him. He, the Holy Spirit, is not an It or some mystical force. That’s because the Holy Spirit is a Person. God is one in essence but three in personality. This is why we speak of God as a trinity. There’s God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. This means any one of these is just as much God as the other two. They all serve a purpose in our lives. As I heard it said many years ago, God the Father is the planner, God the Son is the executor of the plan, and God the Holy Spirit is the revealer of the plan. That might be thought to be an oversimplification of the matter, but it is correct, generally speaking.
You may wonder why I’m only covering what the apostle Paul has to say about Him. That’s because there were certain things God did in the past that He does not do today. There’s a lot of confusion and false teaching going on about this today. I think its most important that we get familiar with what His work really is in our lives today. Therefore, I will speak only of those things the apostle Paul mentions in his thirteen writings, for we are told in Scripture that it is he who is OUR apostle. We have no apostles today, only teachers. Some are good and some are not.
Romans 11:13
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: [Emphasis added]
But even in Paul’s writings there are some things that were for the period in which this present Dispensation of Grace was coming into being but are not operative today. Because this fact is often denied, it is the source of a lot of confusion and division in the church of today. For instance, there was a time when the Holy Spirit enabled people to miraculously speak in foreign languages [or tongues] they’d never been trained to speak. He also enabled people to miraculously heal people. Contrary to what some claim, He doesn’t do either of these today. You’ll find entire articles I’ve written about each of these subjects on this website— Tongues: Do people “speak in tongues” today? and Healing: Can we expect God to heal today? I hope at some point you’ll read them both. They have proved to be quite enlightening to a lot of people.
Before we look at the apostle Paul’s statements about the Holy Spirit, I want to restate and emphasize the fact that the Holy Spirit IS as much God as Jesus and the Father. A good place to look for proof of that in Scripture is an incident that is recorded in the first part of the books of Acts. It is there that we find that the believers at that time had pooled all their money and had a common treasury.
Acts 2:44-47
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. [Emphasis added]
This and other related passages have always posed a serious and insurmountable problem for all those who believe the church of today began on the Day of Pentecost of Acts 2. First, we find that they added to the church, indicating that the church of that time already existed prior to the Day of Pentecost. You can’t add to something that doesn’t exist. Secondly, we see that God’s people are selling all their possessions and pooling all their money in a common treasury. Is that a part of God’s will for us today? No, it is not! Then later we see what happened to a man and his wife who violated this second principle.
Acts 5:1-5
1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. [Emphasis added]
Here the terms “Holy Ghost” and “God” are used interchangeably which clearly shows us they are both God.
So, what is the ministry of God the Holy Spirit in our lives today? Here’s a list of things we find that our apostle, the apostle Paul, gives us. I’m not listing them in any particular order. All of these are stated in conjunction with Paul’s teaching. None are in violation of it. In other words, the Spirit of God never does things or directs people today in ways that conflict with the teachings given in Paul’s writings.
He indwells us.
1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? [Emphasis added]
2 Timothy 1:14
14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. [Emphasis added]
He works to lead us.
He can be grieved [saddened] by us because of our disobedience to God’s Word.
He can be blasphemed [slandered] by us even as heaven-bound believers.
He speaks to us through the teachings of the Scriptures.
He teaches us as we study the Scriptures.
He reveals to us many wonderful things He wants us to know.
I don’t think I can say it enough that God the Holy Spirit never does any of these things independently of the written Word because we are told that all Scripture is God-breathed.
In the day when nearly all these Scriptures were written, God had not yet completed His revelation. But today, that’s not the case. Now everything God wants us to know in principle has been given to us through the writings of Scripture.
Many years ago I noticed the similarity of Ephesians 5:18 and Colossians 3:16. That was a great day in my life. Let’s look at those verses. If you read down through, noticing the context of these two passages, you’ll see that they’re similar. But let’s just look at these two verses for now.
I think we all know what it means to be driving under the influence of the spirits of alcohol. However, this passage is talking about living under the influence of the Spirit of God. Now let’s look at the other passage that has a similar context.
These passages are telling us that to be filled with the Spirit is to be richly influenced by the Word of Christ. Therefore, if you want Him to lead you, direct you, speak to you, reveal to you, or teach you, and more you must make the study of His words of revelation in Scripture a priority. The same may be related to these other things I’ll now list that He does for us.
He assures us that we are children of God.
He intercedes for us in our prayers to God our Father.
Conclusion—
We all need to know that the Holy Spirit is a real Person in our lives. He lives within us to help us with many things. But if we’re to get the benefits of blessing from that, we’re to make the learning of God’s Word from Scripture the main priority in our life day to day. Otherwise, we fall prey to living our lives in the same manner as unbelievers. The world of people around us will see us for who we really are—ignorant Christians. This ignorance of the Word of God can not only bring us much harm but cause us to miss out on many things we could have enjoyed as believers living out our lives here in service to the God who loves and cares for us like no one else. I hope you’ll give thanks to Him for all this that He’s provided for you and work to live a life that expresses only thanksgiving as you seek to faithfully serve Him.
For more information about the Holy Spirit, here are the links to some other articles about Him on this website–
Holy Spirit: Must hands be laid on people to receive Him?
Holy Spirit: Can you lose Him?
Holy Spirit: Does He really indwell all believers today?
Holy Spirit: What is His role in our life today?
Holy Spirit: What does it mean to be filled with the Spirit?
Share this article:
Tags:
LAST:
Is the Holy Spirit God?
Answer
The short answer to this question is, yes, the Holy Spirit as described in the Bible is fully God. Along with God the Father and God the Son (Jesus Christ), God the Spirit is the third member of the Godhead or the Trinity.
Those who challenge the idea that the Holy Spirit is God suggest that the Holy Spirit may simply be an impersonal force of some kind, a source of power controlled by God but not fully a person Himself. Others suggest that perhaps the Holy Spirit is just another name for Jesus, in spirit form, apart from His body.
These ideas do not line up with what the Bible actually says about the Holy Spirit, though. The Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a person who has been present with the Father and the Son since before time began. The Spirit is integral to all of the things that God is described as doing in the Bible.
The Spirit of God was present at and involved in creation (Genesis 1:2; Psalm 33:6). The Holy Spirit moved the prophets of God with the words of God (2 Peter 1:21). The bodies of those in Christ are described as temples of God because the Holy Spirit is in us (1 Corinthians 6:19). Jesus was clear that to be “born again,” to become a Christian, one must be born “of the Spirit” (John 3:5).
One of the most convincing statements in the Bible about the Holy Spirit being God is found in Acts 5. When Ananias lied about the price of a piece of property, Peter said that Satan had filled Ananias’s heart to “lie to the Holy Spirit” (Acts 5:3) and concluded by saying that Ananias had “lied to God” (verse 4). Peter reveals that the Holy Spirit is God. Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.
Jesus told His disciples that the Holy Spirit, the Helper, was different from Himself. The Father would send the Helper, the Spirit of truth, after Christ departed. The Spirit would speak through the disciples about Jesus (John 14:25–26; 15:26–27; 16:7–15). All three Persons Jesus mentions—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—are God while being distinct from each other within the Trinity.
The three members of the Trinity show up, together yet distinct, at Jesus’ baptism. As Jesus comes up from the water, the Spirit descends on Him like a dove while the voice of the Father is heard from heaven saying that He is pleased with His beloved Son (Mark 1:10–11).
Finally, the Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a person, not a mere force. He can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). He has a will (1 Corinthians 12:4-7). He uses His mind to search the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10). And He has fellowship with believers (2 Corinthians 13:14). Clearly, the Spirit is a person, just as the Father and the Son are persons.
Indeed, the Bible is unequivocal that the Holy Spirit is, in fact, God, just as Jesus Christ and the Father are God.
And this is the opinion of a solidly Predestination believing source. Got Questions
They weren't too far from the truth early on, but the apple didn't fall too far from the tree before it started to rot. Christianity became dominant in the highly diverse, paganistic, and polytheistic Roman empire. Trinitarianism was the deal they came up with to more easily unite the people around a religion that was palatable even for polytheists.
On the matter of the holy Spirit, Trinitarians nowadays often misunderstand the holy Spirit to be a 3rd person in a trinity when that simply isn't the case. There are many Biblical examples so let's lay the foundation correctly before stating the appropriate conclusion:
Luke 1:35, the Holy Spirit is God who came upon Mary.
Acts 10:38, Jesus was anointed and empowered by the Holy Spirit.
Michah 3:8, Micah filled with power by the Spirit of the Lord.
Psalm 139:7, the Spirit is God.
1 Cor. 2:11, the Spirit is God's Spirit, not a 3rd person any more than our spirit is a 3rd person within us.
Job 32:8, the Spirit is who gives life.
John 14:26, the Holy Spirit is sent by God.
Romans 8:11, Holy Spirit resurrected Jesus.
It goes on and on and there is a lot more to say. The point is, the Holy Spirit is God in some contexts and an anointing or gift in other contexts. In Cor. 2:11, if no one knows the mind of God except the Spirit, then that would mean the Father and Son don't know the mind of God, which is nonsense even in Trinitarianism. In Matthew 11:27, no one knows the Father except the Son, and vice versa, which would mean the Holy Spirit is not mentioned as someone who knows the Father and Son; once again is nonsense even in Trinitarianism. In Matthew 12:31,32, speaking against the Son is forgivable, but speaking against the Holy Spirit is not forgivable, but no mention of speaking against the Father? The examples go on and on and on.
So, Who is the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is God, yes, but the one and only true God is the Father (John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, Eph. 4:6) and John 4:23,24 says the Father is God who is holy and is Spirit. So the Father is holy and Spirit because the Father is God. Therefore the Holy Spirit is another name for the Father.
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Runningman
Active Member
John 1:1-3 explicitly makes distinction between the Word and The God. The Word is never identified as the definitive God because John wanted to show distinction between the Word as something that was toward The God, but not The God Himself. Only The God is the Creator in Christianity, as the Old Testament explicitly states repeatedly. The God who created all alone (Isaiaih 44:24) was not assisted by anyone else. Therefore, following context and standard pronoun-antecedent agreement, the God who is the Creator is not the Word, nor were they co-creators. I will also point you to Acts 4:23-31 where Jesus is entirely distinct from the Creator. Read it closely, please.
John 1:1
En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and God was the Word.
John 1:2
Houtos ēn en archē pros ton Theon
He was in [the] beginning with the God.
John 1:3
panta di’ autou egeneto kai chōris autou egeneto oude hen ho gegonen
All things through Him came into being, and without Him came into being, not even one [thing] that has come into being.
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synergy
Active Member
So why do you keep bringing up that modalism strawman? Looks like you out of ammunition for Judaizing unitarian beliefs.
You just love your strawmen, don't you?
Read John 1:3. All things (Universe) was made through Him. All things were made by the Father through the Uncreated Word of God. That proves the Trinity right there.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Runningman
Active Member
In the context, the Word is not The God. In Christianity, The God is the Creator, not someone else.
John 1:1-3 explicitly makes distinction between the Word and The God. The Word is never identified as the definitive God because John wanted to show distinction between the Word as something that was toward The God, but not The God Himself. Only The God is the Creator in Christianity, as the Old Testament explicitly states repeatedly. The God who created all alone (Isaiaih 44:24) was not assisted by anyone else. Therefore, following context and standard pronoun-antecedent agreement, the God who is the Creator is not the Word, nor were they co-creators. I will also point you to Acts 4:23-31 where Jesus is entirely distinct from the Creator. Read it closely, please.
John 1:1
En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and God was the Word.
John 1:2
Houtos ēn en archē pros ton Theon
He was in [the] beginning with the God.
John 1:3
panta di’ autou egeneto kai chōris autou egeneto oude hen ho gegonen
All things through Him came into being, and without Him came into being, not even one [thing] that has come into being.
