Who is the creator

[TibiasDad]

Jesus tells all he was created at Prov 8:22-The Hebrew word translated possessed means created.= The firstborn of all creation( Col 1:15)

The Proverb’s meaning is figurative/poetic in nature, not literal narrative! The original root meaning is to erect from which the idea of making something or “creating” something is found.

The NASB Translation translates it as
acquire (6), acquired (1), acquires (2), bought (20), buy (23), buyer (4), buying (2), buys (1), formed (1), gain acquisition (1), gained (1), get (3), gets (1), gotten (1), owner (1), possessed (1), possessor (2), purchased (3), purchaser (3), recover (1), redeemed (1), sold (1), surely buy (2).
(Note that create is never used.)

Now if we take the meaning to mean buy, acquire, get, etc, we are implying that God did not have wisdom at some point. The same inference is made by using the idea of creating, erecting or making because it means God was lacking “wisdom”.

God clearly does not and has never lacked wisdom, therefore, the word must be meant to convey the meaning of possessing or owning, which are legitimate meanings of the word.

If ‘create’ is a legitimate meaning, so must be all the other meanings that it can be. Context determines the possible meanings in all situations; create is not possible in Pro 8:22 unless God can lack wisdom at any time.

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Gen 1:1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Add to this the Word being there according to John, and we have at least two, if not three, which is my own interpretation. There are more than one no matter how you choose to parse it.

Doug

All angels were created prior to Earth and Man. Spirit of God= his active force.

 

[Keiw1]

In Greek, Theos without the article (ho/the) is a generalized term, “a god”, and does not refer to God, but rather a false god(s).

The article preceding Theos (ho Theos/the God, or just capital G God in English.) The article specifies a particular God in contrast to other so called gods. “The ball”,
is a specific ball relative to all other balls that may be chosen.

Ho Theos is the God above all other gods that people may want to worship.

I advise you to follow my advice and take Greek and avoid these mistakes in the future.


Doug

It refers to any called god.

 

[Keiw1]

"Firstborn" here means RULER. David was the youngest of 7 sons, yet he was called the "firstborn." Jesus is not a created being. He is the Creator. Simple, but fatal misinterpretation.

Reality-John 20:17

 

[Keiw1]

The Proverb’s meaning is figurative/poetic in nature, not literal narrative! The original root meaning is to erect from which the idea of making something or “creating” something is found.

The NASB Translation translates it as
acquire (6), acquired (1), acquires (2), bought (20), buy (23), buyer (4), buying (2), buys (1), formed (1), gain acquisition (1), gained (1), get (3), gets (1), gotten (1), owner (1), possessed (1), possessor (2), purchased (3), purchaser (3), recover (1), redeemed (1), sold (1), surely buy (2).
(Note that create is never used.)

Now if we take the meaning to mean buy, acquire, get, etc, we are implying that God did not have wisdom at some point. The same inference is made by using the idea of creating, erecting or making because it means God was lacking “wisdom”.

God clearly does not and has never lacked wisdom, therefore, the word must be meant to convey the meaning of possessing or owning, which are legitimate meanings of the word.

If ‘create’ is a legitimate meaning, so must be all the other meanings that it can be. Context determines the possible meanings in all situations; create is not possible in Pro 8:22 unless God can lack wisdom at any time.

Doug

Jesus is Gods master worker of Prov 8:22-30)-created direct-first and last= Only begotten son, all other things created THROUGH him( John 1:3-Col 1:15-16)--The He at Gen 1:27 = the creator, not both the us at 1:26) Jehovah=architect, creator--Jesus=Gods master worker-builder. 0 doubt in all creation.

 

[TibiasDad]

It refers to any called god.

To which term are you referring? Theos, without the article, is god(s), while ho Theos means the God(s).

In the NT, ho theos refers to God most of the time, 2 Cor 4:4 not withstanding.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Reality-John 20:17

Reality: John 20:28


Doug

 

[FreeInChrist]

All angels were created prior to Earth and Man. Spirit of God= his active force.

WHAT?

 

[charismaticlady]

Reality-John 20:17

17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

What's your point? Jesus is the Son of God. It is a title.

 

[Keiw1]

To which term are you referring? Theos, without the article, is god(s), while ho Theos means the God(s).

In the NT, ho theos refers to God most of the time, 2 Cor 4:4 not withstanding.

Doug

Ho Theos for the Father.

 

[Keiw1]

Reality: John 20:28


Doug

You allow words to be twisted and are refusing to believe Jesus. Think about that.

 

[Keiw1]

17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

What's your point? Jesus is the Son of God. It is a title.

Yes son of God, not God. God sent him( John 3:16) God did not come down here.

 

[TibiasDad]

All angels were created prior to Earth and Man. Spirit of God= his active force.

Based on what evidence do you make this argument? A force is not referred to as a Spirit. A force doesn’t have a will, or a voice. A force doesn’t communicate or command.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

It refers to any called god.

Any god but ho Theos, the God! Once again, Theos= a god; ho Theos= the God as opposed to all other so called gods.

Take Greek; you will learn this basic grammar in the first year.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Ho Theos for the Father.

Ho Theos is “the God”, not necessarily the father, though that is a general assumption.
There are, however, several exceptions to this generalization. For instance John 1:6:
Ἐγένετο ἄνθρωπος, ἀπεσταλμένος παρὰ Θεοῦ, ὄνομα αὐτῷ Ἰωάνης

“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”

Here God is not ho Theos, but simply Θεοῦ, the genitive case of Theos without an article, yet translated as God. The same type of construction is also found in John 1:12-13, 18 if memory serves. (John 1:18 has two examples of this- the first in reference to the Father and the second to the Son.)

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Jesus is Gods master worker of Prov 8:22-30)-created direct-first and last= Only begotten son, all other things created THROUGH him( John 1:3-Col 1:15-16)--The He at Gen 1:27 = the creator, not both the us at 1:26) Jehovah=architect, creator--Jesus=Gods master worker-builder. 0 doubt in all creation.

There is no “other” in John 1:3! It is simply “all things”… “whatever has been made”! It is not and cannot be “all other things, whatever else has been made.” It was the Word that is responsible for the creation according to John. That means that either “the Word” is the “He” in Gen 1:27, or the “us” in Gen 1:26 is the Father and the Word who share the same image after which we were to be created, which means there were at least two who were there when creation began. (There were actually three, given the Spirit was hovering over the firmament as well!)

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You allow words to be twisted and are refusing to believe Jesus. Think about that.

I take the words as they are written in the original language. Deal with the text, @Keiw1, and show us what I have “twisted”; no worries, I am not holding my breath, so take your time!


Doug