Jesus Christ is the wisdom and creation of God

[Runningman]

Go ahead. Take all the verses that demonstrate the Triune nature of God. Write arguments against those verses. You would do better spending your time doing that then doing Guerilla warfare with your little set of verses.
I am curious how you came to your view -- but not curious enough to dig into the details how you got there.

There aren't any. Thus, I have no burden of proof to perform the lifelong uphill fight that you have chosen. If you have proof, put it up or I'll assume you have lost your argument.

 

[mikesw]

There aren't any. Thus, I have no burden of proof to perform the lifelong uphill fight that you have chosen. If you have proof, put it up or I'll assume you have lost your argument.

Your ignorance of the verses of the Trinitarian evidence make you unable to develop an argument against it. You have just disqualified yourself from discussions. You can use your ignorance to make assumptions, but you are the one trying to convince people to accept a heretical view so the proofs need to come from you.

 

[DavidTree]

Bull. Always an excuse when you are dead wrong.

"dead wrong"

i SEE

 

[Runningman]

Your ignorance of the verses of the Trinitarian evidence make you unable to develop an argument against it. You have just disqualified yourself from discussions. You can use your ignorance to make assumptions, but you are the one trying to convince people to accept a heretical view so the proofs need to come from you.

Proving the trinity is your job. So far you are doing a lot of talking and not a lot of doing.

 

[mikesw]

Proving the trinity is your job. So far you are doing a lot of talking and not a lot of doing.

whatever. You can keep ranting about your theory but it is useless since you cannot make a case for your belief.

If you are not here to defend your belief system against what scripture reveals, you are just amusing yourself.

 

[FreeInChrist]

We have verified that the Word is not The God based on the Greek. We aren't talking about Jesus in John 1:1.

You just confessed that the grammar of John 1:1-3 rules out the Word as the Creator.

Yikes. Another one who cuts off scriptures to make a seeming point that is pointless.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He (Word) was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him (Word) all things were made, and without Him (Word) nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him (Word)was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 1:9 isn't about Jesus. Look at the chronology of John 1. Jesus was already 30 years old when the true Light was coming into the world.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Runningman ,

Who has proof that there is no Trinity?

Where is it written that is is false?

The are plenty of scriptures all over these threads that point to the 3. There are plenty of discussions about them.

Surly you can give us 1 single verse that says it is a false idea.

Maybe someone told someone to not baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Oh that's right. That is not Trinity proof.

So, if that be the case... what are people baptized for and by what authority would the Holy Spirit be included in the command?

We agree that God has all authority, do we not?

We also agree that Jesus was given some authority, no matter how you view it. Actually it is more then you are willing to admit or accept.

Now it was Jesus who said

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

So.... Not that they listened to Him, but the command went out inclusive of the Holy Spirit.. and I want to know why He is in there, especially if He is not in the trinity.

What did Jesus know that His disciples didn't when

A few days later, the apostles are equipped with the Holy Spirit and begin preaching the gospel. When the audience asks, “What shall we do?” in Acts 2:37, Peter says, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (v. 38).

Wait a minute. I thought they were supposed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet now Peter says baptism should be done in the name of Jesus Christ just a few days later. Are he and the rest of the apostles disobeying the Lord? Not only does this happen in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, but Peter also commands Cornelius’ household in Acts 10 “to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (v. 48). And again, after the apostle Paul teaches a dozen guys in Ephesus about baptism in Acts 19, Luke tells us: “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus” (v. 5).

Are the apostles now ignoring Jesus’ commandment? What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?

Well, allow me to help you out by providing the rest of the story here... done far better then I ever could.
No, and none.

First, let’s briefly see what it means to do something in someone’s name. In Acts 4:7, the council is questioning how the apostles were able to perform miracles. They ask, “By what power or by what name have you done this?” To do something in someone’s name means to do it with their power, authority, or permission. (Yes, this is foreshadowing the answer to question #2.) A police officer may say, “Open up in the name of the law!” No, he’s not claiming the law has a name. He is claiming to act with the authority of the law. He himself is not the law; but his words that are uttered “in the name of the law” become law. It’s not by his authority, but by the law’s authority.

In the same way, when Jesus sent His disciples to perform miracles or baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, He was giving them God’s authority to baptize. They had no power or authority in themselves. The power came from their sender Himself.

The most famous iteration of the Great Commission is Matthew 28 where Jesus says baptism is in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, in Luke’s account, Jesus says that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).

According to Jesus Himself, there is one shared authority (“name”) among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.<a href="https://topicalbiblestudies.com/whi...-spirit/#49456b93-fc66-4d12-bec5-ec7fcdcf3e16">1</a> Jesus is one with the Father (see John 10:30). The Holy Spirit never taught or directed anything against the Father’s or Jesus’ will. So to do something by the Father’s authority, the Son’s authority, and/or the Holy Spirit’s authority, you are doing it by God’s authority—in God’s name.

Before Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28, Jesus told them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (v. 18). How does that work out? To prepare them for His departure, Jesus had told the same men:

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 14:26

When the Holy Spirit worked through the apostles, He did so by the authority of Jesus, who further explained:

All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He [the Holy Spirit] will take of Mine and declare it to you.

John 16:15

So to believe baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is different from baptism in the name of Jesus is to commit the same fallacy of believing the red letters of the Bible are more valuable than the black ones (which we have a study on too).

So, if baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the same thing as baptism in the name of Jesus, what should the baptizer say at the baptism? What formula of words should be used?

1. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus uses the definite article (“the”) three times—the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Although all three are distinct, Jesus mentions only the singular name. ↩︎

Which is it? Baptism in Jesus’ name OR the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit?

Three major questions about baptism: 1. Is there a difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus? 2. Is it import…

topicalbiblestudies.com

Surly @Runningman you could see this and understand why we believe in the Trinity, using just this one example.

So Ill wait for your scripture proof that actually denies.....it.

 

[Runningman]

Yikes. Another one who cuts off scriptures to make a seeming point that is pointless.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He (Word) was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him (Word) all things were made, and without Him (Word) nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him (Word)was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

The "Him" in John 1:3 refers to the closest noun, which is "God" in John 1:2. So the God the Word was with is the Creator, not the Word.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman ,

Who has proof that there is no Trinity?

Where is it written that is is false?

The are plenty of scriptures all over these threads that point to the 3. There are plenty of discussions about them.

Surly you can give us 1 single verse that says it is a false idea.

Maybe someone told someone to not baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Oh that's right. That is not Trinity proof.

So, if that be the case... what are people baptized for and by what authority would the Holy Spirit be included in the command?

We agree that God has all authority, do we not?

We also agree that Jesus was given some authority, no matter how you view it. Actually it is more then you are willing to admit or accept.

Now it was Jesus who said

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

So.... Not that they listened to Him, but the command went out inclusive of the Holy Spirit.. and I want to know why He is in there, especially if He is not in the trinity.

What did Jesus know that His disciples didn't when

A few days later, the apostles are equipped with the Holy Spirit and begin preaching the gospel. When the audience asks, “What shall we do?” in Acts 2:37, Peter says, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (v. 38).

Wait a minute. I thought they were supposed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet now Peter says baptism should be done in the name of Jesus Christ just a few days later. Are he and the rest of the apostles disobeying the Lord? Not only does this happen in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, but Peter also commands Cornelius’ household in Acts 10 “to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (v. 48). And again, after the apostle Paul teaches a dozen guys in Ephesus about baptism in Acts 19, Luke tells us: “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus” (v. 5).

Are the apostles now ignoring Jesus’ commandment? What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?
What’s the difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus?

Well, allow me to help you out by providing the rest of the story here... done far better then I ever could.
No, and none.

First, let’s briefly see what it means to do something in someone’s name. In Acts 4:7, the council is questioning how the apostles were able to perform miracles. They ask, “By what power or by what name have you done this?” To do something in someone’s name means to do it with their power, authority, or permission. (Yes, this is foreshadowing the answer to question #2.) A police officer may say, “Open up in the name of the law!” No, he’s not claiming the law has a name. He is claiming to act with the authority of the law. He himself is not the law; but his words that are uttered “in the name of the law” become law. It’s not by his authority, but by the law’s authority.

In the same way, when Jesus sent His disciples to perform miracles or baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, He was giving them God’s authority to baptize. They had no power or authority in themselves. The power came from their sender Himself.

The most famous iteration of the Great Commission is Matthew 28 where Jesus says baptism is in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, in Luke’s account, Jesus says that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).

According to Jesus Himself, there is one shared authority (“name”) among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.<a href="https://topicalbiblestudies.com/whi...-spirit/#49456b93-fc66-4d12-bec5-ec7fcdcf3e16">1</a> Jesus is one with the Father (see John 10:30). The Holy Spirit never taught or directed anything against the Father’s or Jesus’ will. So to do something by the Father’s authority, the Son’s authority, and/or the Holy Spirit’s authority, you are doing it by God’s authority—in God’s name.

Before Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28, Jesus told them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (v. 18). How does that work out? To prepare them for His departure, Jesus had told the same men:


When the Holy Spirit worked through the apostles, He did so by the authority of Jesus, who further explained:


So to believe baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is different from baptism in the name of Jesus is to commit the same fallacy of believing the red letters of the Bible are more valuable than the black ones (which we have a study on too).

So, if baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the same thing as baptism in the name of Jesus, what should the baptizer say at the baptism? What formula of words should be used?

1. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus uses the definite article (“the”) three times—the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Although all three are distinct, Jesus mentions only the singular name. ↩︎

Which is it? Baptism in Jesus’ name OR the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit?

Three major questions about baptism: 1. Is there a difference between being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the name of Jesus? 2. Is it import…

topicalbiblestudies.com

Surly @Runningman you could see this and understand why we believe in the Trinity, using just this one example.

So Ill wait for your scripture proof that actually denies.....it.

Sure. The one God is explicitly defined as the Father, Jesus is distinguished from the one God as the one Lord, and the holy Spirit is not mentioned at all. Paul didn't even hint at a triune relationship anywhere.

1 Cor. 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.