Eternal Security

[Grace ambassador]

The Scriptures are clear that salvation is a gift. Ephesians 2:8

Yes, Very Clear Due To The Divine Basis of The Finished Work Of Christ On The Cross!
It boggles the mind that many do not believe/accept That ↑ This Payment ↑ is Totally
Sufficient for them to receive God's Free Gift Of Eternal Life.

Amen.

 

[Studyman]

The Scriptures are clear that salvation is a gift. Ephesians 2:8 teaches that salvation “is the gift of God.”
In John 10:28 NASB Jesus said, “I give eternal life to them and they shall never perish.”

Romans 6:23 NASB teaches that “the free gift of God is eternal life.”

I prefer to include all of the Scriptures when discussing God's version of Salvation. It seems prudent to consider the Words of the Jesus "of the Bible". That is why I posted them, although you don't seem too interested in them.

Scripture also teaches that the grace of God is a gift given the believer.

First Corinthians 1:4 refers to “the grace of God which was given you.” Ephesians 3:7 speaks of “the gift of God’s grace.” The Bible also says that we have been “justified as a gift” (Romans 3:24), and therefore we have “the gift of righteousness” (Romans 5:17).

So the question arises, Would God ever take back the gifts He has freely given? If salvation is a gift consisting of irreversible actions, can it ever be returned?

The question should be, "Who does God say receives His Gift"? Is it those who Call Jesus Lord, Lord? Or should I let the Christ Himself tell me?

John 5: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, "and" believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Of course, if this Christ is telling us the Truth, it would follow that HE would also say;

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And again;

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned "of the Father", cometh unto me.

It seems a man should also consider and believe these Inspired words as well. Why would a man ignore them?

Romans 11:29 says that “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

Consider this verse in other translations.

Wuest renders it, “For the gifts in grace and the calling of God are with respect to a change of mind irrevocable.”

The Living Bible reads, “For God’s gift and his call can never be withdrawn; he will never go back on his promises.”

The Amplified Bible teaches, “For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]”

There is no doubt God gives His Gift to some, but not to all. It seems a man should be interested in who Gods Word says receives His Gift, since it is His gift to give.

Rom. 2: 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Should a man not also consider these Words that I posted?

 

[Ahar]

The question should be, "Who does God say receives His Gift"? Is it those who Call Jesus Lord, Lord? Or should I let the Christ Himself tell me?

I'm so glad you asked because scripture also teaches that it is actually the believer who is a gift from God the Father to His Son, Jesus Christ. Consider the following statements by Jesus Himself:

All that the Father gives me will come to me John 6:37

For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him John 17:2

I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me John 17:6

I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours John 17:9

Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am and to see my glory John 17:24

In all these verses, and others, Jesus tells us that every true believer in Christ is a special gift from the Father to Him. Now let me ask some questions.

Would Jesus ever refuse a gift from the Father? Is this even conceivable? If Christians could lose their salvation, doesn’t this mean that the Father would have to take back those whom He gave to His Son as a special gift?

Would Jesus ever allow a precious gift from the Father to be sent to hell and eternally lost? If so, why would God ever present a man or woman to his own Son as a gift in the first place—when He knew that one day the gift would be taken from Him and consigned to eternal judgment?

That is an impossibility because God’s purpose, omniscience, and character could not allow it. That is why Jesus said,

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand” John 10:28

“All that the Father gives me will come to me and...I shall lose none of all that he has given me.… And I will raise him up at the last day” John 6:37-40

“I have not lost one of those you gave me” John 18:9

 

[Diserner]

If so, why would God ever

Free will.

God always has and always will respect free will.

That is why Christ's perfect eternal sacrifice doesn't automatically save people.

Free will.

 

[Hosanna]

I'm so glad you asked because scripture also teaches that it is actually the believer who is a gift from God the Father to His Son, Jesus Christ. Consider the following statements by Jesus Himself:

All that the Father gives me will come to me John 6:37

For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him John 17:2

I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me John 17:6

I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours John 17:9

Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am and to see my glory John 17:24

In all these verses, and others, Jesus tells us that every true believer in Christ is a special gift from the Father to Him. Now let me ask some questions.

Would Jesus ever refuse a gift from the Father? Is this even conceivable? If Christians could lose their salvation, doesn’t this mean that the Father would have to take back those whom He gave to His Son as a special gift?

Would Jesus ever allow a precious gift from the Father to be sent to hell and eternally lost? If so, why would God ever present a man or woman to his own Son as a gift in the first place—when He knew that one day the gift would be taken from Him and consigned to eternal judgment?

That is an impossibility because God’s purpose, omniscience, and character could not allow it. That is why Jesus said,

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand” John 10:28

“All that the Father gives me will come to me and...I shall lose none of all that he has given me.… And I will raise him up at the last day” John 6:37-40

“I have not lost one of those you gave me” John 18:9

Christ and the believer form “one body”. Can it be possible for Christ to lose parts of His body? Are bits and pieces of Christ to be missing in eternity? Why can’t we ever be separated from God’s love for us? One reason is our union with Christ. For God to abandon us He would have to abandon Christ.

 

[Diserner]

Can it be possible for Christ to lose parts of His body?

He gains parts doesn't he?

There is no difference in logic.

It literally says "severed" from Christ.

 

[Diserner]

It literally says "severed" from Christ.

Actually what Paul is referring to by "Severed from Christ" In Galatians 5:4 is putting yourself back under the law.

Paul is really not talking about how to get saved here or about the possibility of losing salvation, but about what legalism does to one’s ability to grow, mature, and experience the power of God in your life.

When you trusts in some form of legalism (as in circumcision or whatever) for righteousness before God whether for salvation or for sanctification, you have fallen out of the grace way of life by faith in the finished work and provision of Christ and are depending on a system of works which is totally unable to produce spiritual change from the inside out. This renders the benefits of Christ’s life null and void for spiritual change and maturity.

 

[Diserner]

Paul is really not talking about how to get saved here or about the possibility of losing salvation

If any GENERIC PERSON'S presuppositions do not allow ANY passage to be talking about that...

Then, TO THAT GENERIC PERSON, it's not even a POSSIBILITY that God is talking salvifically.

 

[Bronson]

Free will.

God always has and always will respect free will.

That is why Christ's perfect eternal sacrifice doesn't automatically save people.

Free will.

Having an unstable free will can not change the indissoluble union we have with Christ. The fact that it can never be dissolved can be found in the Bible.

“I am with you always, even to the end of the age” Matthew 28:20
“They shall never perish” John 10:28
“Nothing shall separate us from the love of Christ” Romans 8:35


The great theologian Augustus H. Strong declared, “Such a union as this lacks every element of instability. Once formed, the union is indissoluble. Many of the ties of earth are rudely broken—not so with our union with Christ—that endures forever. Because there is now an unchangeable and divine element in us, our salvation depends no longer upon our unstable wills, but upon Christ’s purpose and power. By temporary dereliction of duty or by our careless unbelief we may banish Christ to the barest and most remote room of the soul’s house, but He does not suffer us wholly to exclude Him; and when we are willing to unbar the doors, He is still there, ready to fill the whole mansion with His light and love

 

[Diserner]

Having an unstable free will can not change the indissoluble union we have with Christ. The fact that it can never be dissolved can be found in the Bible.

Please consult the John Wesley quote above.

And that's just a partial selection of passages that require intense explaining away and redefining.

If God didn't want free will to be a part of his grace, he would eliminate even the initial free will choice to begin with.

God would just automatically save you without any choice at all in any way.

It's like OSAS puts faith in your initial faith instead of Christ, himself.

 

[Aeliana]

 

[Diserner]

Edit by admin. Please keep your posts about the topic being discussed in the thread and not the individual members.

Because The doctrine of justification is an eternal verdict pronounced by God, it is made final the moment a person believes on Christ. As a result, justification is not a lifelong process, but is an instantaneous declaration of God that lasts forever.

The Bible teaches that any person who simply and truly believes in Jesus Christ as his or her personal Savior from sin is at that moment irrevocably and eternally justified. Justification is the final verdict of God whereby He not only forgives and pardons the sins of the believer, but He also declares the believer perfectly righteous by imputing the obedience and righteousness of Christ Himself to the believer through faith. It is on the basis of Christ’s life and atonement that God “pronounces believers to have fulfilled all the requirements of the law which pertain to them.”

 

[Doug Brents]

Christ and the believer form “one body”. Can it be possible for Christ to lose parts of His body? Are bits and pieces of Christ to be missing in eternity? Why can’t we ever be separated from God’s love for us? One reason is our union with Christ. For God to abandon us He would have to abandon Christ.

Two points about your comment here:
One, God did abandon Christ. When Jesus was on the cross He became sin for us. He took on our sins, and God turned away from Jesus the way He should have turned away from mankind.

Two, it appears as if you, like so many others, equate God's love with salvation. But the two are not synonymous, because Scripture says that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. While were were enemies, He loved us. His love caused Him to offer us salvation, but He loves us even when we are condemned. He loves the goats even as He sends them to Hell.

 

[Diserner]

Two points about your comment here:
One, God did abandon Christ. When Jesus was on the cross He became sin for us. He took on our sins, and God turned away from Jesus the way He should have turned away from mankind.

Two, it appears as if you, like so many others, equate God's love with salvation. But the two are not synonymous, because Scripture says that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. While were were enemies, He loved us. His love caused Him to offer us salvation, but He loves us even when we are condemned. He loves the goats even as He sends them to Hell.

You’re referring to some of Jesus’ last recorded words, spoken while He was dying on the cross. The Bible says that He “cried out in a loud voice … ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'” Mark 15:34

Jesus is quoting the first verse of Psalm 22. And if you look at the complete psalm you will see that God never abandoned him.

I find it is astounding to read Psalm 22 because it points forward in amazing detail to Jesus’ whole ordeal. The author of the psalm says, “I am scorned by everyone, despised by the people who mock me, they shake their heads at me, ‘You relied on the Lord — let him deliver you if he loves you, let him rescue you!’” Further on he writes, “Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.”

Despite the terrible ordeal, the psalmist does not despair. He does not give up on God and God does not give up on him. He writes, “For God has not spurned or disdained the misery of this poor wretch. He did not turn away from me, but he heard me when I cried out.” Then in the final verses, the psalmist sees that his suffering has a far greater significance. God will use the suffering to reveal his glory in the world. “All the ends of the earth will worship and turn to the Lord … the generations to come will be told of the Lord that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought.”

As far as Jesus becoming sin for us. Exactly what that means is highly debatable.

Perhaps the best way to understand He became sin for us is to begin with what it does not mean. First, it does not mean that Jesus actually became sin itself. To posit such a theory denies all of Scripture, which clearly presents Jesus Christ as the One in whom there is no sin (1 John 3:5), who commits no sin (1 Peter 2:22), and who is holy, blameless, and pure (Mark 1:24; Acts 3:14; Revelation 3:7). For Jesus to “become” sin, even for a moment, would mean He ceased to be God. But Scripture presents Jesus as “the same yesterday, today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). He was and is and always will be the Second Person of the Godhead (John 1:1).

If He became sin for us does not mean Jesus was sin, or a sinner, or guilty of sin, the proper interpretation can only be found in the doctrine of imputation. This is confirmed by the second part of 2 Corinthians 5:21: “So that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” To impute something is to ascribe or attribute it to someone. On the cross, our sin was imputed to Christ. That is how Christ paid our sin debt to God. He had no sin in Himself, but our sin was imputed (attributed) to Him so, as He suffered, He took the just penalty that our sin deserves. At the same time, through faith, Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us. Now we can stand before God sinless, just as Jesus is sinless. We are not righteous in ourselves; rather, Christ’s righteousness is applied to us.

So, “God made him . . . to be sin for us” means that Jesus, although sinless, was treated as if He were not. Although He remained holy, He was regarded as guilty of all the sin in the world. Through imputation of our sin to Him, He became our substitute and the recipient of God’s judgment against sin. Having saved those who believe, He is now “our righteousness, holiness and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30).

see Got?

You said: "God turned away from Jesus the way He should have turned away from mankind."

Part of the Gospel is that? What happened to John 3:16?

If it wasn't for God's love there wouldn't be any salvation.

 

[Diserner]

If it wasn't for God's love there wouldn't be any salvation.

If it wasn't for God's holiness, there would be no Cross.

People get myopic when they think about one of God's attributes at the expense of the others.

Notice you take the plainest meaning of Scripture—that he who knew no sin became sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him—and then you apply a ton of human philosophy and logic to it. Then, when you came out the other side, you say "Actuallllly, the verse means the OPPOSITE of what it literally says, because... it just CAN'T mean that." Jesus did not "know no sin offering" to become a "sin offering" for us, and the righteousness he imparts to us is directly paralleled to the sin he bore for us.

Where does Scripture say if God bears our sin he ceases to exist? Oh, that's right, absolutely NOWHERE, this rule is just thrown in there because it makes sense to someone's natural intelligence. That same human intelligence can decided that God becoming a man is logically impossible, that the problem of evil is logically impossible for a good God, that what Scripture plainly tells us just cannot be.

If the union of God and sin somehow "destroyed" God, how do you give yourself this humongous exception to be joined to Christ? You think you are holy enough to be joined to THE SINGLE most holy thing in all existence? Does a person want to somehow give themself the credit to be joined to God himself without destroying God, and yet feel too proud to admit they are joining sin to God?

Jesus quoted Psalm 22, but that does not mean that all of Psalm 22 always applies to his situation, and this kind of inconsistent ad hoc logic is just used to prop up a specific point that someone wants to prove. In other words, if I can find another verse in the Psalm that says a point I want to prove, then I give myself authority to use it. Did you know Jesus quoted Psalms in which David says he's a sinner? Or "a worm and no man"?

You acknowledge at the least that Jesus was treated as if he sinned, and that at least bares some essential elements of atonement. God's justice has to be a 1 to 1 ratio spiritually, as otherwise we change the Law of God, its demands, and no longer hold to the principle of substitution, the just suffering for the unjust. But if Jesus takes what sins deserves—what I deserve—it has to be the same thing I would have gotten.

So I urge all those playing around with atonement and watering it down because they have an emotional distaste for Christ having to pay such a great price for them, to see it is just their pride and idolatry at work, wanting to lessen and soften the consequences of their own sin before a holy God, and instead restore the true meaning of God's holiness in his judgment of all sin on the Cross.

This is a strong and Biblical view of the atonement—Christ became as us, that we might become as him.

The Union of God and Man.

 

[Hosanna]

The key to the Christian life is knowing the love of God at work in our hearts.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
—1 JOHN 4:16

In 1 John 4:16 I read that “God is love.” It doesn’t say that He loves, although I know that God does love us with unconditional love. This verse says that God is love. This is His nature, who He is. He will never be anything other than love because to be so would be contrary to His own nature.

 

[Diserner]

“God is love.”

I'm not even sure I know what real love means.

The holiness of God makes his love different and unique to my emotionally idolatrous concepts of love, in which I put creature above Creator.

 

[Grace ambassador]

I'm not even sure I know what real love means.

Precious friend, this is a good beginning, for me [to know]:

​

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another​

hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill,​

Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and​

if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying,​

namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his​

neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10)​

​

If I don't do the "thou shalt nots" then am I on my way to knowing "what real love means"?

Amen.

 

[civic]

Precious friend, this is a good beginning, for me [to know]:

​

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another​

hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill,​

Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and​

if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying,​

namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his​

neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10)​

​

If I don't do the "thou shalt nots" then am I on my way to knowing "what real love means"?

Amen.

Amen

 

[Diserner]

When Jesus is quoting the first verse of Psalm 22 He is most likely referring to the complete psalm. The Gospel writers often use the literary shorthand called allusion. With an allusion, the writer uses a quotation to refer to an entire passage or story which comes to life in the particular situation he is describing.

The fact that Jesus is God "Emmanuel" Makes it impossible for him to abandon himself. Then you have the whole dividing the trinity problem.