Eternal Security

[Administrator]

Okay guys I'm going to need you to work with me here. Once again we discussed the posts and not the posters. We don't want to do personal attacks. If that's against the rules. All I'm asking is we do better today. If it continues on I'll have to close the thread.

 

[Obadiah]

Okay let's get back on topic, Eternal Security. I think the parable of the lost son is a good example of eternal security.

A certain man had two sons; and the younger of them said to his father, “Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.”
Luke 15:11–12

From what I understand of first–century Jewish culture, no son with any respect at all for his father would dare demand his share of the inheritance. Go ahead and worked was you had to wait until the father chose the time for the division of the inheritance. To make things worse, the younger son was making the request. What he did was unthinkable!

But the father divided his wealth between them anyway. I would imagine it made him look foolish to the rest of the town people. Then we read not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living. He partied it all the way.

But then the story took a surprising turn:

Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be in need. And he went and attached himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he was longing to fill his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him.
Luke 15:14–16

This is the part I like

But when he came to his senses, he said, “How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.’ ” And he got up and came to his father.
Luke 15:17–20

But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him, and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him, and kissed him.
—Luke 15:20

The Pharisees must have cringed at the thought of embracing someone who had spent time feeding swine. Jesus then added,

And the son said to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.” But the father said to his slaves, “Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.”
Luke 15:21–24

No one would have blamed the father if he had refused to allow the boy to join up as one of his hired men. The son didn’t deserve a second chance, and he knew it. He recognized how foolish it would be to return with the notion of being allowed back into the family

His father, however, did not see things that way at all. In his mind, once a son, always a son. The father’s first emotion as he saw the son returning wasn’t anger. It wasn’t even disappointment. He felt compassion for him. Why? Because the young man was his son!
The father said: “This son of mine was dead and has come to life again” (Luke 15:24). He did not say, “This was my son, and now he is my son again.” On the contrary, there is no hint that the relationship was ever broken, only the fellowship. By “dead” Jesus meant “separated.” That was clearly a figure of speech since the son did not physically die in the parable.

Christ’s next words have been used by some to argue that salvation can be lost. He went on to say, “He was lost, and has been found” (v. 24). To say that “lost” and “found” refer to eternal salvation is to assume that they are being used figuratively. But there is no evidence for such a use from the immediate context. The son was literally lost. That is, the father did not know where he was. When the son returned, he was found.

Eternal security / Charles Stanley

 

[Studyman]

Hello @Studyman,

In relation to the underlined portion of your entry (above), Salvation is necessary because of the fall of Adam, way before the law was given, though of course it was disobedience to God's known will that caused his fall:-

'Wherefore, as by one man
sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Yes, there are "MANY" who come in Christ's name, that teach many things about God which are not true. Jesus warned men to "Take Heed" of these many, and I am sharing my understanding of this with others. We know God gave Adam "LAW" because Sin is Transgression of God's Laws, and also because the Scriptures tell us.

Gen. 2: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So yes, Adam was the first human on earth to be convinced that God's LAW was beneath him, and not worthy of his honor and respect. But I am not judged by what Adam does, it is written that I am judged by what "I" do. God created Adam unto "Good Works" that God before ordained that he should walk in them. That was Adam's duty. That is all men's duty, as it is also written.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Paul taught the same thing.

1 Cor. 7: 19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Like Adam, I have failed in this duty. But there is Hope because God has Provided an escape from this death, that I brought on myself.

It's called "God's Salvation". And the very first step in God's salvation is repentance. To change, to become a New Man, "created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So then I am not being like Adam, the first man which is fleshy. But like the last Adam which is Spiritual, like Jesus who walked in the "Good Works" God before Ordained that He should walk in them.

1 Cor. 15: 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So to further this world's teaching that Adam fell "way before the law was given" may be a popular doctrine of this world, but it's simply not true. And if deception is the foundation of a man's understanding, then how can a man rightly divide the Word of truth?

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Was sin imputed to Adam? How about satan? How about Cain? So again, to teach that God's Law didn't exist in the world even before Adam sinned, might be a popular religious philosophy, but this teaching doesn't come from Scriptures.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
who is the figure of Him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.
For if through the offence of one many be dead,
much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace,
which is by one man, Jesus Christ,
hath abounded unto many.'
(Rom 5:12)

Thank God for His Mercy. For another chance to be in His garden, only this time becoming a New Man created in righteousness and true holiness, one that will not eat of the forbidden fruit, like the second Adam.

And if I am steadfast in my duty to God, "Diligent" in my "reasonable service" to Him, I can trust that I am eternally secure.

Great topic.

 

[Rapture Bound]

There are many professing believers out there who tell me that Jesus' finished work on the cross doesn't equal OSAS. My response ... "correct, it doesn't equal it ... OSAS is the guaranteed result of it for all those who have truly trusted solely in it for their eternal salvation/life."

 

[Aeliana]

There are many professing believers out there who tell me that Jesus' finished work on the cross doesn't equal OSAS. My response ... "correct, it doesn't equal it ... OSAS is the guaranteed result of it for all those who have truly trusted solely in it for their eternal salvation/life."

Great post, I love it. Eternal security is a guarantee when you belong to Jesus and abide in him.

 

[Rapture Bound]

Great post, I love it. Eternal security is a guarantee when you belong to Jesus and abide in him.

Abiding in Jesus is the guaranteed result of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit and consequently being placed "in Christ".

 

[Rapture Bound]

The distinction between a person's possession of a true or a false sense of eternal security :

Do you possess a true or false sense of security/ assurance concerning your salvation? Recently I had a very important conversation with a friend pertaining to this issue, who holds to the LOS [Loss Of Salvation] position.

The question that he originally asked me was, "Are all of a believers sins [past, present, and future] already forgiven as it pertains to a believer's justified standing before God?"

In essence, our following dialogue shed light upon the distinction between a person's possession of a true or a false sense of eternal security before God :

Me : Another way to perceive the question would be, "Can believers possess a present assurance of a future entrance into Heaven? ... or, will failure on the part of some to confess or repent of their future sins "sufficiently" disqualify them from a future Heavenly inheritance?"

Many of those who believe that some genuine believers will lose [forfeit] their salvation agree that the believer can [and must] have assurance that they are a child of God. However, they don't believe this assurance includes a "future tense assurance." That is to say, they claim that this assurance can only be a present possession - believers are yet in some type of "probationary standing" in which they may yet fail to inherit what God has promised them [concerning their Heavenly inheritance ... future tense]. And if what they are saying is true, they cannot even logically claim to possess assurance that they will "remain saved" come next week or even tomorrow for that matter!

As I see it, the crucial question to ponder in the midst of this is, "Were genuine believers merely placed into some sort of probationary period [the first of a "two-step process" necessary to make the "final cut"?]. Or, did Christ's blood shed at Calvary actually and decisively atone for, and end once for all, the question of the issue of God's wrath and condemnation as it relates to those who have been washed by the precious blood of Jesus? It is my strong conviction that the latter is the gospel truth... it truly is the Good News that God legitimately offers to all.

To illustrate my assertion - What if a friend of mine was to say to me, "Today I've received Jesus as my Lord and Savior! I've placed all my faith and hope in His atoning work for the forgiveness of my sins; it's like a ten ton weight has been lifted off of me!!"? ... Should I respond by saying, "Praise God for this amazing news, I hope and pray that you make it to Heaven someday, I hope that you realize that you are still on probation despite the fact that you have been washed and cleansed you by the blood of Jesus?" ... I certainly hope that wouldn't be your response [whether it be verbal or your internal mind-set].

Now, it may be true that I may wonder if he or she truly placed their faith in Christ's atoning work on their behalf, and have asked for forgiveness solely on that basis. And, I may anxiously await to see if their are any fruits or evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence subsequent to my friend's profession of faith. But once again, the question revolves full circle back to question of genuineness. Was that person's faith truly "saving", was their faith directed, and placed upon the proper object of faith?... that being Christ's atoning work and His righteousness alone apart from anything that they can offer.

The real question at hand here is NOT, "will any person who has been justified before God lose or forfeit that position?"...but rather, "did that person ever experience the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and a justified standing before God?"

Friend : These are important questions that you bring up. I guess if you believe you can be saved and down the road lose your salvation, you can only be 100% sure of your present state of being a saved person.

But even if you can forfeit salvation for whatever reason, it doesn't mean there must be insecurity. Like being a dad to a child. The possibility of you leaving your child is there, but it's not like you are afraid this might happen, or feel insecure about it. Yet such things happen, even to good people.

Me : As for your assertion, "But even if you can forfeit salvation for whatever reason, it doesn't mean there must be insecurity" :

Well, from my perspective, it doesn't seem logically possible that at least some degree of insecurity doesn't exist in the minds of those who believe in LOS [Loss Of Salvation]. If they claim that some genuine blood-bought believers will ultimately perish, what then provides them with the assurance that they will not be one of those casualties? What then is it exactly that makes them so [presently] assured that they [specifically] are not going to be counted among those casualties? ...what makes them [as individuals] so special? ...what then provides [them] any type of genuine security or guarantee?

Keep in mind that it's exclusively those who assert that at least some genuine believers will necessarily and ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire [those of the LOS camp] that can logically claim that their future sins have not yet been forgiven [present tense] and covered by trusting in [past tense] the blood of Christ. In other words, in their case, and in their minds, they may or may not continue in their justified status before God [i.e. - their eternal destiny is yet (presently) in jeopardy].

Therefore, if their eternal destiny is yet in jeopardy, it appears to me that there must necessarily be some degree of present insecurity. After all, according to the LOS mindset, they may or may not remain in a justified standing before God next month or even next week [varying and depending upon just how short of a time period each individual LOS person reckons is sufficient to potentially forfeit their justified status].

Friend : You stated, "Keep in mind that it's exclusively those who assert that at least some genuine believers will necessarily and ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire [LOS] that can logically claim that their future sins have not yet been forgiven [present tense] and covered by trusting in [past tense] the blood of Christ."

Check Lutheran theology. They certainly believe God has forgiven us past, present and future sins, yet they believe you can forfeit your salvation.

No genuine believer will be cast into the lake of fire, but if you can stop being a genuine believer in the future the possibility is there.

The security for the Lutheran comes from knowing that God will keep you as long as you keep trusting in Him alone for your salvation. Lutherans believe if you start to include works into the equation you have gone from grace to putting yourself under the law, and is thereby putting your salvation at risk.

Ask Lutherans if they feel uncertain about their future salvation. I know the answer. They will most certainly tell you "no!"

Me : You replied, "Ask Lutherans if they feel uncertain about their future salvation. I know the answer. They will most certainly tell you "no!"

It seems to me that that type of security is a false sense of security ... Why? as I clearly demonstrated in my prior post, by their own admission they say that some of them will forfeit their justified status [i.e - their justified status in in jeopardy ... it is changeable/alterable. Some "Protestants" or "non- Roman Catholics" even believe that they can "morph in and out of their justified status" [i.e - born again, "un-born again", then - "born again ... again", "un-born again ... again" ...etc., etc. etc. - can you see the folly in this?] - which is clearly the Roman Catholic Church position]. Why do they presume that they are one of those who will "pass the test"? What is the basis or grounding for their so-called "assurance"? ... it simply does not exist, that is, if their claim is true that some blood-bought believers will actually forfeit their justified status and perish eternally?


You said, "The security for the Lutheran comes from knowing that God will keep you as long as you keep trusting in Him alone for your salvation."

My question to them would be, "How can I be assured that I will keep trusting in Him?" ..."what exactly is the basis or grounding for such a presumption? ... again, that is, if their claim is true that some blood-bought believers will actually forfeit their justified status and perish eternally? ... it simply doesn't exist. In other words, despite their claims of a present acceptance before God [whether it be actual or counterfeit], without trusting in God's promise to preserve their justified status all the way until they reach "the Pearly Gates" ... there is no way that they could know that they will actually enter in ... this certainly falls so very short of the true nature of salvation that was won at Calvary through Christ's finished cross work.

Friend : Sorry, I cannot offer a response that will support my position concerning your specific questions.

 

[Ahar]

Okay let's get back on topic, Eternal Security. I think the parable of the lost son is a good example of eternal security.

A certain man had two sons; and the younger of them said to his father, “Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.”
Luke 15:11–12

From what I understand of first–century Jewish culture, no son with any respect at all for his father would dare demand his share of the inheritance. Go ahead and worked was you had to wait until the father chose the time for the division of the inheritance. To make things worse, the younger son was making the request. What he did was unthinkable!

But the father divided his wealth between them anyway. I would imagine it made him look foolish to the rest of the town people. Then we read not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living. He partied it all the way.

But then the story took a surprising turn:

Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be in need. And he went and attached himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he was longing to fill his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him.
Luke 15:14–16

This is the part I like

But when he came to his senses, he said, “How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.’ ” And he got up and came to his father.
Luke 15:17–20

But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him, and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him, and kissed him.
—Luke 15:20

The Pharisees must have cringed at the thought of embracing someone who had spent time feeding swine. Jesus then added,

And the son said to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.” But the father said to his slaves, “Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.”
Luke 15:21–24

No one would have blamed the father if he had refused to allow the boy to join up as one of his hired men. The son didn’t deserve a second chance, and he knew it. He recognized how foolish it would be to return with the notion of being allowed back into the family

His father, however, did not see things that way at all. In his mind, once a son, always a son. The father’s first emotion as he saw the son returning wasn’t anger. It wasn’t even disappointment. He felt compassion for him. Why? Because the young man was his son!
The father said: “This son of mine was dead and has come to life again” (Luke 15:24). He did not say, “This was my son, and now he is my son again.” On the contrary, there is no hint that the relationship was ever broken, only the fellowship. By “dead” Jesus meant “separated.” That was clearly a figure of speech since the son did not physically die in the parable.

Christ’s next words have been used by some to argue that salvation can be lost. He went on to say, “He was lost, and has been found” (v. 24). To say that “lost” and “found” refer to eternal salvation is to assume that they are being used figuratively. But there is no evidence for such a use from the immediate context. The son was literally lost. That is, the father did not know where he was. When the son returned, he was found.

Eternal security / Charles Stanley

I've always liked Charles Stanley, Not so crazy about his son Andy. I pray God puts him on the right path. Problem is him leading other people astray. But I trust in eternal security to bring them back to their Father's house.

Two Very Problematic Andy Stanley Sermons

Not only do recent Andy Stanley clips contain error, but they show a complete lack of respect for the Word of God as the very Word of God and as the ultimate authority.

answersingenesis.org

 

[brightfame52]

Eternally secured even as unbelievers !

Eternally secured even as unbelievers ! Whom am I speaking of ? Why it pertaineth to Gods Elect, men and women for whom Christ died. Now understand something which the scripture teaches, that all for whom Christ died [ the offering of Himself] by that He hath perfected them forever Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Who are the them that are sanctified ? Why its them He died for in Vs 10

Now this being perfected forever doeth entail the purging away of their sins and the guilt and punishment due ! The writer of Hebrews earlier wrote of those Christ died for these words Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The word purged here the greek word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

a cleansing from the guilt of sins

Theres not one sin of theirs not satisfied for, hence they are perfected forever. Not even the sin of unbelief is held against them. How do we know this ? Its simple, because by His death they are reconciled to God even while being enemies/unbelievers ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Enemies and Unbelievers are the same. Remember what Jesus called the unbelieving jews here ? Lk 19:14

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

Now if we understand the parable here its speaking about the jews, the nation of israel. Then later He says of them same ones, the citizens of that nation which would not have Him to reign over them these words Vs 27

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

They were enemies broken of in unbelief Rom 11:20,28

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

But if one is an enemy in unbelief deserving of being cut off, and yet Christ died for them, they are reconciled to God ! Not only that, they are perfected forever ! 1

 

[dwight92070]

There are many professing believers out there who tell me that Jesus' finished work on the cross doesn't equal OSAS. My response ... "correct, it doesn't equal it ... OSAS is the guaranteed result of it for all those who have truly trusted solely in it for their eternal salvation/life."

I see NO PROMISE in the Bible that is guaranteed because they ALL have conditons to be met. And to think that ALL true believers throughout ALL history will ALWAYS 100% meet the conditions, is sheer fantasy. Even to think that ALL true believers throughout ALL history will ALWAYS WANT to meet the conditions is fantasy.
Thank God that at least those who want to meet God's conditions, but don't do it perfectly, can be forgiven and move on in Him, according to the scripture. However, the Bible also tells us that many true believers WILL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH.

 

[Bronson]

@brightfame52

Please correct me if I'm wrong, But your post is referring to perseverance of the Saints correct? The p in tulip. Perseverance of the Saints is distinct from the related doctrine of eternal security.

Five Differences Between Perseverance of the Saints and Eternal Security – Grace Evangelical Society

faithalone.org

 

[Whosoever]

We are eternally secure in our salvation not because we are faithful but because God is. He is reliable. He is trustworthy. He is true to himself and will never fail to fulfill what he has promised.

9 God is faithful (reliable, trustworthy, and therefore ever true to His promise, and He can be depended on); by Him you were called into companionship and participation with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord 1 Corinthians 1:9.

 

[Wholeheart]

True Believers Never Fall Away they have eternal security.

The ones that fall away are the wolves and sheep's clothing. They are people claim to be Christian, attend church on a regular basis, know the definitions of all those big theological words, and are even dedicated to ministry and appear to be normal everyday run of the middle Christians. But Jesus warns us not to be gullible or to believe everything they say or that we see.

15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.
16 You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.
18 A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.
20 Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name and driven out demons in Your name and done many mighty works in Your name?
23 And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].
Matthew 7:15–23.

 

[brightfame52]

@brightfame52

Please correct me if I'm wrong, But your post is referring to perseverance of the Saints correct? The p in tulip. Perseverance of the Saints is distinct from the related doctrine of eternal security.

Five Differences Between Perseverance of the Saints and Eternal Security – Grace Evangelical Society

faithalone.org

Well when you think about it, they are joined at the hip, since Christs death has perfected forever them He died for, that ensures their preservation in the faith unto the end, else His death would be made invalid.

 

[Wholeheart]

Rather than seeing it as joined as the hip, I see it as coming at it from two different directions. I prefer not to take the thread off track. It would probably fit in better here.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/forums/calvinism-vs-arminianism.31/

 

[civic]

I see NO PROMISE in the Bible that is guaranteed because they ALL have conditons to be met. And to think that ALL true believers throughout ALL history will ALWAYS 100% meet the conditions, is sheer fantasy. Even to think that ALL true believers throughout ALL history will ALWAYS WANT to meet the conditions is fantasy.
Thank God that at least those who want to meet God's conditions, but don't do it perfectly, can be forgiven and move on in Him, according to the scripture. However, the Bible also tells us that many true believers WILL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH.

The only condition for eternal life is faith. So as long as one believes they are secure. I cannot not believe in Jesus. My mind thinks about Him when I awake , when I go to sleep and throughout my day. This is my personal experience/relationship with Him. He is always on my mind throughout my day.

 

[Diserner]

17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them,
and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity;
but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
(Rom. 11:17-23 NKJ)

Individual branches. Some.

Not nations or groups.

"If you continue."

The Word is literally LYING to us if there is NO CONTINUING CONDITION.

Please stop making the Word lie.

 

[Rockson]

17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them,
and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity;
but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
(Rom. 11:17-23 NKJ)

Individual branches. Some.

Not nations or groups.

"If you continue."

The Word is literally LYING to us if there is NO CONTINUING CONDITION.

Please stop making the Word lie.

I agree. There of course needs to be answers to questions some have about this as there are scriptures which seem to speak of OSAS but no I think I agree.

 

[Rapture Bound]

The only condition for eternal life is faith. So as long as one believes they are secure. I cannot not believe in Jesus. My mind thinks about Him when I awake , when I go to sleep and throughout my day. This is my personal experience/relationship with Him. He is always on my mind throughout my day.

You replied, "I cannot not believe in Jesus." ... priceless!!... the exact sentiments expressed by many believers as well as the Apostle Paul! :

2 TIMOTHY 1:12, "For this reason I also suffer these things; but I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to protect what I have entrusted [past tense] to Him until that day.

The crazy but unfortunate thing about this is that there are likely genuine believers out there who don't actually believe that they will necessarily continue trusting in Jesus for their salvation ... consequently, they can easily become paralyzed with the fear at times that they will stop believing in Him at some time in the future and lose their salvation. They simply don't perceive and understand that the various hypothetical/conditional statements, the "ifs" seen throughout the scriptures, such as Colossians 1:23. "if indeed you continue in the faith" speak of the guaranteed by-product or result of a person being indwelt by the Holy Spirit [i.e. - all those who have genuinely born-again will continue in the faith -- or stated differently ... if a person has genuinely been born-again, they will consequently continue in the faith].

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 :
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Ezekiel 36:26-27, "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

 

[dwight92070]

We are eternally secure in our salvation not because we are faithful but because God is. He is reliable. He is trustworthy. He is true to himself and will never fail to fulfill what he has promised.

9 God is faithful (reliable, trustworthy, and therefore ever true to His promise, and He can be depended on); by Him you were called into companionship and participation with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord 1 Corinthians 1:9.

Of course He is and always will be faithful to keep His promises to those who obey and fulfill His conditions. For example, believing is a condition. ALL His promises require believing and continuing to believe. His promises do not apply to FORMER believers. Nor do they apply to those who no longer believe.

His faithfulness remains constant, even if we become faithless, that is, abandoning our faith. But if we deny Him , He also will deny us, not because He is no longer faithful, but because we have rejected Him

"It is a trustworthy statement: For if we (Paul and Timothy) died with Him, we will also live with Him; IF WE (Paul and Timothy) ENDURE, we will also reign with Him; IF WE (Paul and Timothy) DENY HIM, HE ALSO WILL DENY US (Paul and Timothy); IF WE (Paul and Timothy) ARE FAITHLESS, He remains faithful (Our discontinuance of our faith has no effect on His faithfulness, but it does remove us from the benefit of faith - our salvation), for He cannot deny Himself ( He's not going to change the condition for salvation, just because we stopped believing - that would be denying His own requirement or denying Himself). 2 Timothy 2:11-13

Abraham believed God (and continued to until death) and Paul explicitly said " And it was credited to him as righteousness." Romans 4:3-5 Paul goes on to say that Abraham's faith was NOT a work, as some on this forum have repeatedly said. Continuing faith or belief is Not a work OF MAN. Jesus said that it WAS THE WORK OF GOD, John 6:29, but He never said that it was a work OF MAN. Paul clarifies that in Romans 4, that faith is not a good work as we generally think of good works.