Eternal Security

[Clifford]

3 Yet the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen [you] and set you on a firm foundation and guard you from the evil [one].
4 And we have confidence in the Lord concerning you, that you are doing and will continue to do the things which we suggest and with which we charge you.
5 May the Lord direct your hearts into [realizing and showing] the love of God and into the steadfastness and patience of Christ and in waiting for His return. 2 Thessalonians 3:3–5

Does the Scriptures actually teach that regardless of the consistency of our faith, our salvation is secure? Yes, they do, through both proposition and illustration.

If we died with Him, we shall also live with Him;
If we endure, we shall also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:11–13

The unfaithful believer will not receive a special place in the kingdom of Christ like those who are fortunate enough to be allowed to reign with Him. But the unfaithful believer will not lose his salvation.

 

[dwight92070]

The only condition for eternal life is faith. So as long as one believes they are secure. I cannot not believe in Jesus. My mind thinks about Him when I awake , when I go to sleep and throughout my day. This is my personal experience/relationship with Him. He is always on my mind throughout my day.

 

[dwight92070]

James tells us that "faith, if it has no works is dead". Faith and works should not compete with each other. Both are part of our Christian walk. People always act on faith. If you believe, you act accordingly. If you believe in Jesus, that He is not only your Savior, but also the Lord of your life, then you will submit to His commands and obey Him.

Jesus told us to "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them ..., teaching them to observe all that I commanded you."
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord', and do not do what I say?
Peter and the apostles said, "We must obey God rather than men, ..."
John said, " ... because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight."

Salvation is not all about what we get out of it - it's what's pleasing to God, which we see in the Old and New Testament.
Samuel said, "Has the Lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord. Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, ... for rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry."
Isaiah said, "If you consent and obey, you will eat the best of the land."
Jeremiah said, "Please obey the Lord in what I am saying to you, that it will go well with you and you may live."

The opposite of faith, according to the Bible, is not unbelief, but disobedience.
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36
"Therefore to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient ... " 1 Peter 2:7
Faith is consistent with obedience. Unbelief is consistent with disobedience.
Someone said, "Most Christians are more afraid of holiness than they are of sin."
Obedience is the essence of salvation.

John said, "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3-4
"And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him." Acts 5:32
" ... except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed." Romans 15:18
" ... fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts ..." 1 Peter 1:13-14
" ... who will render to each person according to his deeds; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation." Romans 2:6-8

Every time the final judgment is mentioned in both Old and New Testaments, it always says that we will be judged by our deeds.
" ... dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." 2 Thess. 1:8
"For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17

Doing and advocating good works is not legalism and obeying Jesus is not legalism.
Titus 3:5, Eph. 2:8-10, Col. 1:10, 2 Tim. 3:16-17, Titus 3:14, Matthew 5:16, 1 Peter 2:12, 2 Timothy 2:21, Titus 2:14, Titus 3:1, Heb. 10:24, Heb. 13:20-21, Phil. 2:12-13
Paul and Jesus are in favor of good works, as we see in all these verses.

 

[civic]

Fruit comes from the root, no root, no fruit. Fruit is the result of having the Spirit in you just as works are the result of salvation- Ephesians 2:10. One produces the other. A good tree produces good fruit.

 

[dwight92070]

Trust and Obey

When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
What a glory He sheds on our way,
While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
And with all who will trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way,
To be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey.

Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet,
Or we'll walk by His side in the way,
What He says we will do, Where He sends we will go,
Never fear, only trust and obey.

 

[civic]

Trust and Obey

When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
What a glory He sheds on our way,
While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
And with all who will trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way,
To be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey.

Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet,
Or we'll walk by His side in the way,
What He says we will do, Where He sends we will go,
Never fear, only trust and obey.

I use to love singing this in the 80's. We use to just sing songs like that one in acappella

 

[dwight92070]

None of that is under debate. We all agree with that (at lease I do, sorry if I am speaking out of turn for anyone else here). What is being contended is that there are conditions that God put in place that man must meet if he is to receive the gift that God purchased with Jesus' blood. If those conditions are not met by each individual, and maintained by that individual for the rest of that person's life, then the results of that sacrifice will not be received by that individual.

Doug,
I had to look up one of your older posts to find you. I wanted to comment on your letter to your pastor and your discussion with him and the elders.
I couldn't find the exact post. But it's too bad that ANY church "leaders" would not at least allow you to express your disagreement with them. I could not stay at a church like that. They seem so determined to maintain control of their "little kingdom" that they cannot allow any other opinion than what they hold. Even Paul said that he didn't want to "lord it over" the disciples faith. It seems as if the elders might have simply been "yes" men for the pastor. No church should ever "run" like that.
On the other hand, if they had given you the freedom to share what you believe with them, and then they responded: "We respect your right to believe differently than us, but we still feel that our understanding of that subject is correct. In fact, this is our opinion on that subject: Blah. Blah. Blah. We want you to feel welcome here, even if you disagree, but we appeal to you to avoid causing any divisions because we don't see eye to eye.
If they had that response, that would at least be showing you respect, being honest with you, and allowing you to stay at that church without any hard feelings - if you wanted to do that.

 

[dwight92070]

Regarding being born again, here are some observations:
Luke 10:25 A lawyer asks Jesus, "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?". It also says that he was testing Jesus. But why didn't Jesus say "You must be born again"? Instead He simply told him to obey Moses' law.

Luke 18:18 The rich young ruler asks Jesus the same question, "What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" However, he is not testing Jesus. But Jesus tells him pretty much the same answer: Obey the commandments. Why didn't Jesus say "You must be born again"? Then Jesus said that he still lacked one thing ... and the ruler refused to comply and went away sad.

Luke 19:1 Zaccheus was looking forward to see who Jesus was. When Jesus called him down from the tree, Zaccheus told Him he would give away half of his possessions, and he would repay fourfold anyone who he had cheated. Jesus said, "Today salvation has come to this house ..." Why didn't Jesus tell Zaccheus that he had to be born again? Why didn't Jesus tell Zaccheus to obey the law of Moses, like He did the other two men? We know he was saved, but we have no record of him being born again - UNLESS Jesus realizes with Zaccheus' change of heart, that he was being born again.

John 3:1 Jesus tells Nicodemus that unless he is born again, he will never see the kingdom of God. In John 3:14-18, He explains that he must believe in the Son - so apparently THAT is what He means by being born again. But again, why didn't Jesus tell Nicodemus to obey the Law in order to be saved?

We know that during Jesus' lifetime, there appears to be a gradual transfer from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. So sometimes Jesus commanded certain people to obey Moses, some He told they must be born again, and others He simply acknowledged that salvation had come to their house, with no mention of being born again.

In Acts 2:38, after Jesus' resurrection, Peter tells the people to, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ..." Why didn't he tell the people that they must be born again? I think the answer is - to repent and be baptized IS being born again. In fact, I don't believe that being born again is mentioned anywhere in the book of Acts, or in the rest of the New Testament, with maybe one exception. Peter mentions it in 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2.

So even though being born again is necessary, it may not always be called that. Apparently it's the same thing as repenting of our sins and believing in Jesus and being baptized as He commanded.

 

[Theophilus]

I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Cor. 1:4–9)

There it is one of the clearest and most striking declarations of God’s commitment to preserve and protect his children all the way through to the end when Jesus returns.


He doesn't lose any of those given to him by the father. He will leave the 99 to go get that one Stray Lamb. He will never leave us nor forsake us.

 

[Clifford]

I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Cor. 1:4–9)

There it is one of the clearest and most striking declarations of God’s commitment to preserve and protect his children all the way through to the end when Jesus returns.


He doesn't lose any of those given to him by the father. He will leave the 99 to go get that one Stray Lamb. He will never leave us nor forsake us.

I couldn't agree with you more. Unbelief has always been singled out as the primary damning sin. A person who doesn’t believe doesn’t obey. Unbelief always produces evil works. It is this record of unbelief and subsequent evil works that is revealed in the Great White Throne judgment; this record becomes the basis for eternal condemnation.

Little children have no such record. They have no basis on which to believe or not believe. They are incapable of discerning right from wrong, sin from righteousness, evil from goodness. Scripture is very clear on this truth. Little children have no record of unbelief or evil works, and therefore, there is no basis for their deserving an eternity apart from God. As innocents, they are graciously and sovereignly saved by God as part of the atoning work of Christ Jesus

 

[civic]

I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Cor. 1:4–9)

There it is one of the clearest and most striking declarations of God’s commitment to preserve and protect his children all the way through to the end when Jesus returns.


He doesn't lose any of those given to him by the father. He will leave the 99 to go get that one Stray Lamb. He will never leave us nor forsake us.

Excellent

 

[Diserner]

The day I believe in any OSAS is the day this little word is no longer in the Bible:

IF

 

[civic]

The day I believe in any OSAS is the day this little word is no longer in the Bible:

IF

do you apply if to every other verse its used in the same way ?

 

[Theophilus]

The day I believe in any OSAS is the day this little word is no longer in the Bible:

IF

If you say so.

 

[civic]

If you say so.

Lol

 

[dwight92070]

I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Cor. 1:4–9)

There it is one of the clearest and most striking declarations of God’s commitment to preserve and protect his children all the way through to the end when Jesus returns.


He doesn't lose any of those given to him by the father. He will leave the 99 to go get that one Stray Lamb. He will never leave us nor forsake us.

It's not surprising how you choose scripture with all of the promises of God, but none of the responsibilities of men. The above verses, taken by themselves have us just passively waiting "for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you (us) to the end ...". Sit back, relax, we're saved, no worries, we don't have to do anything.

Can't you see that you're presenting only one side of the coin? Sure, those are GOOD verses of encouragement to "babes in Christ". In chapter 3:1, Paul encourages them to GROW UP: "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ."

The author of Hebrews has a similar message: "For by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food ... for he is an infant." Hebrews 5:12-13

Hebrew 5:9 says "And having been made perfect, He became to all those who OBEY Him THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION, ..."
It's time to take responsibility, grow up, and OBEY HIM. If we don't obey (as a way of life), then we have no "source of eternal salvation". Why is it that people of your persuasion don't want to talk about OUR RESPONSIBILITIES? REPENTING and BELIEVING is JUST THE BEGINNING! We HAVE TO GO ON TO OBEYING JESUS AND DOING WHAT HE SAYS.

"Why do you call Me, Lord, Lord, and DO NOT DO WHAT I SAY?"

 

[Rowan]

There is scriptural evidence that all true Christians are eternally secure. In John 6:38–40, Jesus says: “I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

I love how Jesus tells us that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. He says that he will raise that person up at the last day, giving that person eternal life with him. Moreover, Jesus says it is God’s will that he “lose nothing” of all God has given him.

Jesus makes a similar promise in John 10:27–29: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.”

In John 10:28 specifically, Jesus says two things about his followers. First, he says, “no one will snatch them out of my hand.” Second, he says, “they will never perish.” These phrases, taken together, drive home the wonderful promise that those to who Jesus gives eternal life will never lose that life.

These are just two of the promises given by Jesus regarding eternal security. From these two passages, it seems clear that Jesus understood that those who received eternal life from him would keep that eternal life for all eternity.

 

[Diserner]

do you apply if to every other verse its used in the same way ?

Of course.

If you say so.

Mocking is not an argument.

 

[Rowan]

Paul, in Colossians 1:22–23, writes to the Christians there that Christ reconciled them to God “in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard.”

Not wanting to give those who weren’t truly Christians a false assurance, Paul put a condition of perseverance on the promise he was giving. By saying “if indeed you continue in the faith,” Paul is not trying to threaten or scare true believers; instead he is saying that those who don’t truly believe will eventually fall away from the faith they claim to have.

The promise in perseverance is that those who continue in faith until the end of their life are true Christians. As we stated earlier, this does not mean these people will live perfect lives. True Christians may have deep struggles with sin at different times in their life. But what it does mean is that those struggles will actually be struggles. True Christians will fight against sin through repentance and faith. The promise in perseverance serves as a warning to those who aren’t truly Christians because it gives them reason to believe that if they do fall or have fallen away from the faith, it is a strong indication that they were never true believers in the first place.

Wayne A. Grudem

 

[Diserner]

The irony with the "if you endure you prove you were osassed" model is it offers no real security at all.

People who looked "just as" Christian as you are now "never were Christian."

There's no proof ANYONE is Christian under this model.


No Paul meant EXACTLY what he said, not the "spin" version of "this is REALLY what he meant."

"if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard.”

That's what Paul meant.


No commentary needed.