Theophilus
Active member
I agree it's a guarantee.
Eternal Security
- Thread starter Ahar
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dwight92070
Well-known member
The rich young ruler wanted salvation. What did Jesus tell him? "It's a free gift! You can have it! I'll give it to you!?" That's exactly what a OSAS person would have told him. But NOT Jesus!
No! Jesus told him to sell everything he had, give it all to the poor, and to follow Him, and you will have treasure in heaven!
Zaccheus promised to give half of his possessions to the poor! Then he promised to repay anyone he had cheated four fold! What did Jesus tell him?
Zaccheus, keep your money. Salvation is free, you don't have to do that. That's what the OSAS people would tell him.
No! Jesus accepted his huge offering and his promise to restore what he had cheated people for. "Today, salvation has come to this house!" HE said.
No! Jesus told him to sell everything he had, give it all to the poor, and to follow Him, and you will have treasure in heaven!
Zaccheus promised to give half of his possessions to the poor! Then he promised to repay anyone he had cheated four fold! What did Jesus tell him?
Zaccheus, keep your money. Salvation is free, you don't have to do that. That's what the OSAS people would tell him.
No! Jesus accepted his huge offering and his promise to restore what he had cheated people for. "Today, salvation has come to this house!" HE said.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Carnal people - that is, lovers of money and lovers of this world - won't truly repent. But when they reach the point of a willingness to repent, they jettison their carnality, for the most part. Look at Cornelius, the Ethiopian eunuch, Zaccheus, the Centurion, etc
Kokomo
Member
Looks like the work salvation crowds getting a little worked up. But we love each other!
“I will love them freely.”
—Hosea 14:4
Yeah the work salvation crowd aren't real keen on that word freely. It's is a death-blow to all sorts of backsliding: “I will love them freely.” Now, if there were any works necessary for us, then he would not love us freely, at least, this would be a mitigation and a drawback to the freeness of it.
But it stands, “I will love you freely.” We complain, “Lord, my heart is so hard.” “I will love you freely.” “But I do not feel my need of Christ as I could wish.” “I will not love you because you feel your need; I will love you freely.” “But I do not feel that softening of spirit which I could desire.”
Remember, the softening of spirit is not a condition, for there are no conditions; the covenant of grace has no conditionality whatever; so that we without any works may venture upon the promise of God which was made to us in Christ Jesus, when he said, “He that believeth on him is not condemned.”
It is blessed to know that the grace of God is free to us at all times, without preparation, without works, without money, and without price! “I will love them freely.” These words invite backsliders to return: indeed, the text was specially written for such—“I will heal their backsliding; I will love them freely.” Backslider! surely the generosity of the promise will at once break your heart, and you will return, and seek your injured Father’s face.
That's how he does it, He's my King!
“I will love them freely.”
—Hosea 14:4
Yeah the work salvation crowd aren't real keen on that word freely. It's is a death-blow to all sorts of backsliding: “I will love them freely.” Now, if there were any works necessary for us, then he would not love us freely, at least, this would be a mitigation and a drawback to the freeness of it.
But it stands, “I will love you freely.” We complain, “Lord, my heart is so hard.” “I will love you freely.” “But I do not feel my need of Christ as I could wish.” “I will not love you because you feel your need; I will love you freely.” “But I do not feel that softening of spirit which I could desire.”
Remember, the softening of spirit is not a condition, for there are no conditions; the covenant of grace has no conditionality whatever; so that we without any works may venture upon the promise of God which was made to us in Christ Jesus, when he said, “He that believeth on him is not condemned.”
It is blessed to know that the grace of God is free to us at all times, without preparation, without works, without money, and without price! “I will love them freely.” These words invite backsliders to return: indeed, the text was specially written for such—“I will heal their backsliding; I will love them freely.” Backslider! surely the generosity of the promise will at once break your heart, and you will return, and seek your injured Father’s face.
That's how he does it, He's my King!
Kokomo
Member
So we can buy our way into heaven, Who knew?
Whosoever
Member
@Kokomo
You mentioned “backsliding” in your above post. To me it denotes failure to make progress and go forward. Peter’s denial of Christ in the high priest’s palace was preceded by his following him “afar off”, I would call that backsliding and I think it has been recorded for our learning and warning. It's my belief that when we drift away from the Lord and try to live life our old way we become so miserable we want to return. Just as Peter did. I also believe there's a price to pay for disobedience. Like the story of King David he paid a terrible price for his disobedience But he didn't lose his relationship with God.
So can you see how this same principle is illustrated in connection with the awful fall of David. Though it was “at the time when kings go forth to battle” he was selfishly and lazily taking his ease, and while so lax succumbed to temptation. He wasn't taking care of business. Unless we “follow on to know the Lord” and learn to make use of the armor which he has provided, we shall easily be overcome by the enemy. Only as our hearts are kept healthy and our affections set upon things above shall we be impervious to the attractions of this world. We cannot be stationary: if we do not grow, we shall decline.
But as you can see from the two examples above God doesn't deny us nor forsake us. Yes he'll let us walk away but he'll make sure we come to our senses and come back to our father's house. The best thing to do and avoid all that is to remain in Christ. To love God and to love each other if we manage to do that everything else will fall into place. You won't be made to do good works you'll want to do good works. You won't be made to pay your Tithe you'll want to pay your Tithe. In other words you'll want to do what's right.
You mentioned “backsliding” in your above post. To me it denotes failure to make progress and go forward. Peter’s denial of Christ in the high priest’s palace was preceded by his following him “afar off”, I would call that backsliding and I think it has been recorded for our learning and warning. It's my belief that when we drift away from the Lord and try to live life our old way we become so miserable we want to return. Just as Peter did. I also believe there's a price to pay for disobedience. Like the story of King David he paid a terrible price for his disobedience But he didn't lose his relationship with God.
So can you see how this same principle is illustrated in connection with the awful fall of David. Though it was “at the time when kings go forth to battle” he was selfishly and lazily taking his ease, and while so lax succumbed to temptation. He wasn't taking care of business. Unless we “follow on to know the Lord” and learn to make use of the armor which he has provided, we shall easily be overcome by the enemy. Only as our hearts are kept healthy and our affections set upon things above shall we be impervious to the attractions of this world. We cannot be stationary: if we do not grow, we shall decline.
But as you can see from the two examples above God doesn't deny us nor forsake us. Yes he'll let us walk away but he'll make sure we come to our senses and come back to our father's house. The best thing to do and avoid all that is to remain in Christ. To love God and to love each other if we manage to do that everything else will fall into place. You won't be made to do good works you'll want to do good works. You won't be made to pay your Tithe you'll want to pay your Tithe. In other words you'll want to do what's right.
Ezra
Well-known member
no it is not Obeying Jesus comes came being led by the spirit ***** not some self effort of doing which is legalism
Jesus said, both as the Rock of Israel, and as the man Jesus, that if I want to enter Life, Keep the Commandments of God. He also said there are "Many" who call Him Lord, who claim belief in Him, but continue in iniquity even after HE shed His Blood for them. To those, who "Repent, Turn to God, and "Do works" worthy of repentance, there is hope for eternal life. But to those who call Him Lord, Lord, but still work iniquity, there is eternal destruction.
So isn't this verse saying, that God so loved the World, that HE gave His Only Son, even to Abraham, that whosoever believes in HIM, will live forever?
There are a lot of people now and has been since Eve was convinced by another voice that God lied to her, that don't "SEE" God and HIS Way, as Making sense to them. So they create their own religion that does make sense to them. What I advocate for is trusting the Holy scriptures, all of them, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
For me, I already know my thoughts are not God's Thoughts. So I'm fine letting HIS Word instruct me and denying my thoughts that would get in the way.
If you would follow the instructions of the Christ of the Bible, you would "live by" Every Word of God, and not just a few. When a man does this, HE understands that men who continue enduring temptations till the END, shall be saved. This same Jesus "of the Bible" also says; Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
So for His body of believers, "seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."
WE don't want to become like those believers of Christ in Matt. 7, and be convinced we are already immortal.
This is true, Jesus said "Many" would come in His Name, who preach that HE is truly the Messiah. But they are actually deceivers. I'm sure they also believed they were already immortal.
No offence taken. And no doubt there are "many" who believe they are saved, that are not. In fact, every religious sect, franchise and corporation on the planet, all differing in doctrines and traditions, teaches anyone who will fill the seats of their manmade Shrines of Worship, that they are saved.
The Christ "of the Bible" warned of this very thing even before HE became a man.
Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (In other words, "You are Saved")
And Again, after Becoming a man;
Matt. 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.
He could have warned about Atheists, Islam, Buddhism, even Jews? But HE didn't. He warned about "Christians". I think this is pretty significant, therefore, I place my trust in the Scriptures concerning the very popular religious philosophy of this world God placed me in, namely OSAS.
Rom. 11: 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
I know this isn't a great marketing strategy to get people to fill the seats of these expensive shrines of worship. But it is what is written. And I believe it.
Perhaps if a man would simply trust the Scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness", they wouldn't come to believe they are already immortal in the first place.
Diserner
Well-known member
I'm puzzled why I've never been tempted to believe in eternal security. I'm sure it could be appealing, and I have had as much performance struggles as anyone.
I'm sensitive to charges of legalism and am completely support of salvation by grace, but that can't mean our decisions make no difference, as that logic leads to the elimination of free will altogether.
Keeping your faith in Christ is not the same thing as out-sinning the Cross; there is conditions for initially getting saved, and then people balk at "as you have received Christ Jesus so walk in him?"
The only logically consistent eternal security is the complete and absolute elimination of all free will—nothing you do matters salvifically, you are auto-saved from before you born.
I'm sensitive to charges of legalism and am completely support of salvation by grace, but that can't mean our decisions make no difference, as that logic leads to the elimination of free will altogether.
Keeping your faith in Christ is not the same thing as out-sinning the Cross; there is conditions for initially getting saved, and then people balk at "as you have received Christ Jesus so walk in him?"
The only logically consistent eternal security is the complete and absolute elimination of all free will—nothing you do matters salvifically, you are auto-saved from before you born.
I was trusting what the Christ said about men, and have come to understand HE speaks the truth. It is my understanding that my mind is carnal, and I am to "Deny myself" and pick up my cross (my carnal mind) and follow the Christ.
At some point, at the return of the Christ, HE will change me from corruptible to incorruptible, from mortal to immortal. Until then;
"Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
So yes, the carnal mind isn't to guide our footsteps anymore. But the Battle I am in, is against the thoughts of my own mind. As it is written.
Eph. 6: 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (our mind, where the temple of God exists)
I'll be glad when God removes the Struggle.
Aeliana
Well-known member
That's not even close to what the parable of the Rich Young Ruler is about. Jesus went through a checklist with him of The Commandments and he passed. Well at least according to his testimony. And that was before they ever got to his money and possessions.
“Do not commit adultery” OK, this one may have been a pretty easy check mark, that is, if he knew nothing about lust as committing adultery in our hearts. Remember Jesus talking about that one?
I am still willing to give the rich young ruler the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he practiced a very disciplined life and did not feed his flesh with things that spur wrong thoughts. Let’s give him a check mark here.
“Do not murder” Of course, there’s that little “anger” issue that Christ discussed in Matthew About calling people fools, but let’s go ahead and give him a check mark on this one, too.
“Do not steal” Maybe we’ve never mugged someone on the street or even swiped candy from the convenience store, but did he ever secretly defraud or steal anything of a less tangible nature from another person? Perhaps so. I’m still willing to give him a check mark, but let me just say I’m impressed!
“Do not give false testimony” This command is simple: never tell anything false or untrue. Any exaggeration would fall under the category of false testimony. Picture us at age seventeen, talking to our friends on the telephone, giving our version of this story and that. Hopefully he never had time to fish and tell stories about the one that got away either. We can give him a check mark if he insists, but you better give me an X.
“Honor your father and mother” Let’s see. I hardly ever dishonored mine to their faces, but does it count if, behind their backs, I did a few things they told me not to do? Oops. Go ahead and give the wonder boy a check mark, but I get another X.
How did you fare throughout our game? Shall we call you perfection personified? Or is your halo slipping a bit? If we get honest, most of us will have to say, “I was thrown out of the game in the first inning, quarter, or whatever.”
Boy, am I thankful for a Savior! The rich young ruler needed one too. His good track record had certainly fogged up his mirror. Don’t get me wrong. I like him. I’m even impressed with him, but I’d rather be saved than be like him!
“YOU STILL LACK ONE THING.” (V. 22)
Christ’s response to the rich young ruler’s claim is best understood in Matthew 19:21: “Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’”
If this were a game show, the bell indicating the mention of the secret word would have just sounded. Eternal life with God demands perfection. Someone has to be perfect. Either us or someone who stands in for us and that would be Jesus. This man wanted so badly for it to be him. As good as he had been and as hard as he had tried, he was still lacking. Christ then stuck a pin in the rich young ruler’s Achilles’ heel: his possessions.
One of the primary purposes of this divine pinprick was to show the man he wasn’t perfect nor would he ever be. I really believe a second purpose may have been to offer an authentic invitation for the searching young man to follow Him. Remember, Jesus didn’t have only twelve disciples. He had twelve apostles among a greater number of disciples. If the rich young ruler had done what Christ suggested, could he have followed Him? Certainly!
He simply needed to lighten his load and be free of wealth’s encumbrances. A truckful of possessions would have proved cumbersome.
I also believe Christ had a purely benevolent purpose for the seemingly harsh demand. Jesus looked at this young man and saw a prisoner. The man wasn’t really the ruler. His possessions were. Jesus pointed him to the only path to freedom. Sometimes when our possessions have us, we have to get rid of them to be free. False Doctrine can be the same way.
Of course, Christ knew in advance what the young man would choose. When it comes right down to it, we all follow our “god” until we accept Jesus and follow him.
My point is if we going to use scripture to prove a point we at least should use the scripture correctly. Which didn't happen in the above post that I'm responding to.
Aeliana
Well-known member
It sounds like you're talking about perseverance of the Saints and that's completely different from eternal security.
Diserner
Well-known member
Ezra
Well-known member
m puzzled why I've never been tempted to believe in eternal security. I'm sure it could be appealing, and I have had as much performance struggles as anyone.. the security of our salvation is there kept by the power of God. but its not a license to sin... if one is using it as that then thats not the security
Diserner
Well-known member
Trusting God is by definition, an act of the will. You have to do it, you have to trust.
If you want the ultimate security of not having any options, you have to eliminate free will altogether.
Ezra
Well-known member
Azriel
Well-known member
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 5:24
As a believer, you will never be judged for your sins. That is a settled issue. It is so settled in the mind of God that at the moment of your salvation, knowing full and well all the sins you were yet to commit, God adopted you into His family
John 5:24
As a believer, you will never be judged for your sins. That is a settled issue. It is so settled in the mind of God that at the moment of your salvation, knowing full and well all the sins you were yet to commit, God adopted you into His family
Azriel
Well-known member
"absolute elimination of all free will" Sounds a lot like Calvinism...Just saying.
Azriel
Well-known member
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.
Ephesians 1:3–5
Who's will? His will. Not a lot of free will there.
God chose to adopt you as His child before the foundation of the world. Why? For one reason and one reason only: He wanted to. That is what Paul means by the phrase, “according to the kind intention of His will.” No one forced Him. God wanted you as His child.
Ephesians 1:3–5
Who's will? His will. Not a lot of free will there.
God chose to adopt you as His child before the foundation of the world. Why? For one reason and one reason only: He wanted to. That is what Paul means by the phrase, “according to the kind intention of His will.” No one forced Him. God wanted you as His child.
civic
Well-known member
It’s not which is why there was no scripture reference
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