Eternal Security

[dwight92070]

Baptism doesn't save you. What about the thief on the cross? He was saved and he didn't do any good works or get baptized. All he did was believe Jesus was the Promised Messiah.

What a disappointment you OSAS people are! After WORKING HARD on this post, and making some accurate Biblical statements, the ONLY RESPONSE is Khazar, who wants to argue about baptism, WHICH IS NOT EVEN THE TOPIC WE'RE DISCUSSING.

I can only assume that nobody out there can Biblically refute THE OTHER POINTS that were made.

 

[Ray]

By the way, all of you who are teaching OSAS and "Eternal Security" and teaching against "Works Salvation", do you realize your teaching is A WORK?

"The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially THOSE WHO WORK HARD AT PREACHING AND TEACHING. 1 Timothy 5:17

Aren't you concerned that when you WORK HARD at teaching against "Works salvation", that you might be trying TO EARN YOUR SALVATION?

I am working so hard... give me another drink of water. I just got through burying a big load of work salvation. I'm making the world a better place environmentally.

 

[Doug Brents]

What a disappointment you OSAS people are! After WORKING HARD on this post, and making some accurate Biblical statements, the ONLY RESPONSE is Khazar, who wants to argue about baptism, WHICH IS NOT EVEN THE TOPIC WE'RE DISCUSSING.

I can only assume that nobody out there can Biblically refute THE OTHER POINTS that were made.

I am working so hard... give me another drink of water. I just got through burying a big load of work salvation. I'm making the world a better place environmentally.

Gentlemen, please let's get back to what Scripture says, not debating meaningless ideas ("works" salvation), or slinging mud. Scripture says that we cannot earn salvation because it was a gift given before the world was created (1 Pet 1:20). But it also says that we must qualify to receive it by meeting the conditions God placed upon its reception (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 22:16, Rom 10:9-10).

 

[Ray]

Did you notice in the New Testament that Jesus commands a PARTICULAR GOOD WORK for new believers? It's called BAPTISM.

Seems like you were the one that brought it up first

Khazar, who wants to argue about baptism, WHICH IS NOT EVEN THE TOPIC WE'RE DISCUSSING.

 

[Ray]

Gentlemen, please let's get back to what Scripture says, not debating meaningless ideas ("works" salvation), or slinging mud. Scripture says that we cannot earn salvation because it was a gift given before the world was created (1 Pet 1:20). But it also says that we must qualify to receive it by meeting the conditions God placed upon its reception (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 22:16, Rom 10:9-10).

Now that's good advice. But I still have a problem with meeting certain conditions to receive a free gift. I hate to bring up the dreaded W word but me certain conditions to me means jumping through hoops and accomplishing certain things. Let's take a look at the scriptures you posted.

He who believes [who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] and is baptized will be saved [from the penalty of eternal death]; but he who does not believe [who does not adhere to and trust in and rely on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] will be condemned. Mk 16:16.
Pretty straightforward, You believe in Jesus. and you're saved. No extracurricular activity.

And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac ts2:38.

Nothing we do there either that's baptism of the Holy Spirit that happens automatically believers. We are Filled with the Spirit And become members of the body of Christ.

In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).
12 [Thus you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.
13 And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross. Col 2:11–14.

I don't see anything man does there either.

WHAT SHALL we say [to all this]? Are we to remain in sin in order that God’s grace (favor and mercy) may multiply and overflow?
2 Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
3 Are you ignorant of the fact that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Ro 6:1–3.

Nothing there either.

21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1 Pe 3:21.

If you take that to me water baptism after salvation then the definition would be from the above scripture "An outward sign of an inward conversion". It means just what it says we're demonstrating that we're believers by getting baptized. That doesn't make us a believer no matter how many times you get baptized.

And now, why do you delay? Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name, wash away your sins
Acts 22:16.

What washes away the sins? Calling on his name believing him. That's our faith. Remember by faith and not by works.


Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ro 10:9.

I'll give you this one that's a definite condition. Good old Paul he always knows what he's talking about.

So one out of the seven will still get you to heaven.

 

[dwight92070]

Seems like you were the one that brought it up first

That was a side point, or an add-on, but the main subject of calling Jesus Lord, but then not doing (the works) that He commands was ignored. Maybe you could answer that?

 

[Ray]

That was a side point, or an add-on, but the main subject of calling Jesus Lord, but then not doing (the works) that He commands was ignored. Maybe you could answer that?

I could try, if Jesus is Lord of your life you automatically would want to do good works. It's the old expression we do good works because we are saved not to get saved. We love Jesus so much for what he's done for us and the fact that we're being transformed into his image from glory to glory and we are part of the body of Christ of course we want to do our share.

I've always worked at every church I've ever attended. I've gone on all the outreaches, run the cameras worked on the web page and on and on and on. But I don't believe that makes me a better Christian than anyone else. If someone accepts Jesus and... and they come to church on Sunday maybe pray and watch TBN or something and that's all they do they're still saves.

Okay so I've attempted to answer your question I also have a question. What are the good works that you do? What do you do that Jesus commanded us to do? I'm not trying to point the finger at you or anything like that I would just like to have your opinion of your salvation and what you do to make sure that Jesus is Lord of your life. Is there a specific thing that you do for Jesus?

 

[dwight92070]

Now that's good advice. But I still have a problem with meeting certain conditions to receive a free gift. I hate to bring up the dreaded W word but me certain conditions to me means jumping through hoops and accomplishing certain things. Let's take a look at the scriptures you posted.

He who believes [who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] and is baptized will be saved [from the penalty of eternal death]; but he who does not believe [who does not adhere to and trust in and rely on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] will be condemned. Mk 16:16.
Pretty straightforward, You believe in Jesus. and you're saved. No extracurricular activity.

And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac ts2:38.

Nothing we do there either that's baptism of the Holy Spirit that happens automatically believers. We are Filled with the Spirit And become members of the body of Christ.

In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).
12 [Thus you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.
13 And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross. Col 2:11–14.

I don't see anything man does there either.

WHAT SHALL we say [to all this]? Are we to remain in sin in order that God’s grace (favor and mercy) may multiply and overflow?
2 Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
3 Are you ignorant of the fact that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Ro 6:1–3.

Nothing there either.

21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1 Pe 3:21.

If you take that to me water baptism after salvation then the definition would be from the above scripture "An outward sign of an inward conversion". It means just what it says we're demonstrating that we're believers by getting baptized. That doesn't make us a believer no matter how many times you get baptized.

And now, why do you delay? Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name, wash away your sins
Acts 22:16.

What washes away the sins? Calling on his name believing him. That's our faith. Remember by faith and not by works.


Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ro 10:9.

I'll give you this one that's a definite condition. Good old Paul he always knows what he's talking about.

So one out of the seven will still get you to heaven.

I have to disagree with you on your comments, Doug, even though we seem to agree on the main issue. "Meaningless ideas?" "Works salvation" is what the OSAS people believe those of us who disagree with them, are engaged in. So that's exactly what I was discussing - it's not meaningless - it's what they were talking about. As far as getting back to Scripture, I put forward Luke 6:46 ("Why do you call me LORD, and do not DO what I say?"), Matthew 7:24-27 (building our house on the rock by DOING what Jesus commands), and 1 Timothy 5:17 9 (Preaching and teaching is ITSELF a work) Each time we type out a post, we are DOING A WORK. I'm not slinging mud - I'm making Biblical points.

 

[dwight92070]

I am working so hard... give me another drink of water. I just got through burying a big load of work salvation. I'm making the world a better place environmentally.

You can mock me if you want, but teaching, researching the scripture, checking cross references, studying the topics, looking up meanings in the dictionary or the concordance, etc. IS WORK, just like 1 Timothy 5:17 says it is. Ask a pastor or teacher who's been at it for years, if it's work or not.

 

[Ray]

I have to disagree with you on your comments, Doug, even though we seem to agree on the main issue. "Meaningless ideas?" "Works salvation" is what the OSAS people believe those of us who disagree with them, are engaged in. So that's exactly what I was discussing - it's not meaningless - it's what they were talking about. As far as getting back to Scripture, I put forward Luke 6:46 ("Why do you call me LORD, and do not DO what I say?"), Matthew 7:24-27 (building our house on the rock by DOING what Jesus commands), and 1 Timothy 5:17 9 (Preaching and teaching is ITSELF a work) Each time we type out a post, we are DOING A WORK. I'm not slinging mud - I'm making Biblical points.

I'm not Doug... But you can call me Ray.

 

[Doug Brents]

I am not sure if you are the one adding the comments in brackets or if that is something coming from your particular translation of Scripture, but many of them do not accurately convey what the terms they intend to accent mean.

Now that's good advice. But I still have a problem with meeting certain conditions to receive a free gift. I hate to bring up the dreaded W word but me certain conditions to me means jumping through hoops and accomplishing certain things. Let's take a look at the scriptures you posted.

He who believes [who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] and is baptized will be saved [from the penalty of eternal death]; but he who does not believe [who does not adhere to and trust in and rely on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] will be condemned. Mk 16:16.
Pretty straightforward, You believe in Jesus. and you're saved. No extracurricular activity.

"Believes" is not a passive term here. It comes from the Greek pistis which is faith which James 2 tells us is an action word (without action it is dead). If we do not take action on our intellectual assent, then we don't really believe or trust.

Further, you skip over "and is baptized" which again is an action that is required to receive the "will be saved". These are linked in that both are actions the person must take (not actions taken by another (the Holy Spirit)), and they are both conditions on the reception of the blessing (saved).

And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac ts2:38.

Nothing we do there either that's baptism of the Holy Spirit that happens automatically believers. We are Filled with the Spirit And become members of the body of Christ.

These men asked, "What shall WE do?" The baptism here is something these people had to do (water immersion). This is not Spirit baptism which only occurred twice in all history (Pentecost and Cornelius).

In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).
12 [Thus you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.
13 And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross. Col 2:11–14.

I don't see anything man does there either.

The spiritual circumcision occurs during baptism which is when we were buried with Christ and arise out of the water a new creation because of our faith in Christ (emphasis added).

WHAT SHALL we say [to all this]? Are we to remain in sin in order that God’s grace (favor and mercy) may multiply and overflow?
2 Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
3 Are you ignorant of the fact that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Ro 6:1–3.

Nothing there either.

Adding verse 4
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life.
It is in baptism (water immersion) that we become "in Christ", and put on Christ. And it baptism we die with Christ spiritually so that we can be raised with Him by the Holy Spirit.

21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1 Pe 3:21.

If you take that to me water baptism after salvation then the definition would be from the above scripture "An outward sign of an inward conversion". It means just what it says we're demonstrating that we're believers by getting baptized. That doesn't make us a believer no matter how many times you get baptized.

"who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1 Pet 3:20-21
This passage states that it is baptism in water (water immersion) that is the point at which one is saved. It is not Spirit baptism, because in the only two times that ever occurred it did not take place in or around water.

And it does not say anything about being baptized after you are saved. It says that as the water of the Flood saved the 8 in the Ark because of their faith in building the Ark, "baptism now saves you" because of our faith in the resurrection of Jesus.

And now, why do you delay? Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name, wash away your sins
Acts 22:16.

What washes away the sins? Calling on his name believing him. That's our faith. Remember by faith and not by works.

If his sins were washed away by believing then he would have been sin free at this point, because he believed on the Road to Damascus three days earlier. Yet, he was still in his sin, and was commanded to go be baptized. If this were "Spirit baptism" then the Spirit could take action while Saul was sitting there. Saul would not have needed to move.

Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ro 10:9.

I'll give you this one that's a definite condition. Good old Paul he always knows what he's talking about.

So one out of the seven will still get you to heaven.

LOL!

 

[Doug Brents]

I have to disagree with you on your comments, Doug, even though we seem to agree on the main issue. "Meaningless ideas?" "Works salvation" is what the OSAS people believe those of us who disagree with them, are engaged in. So that's exactly what I was discussing - it's not meaningless - it's what they were talking about. As far as getting back to Scripture, I put forward Luke 6:46 ("Why do you call me LORD, and do not DO what I say?"), Matthew 7:24-27 (building our house on the rock by DOING what Jesus commands), and 1 Timothy 5:17 9 (Preaching and teaching is ITSELF a work) Each time we type out a post, we are DOING A WORK. I'm not slinging mud - I'm making Biblical points.

I was only referencing those two posts I quoted. I apologize if I offended. It appeared to me that you two were deviating from Biblical discussion to a unprofitable tangent. Forgive me if I was wrong.

 

[dwight92070]

I could try, if Jesus is Lord of your life you automatically would want to do good works. It's the old expression we do good works because we are saved not to get saved. We love Jesus so much for what he's done for us and the fact that we're being transformed into his image from glory to glory and we are part of the body of Christ of course we want to do our share.

I've always worked at every church I've ever attended. I've gone on all the outreaches, run the cameras worked on the web page and on and on and on. But I don't believe that makes me a better Christian than anyone else. If someone accepts Jesus and... and they come to church on Sunday maybe pray and watch TBN or something and that's all they do they're still saves.

Okay so I've attempted to answer your question I also have a question. What are the good works that you do? What do you do that Jesus commanded us to do? I'm not trying to point the finger at you or anything like that I would just like to have your opinion of your salvation and what you do to make sure that Jesus is Lord of your life. Is there a specific thing that you do for Jesus?

Being obedient to Jesus doesn't make me or anyone a better Christian than anyone else. Jesus said, "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'" Luke 17:7-10
I pray each day, I confess and ask His forgiveness for any sins each day, I forgive others in my heart who have sinned against me each day, I fast at different times, I give to poor and sick people, primarily overseas, where they are very needy, I give to our pastor weekly, and I help support a radio Bible teacher (who I listen to daily) monthly, read and study His word each day, and sometimes prepare a teaching, I go to a home church fellowship each Sunday, and frequently do things socially with them, as well as ministry with them, and have for over two decades now. My wife and I have visited sick and lonely people, either relatives or from our church. On occasion, I teach at our home church, because I believe He has called me to do that. I lead our fellowship in singing a new song from time to time or in just singing a solo. We are also involved in a weekly Bible study with Christians who are not part of our church, who live nearby. Each Wednesday night, our home church meets via ZOOM to pray for our specific needs. I try to exercise each day to keep this body fit, but I need to do better at that. We constantly pray for our country, our five children and spouses, one grandchild, and one on the way. I participate in this Bible forum and another one that I have been with since 2011. I read Christian books or conservative books to sharpen my mind and try to keep up with current events as much as possible. I like to search for answers regarding what the Bible teaches or says that relates to many issues, from Communism to Capitalism, monopolies, climate change, the Deity of Jesus, the end times events, capital punishment, socialism, racism, wokism, the Law of Moses, Calvinism, Dispensationalism, OSAS, etc.

 

[Doug Brents]

Being obedient to Jesus doesn't make me or anyone a better Christian than anyone else. Jesus said, "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'" Luke 17:7-10

Being obedient to Christ is what makes a person a follower of Christ in the first place. A slave who does not do his master's bidding is worthless, is punished, and if he continues to disobey he is either sold or destroyed for failure to do what he was commanded. Yes, doing what we are commanded is our duty, and simply what we ought to do if we belong to Christ. But if we do not do what Christ says, we do not belong to Christ in the first place.

I pray each day, I confess and ask His forgiveness for any sins each day, I forgive others in my heart who have sinned against me each day, I fast at different times, I give to poor and sick people, primarily overseas, where they are very needy, I give to our pastor weekly, and I help support a radio Bible teacher (who I listen to daily) monthly, read and study His word each day, and sometimes prepare a teaching, I go to a home church fellowship each Sunday, and frequently do things socially with them, as well as ministry with them, and have for over two decades now. My wife and I have visited sick and lonely people, either relatives or from our church. On occasion, I teach at our home church, because I believe He has called me to do that. I lead our fellowship in singing a new song from time to time or in just singing a solo. We are also involved in a weekly Bible study with Christians who are not part of our church, who live nearby. Each Wednesday night, our home church meets via ZOOM to pray for our specific needs. I try to exercise each day to keep this body fit, but I need to do better at that. We constantly pray for our country, our five children and spouses, one grandchild, and one on the way. I participate in this Bible forum and another one that I have been with since 2011. I read Christian books or conservative books to sharpen my mind and try to keep up with current events as much as possible. I like to search for answers regarding what the Bible teaches or says that relates to many issues, from Communism to Capitalism, monopolies, climate change, the Deity of Jesus, the end times events, capital punishment, socialism, racism, wokism, the Law of Moses, Calvinism, Dispensationalism, OSAS, etc.

All of this is commendable, but these are all things are "good works", and good works are what Scripture says "flow from" having been saved. These are not things that Scripture says lead to being saved.

 

[dwight92070]

Being obedient to Christ is what makes a person a follower of Christ in the first place. A slave who does not do his master's bidding is worthless, is punished, and if he continues to disobey he is either sold or destroyed for failure to do what he was commanded. Yes, doing what we are commanded is our duty, and simply what we ought to do if we belong to Christ. But if we do not do what Christ says, we do not belong to Christ in the first place.

Or, IMO, if we belong to Christ, and then later decide, because we have a free will, that we don't want to obey Him, we no longer belong to Him.
I recently heard of a pastor in Wyoming, who was the pastor of a couple who have been attending our church for years - who was faithful for many years, but decided that he wanted another woman besides his wife. He left his wife and children, and now, again because he had the freedom to make that choice to leave, he no longer belongs to Christ.

All of this is commendable, but these are all things are "good works", and good works are what Scripture says "flow from" having been saved. These are not things that Scripture says lead to being saved.

I understand that and that's what Ray asked me to tell him, so I did. What do I do that Jesus commands me to do? And what do I do to make sure that Jesus is the Lord of my life?

First off, I was born again in September of 1970. Since then, by God's grace and help, I have willingly followed Him and obeyed Him, not without some sins along the way, but He is faithful and just to forgive me when I confess. 1 John 1:9

"Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things (good works), you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." 2 Peter 1:10-11

If I ever come to the point where I stop PRACTICING the list of things in verses 5-7, then there's no guarantee that I will not stumble or that I will enter that eternal kingdom.

 

[Lily]

Being obedient to Jesus doesn't make me or anyone a better Christian than anyone else. Jesus said, "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'" Luke 17:7-10
I pray each day, I confess and ask His forgiveness for any sins each day, I forgive others in my heart who have sinned against me each day, I fast at different times, I give to poor and sick people, primarily overseas, where they are very needy, I give to our pastor weekly, and I help support a radio Bible teacher (who I listen to daily) monthly, read and study His word each day, and sometimes prepare a teaching, I go to a home church fellowship each Sunday, and frequently do things socially with them, as well as ministry with them, and have for over two decades now. My wife and I have visited sick and lonely people, either relatives or from our church. On occasion, I teach at our home church, because I believe He has called me to do that. I lead our fellowship in singing a new song from time to time or in just singing a solo. We are also involved in a weekly Bible study with Christians who are not part of our church, who live nearby. Each Wednesday night, our home church meets via ZOOM to pray for our specific needs. I try to exercise each day to keep this body fit, but I need to do better at that. We constantly pray for our country, our five children and spouses, one grandchild, and one on the way. I participate in this Bible forum and another one that I have been with since 2011. I read Christian books or conservative books to sharpen my mind and try to keep up with current events as much as possible. I like to search for answers regarding what the Bible teaches or says that relates to many issues, from Communism to Capitalism, monopolies, climate change, the Deity of Jesus, the end times events, capital punishment, socialism, racism, wokism, the Law of Moses, Calvinism, Dispensationalism, OSAS, etc.

Sounds like good stuff.

 

[dwight92070]

Or, IMO, if we belong to Christ, and then later decide, because we have a free will, that we don't want to obey Him, we no longer belong to Him.
I recently heard of a pastor in Wyoming, who was the pastor of a couple who have been attending our church for years - who was faithful for many years, but decided that he wanted another woman besides his wife. He left his wife and children, and now, again because he had the freedom to make that choice to leave, he no longer belongs to Christ.

I understand that and that's what Ray asked me to tell him, so I did. What do I do that Jesus commands me to do? And what do I do to make sure that Jesus is the Lord of my life?

First off, I was born again in September of 1970. Since then, by God's grace and help, I have willingly followed Him and obeyed Him, not without some sins along the way, but He is faithful and just to forgive me when I confess. 1 John 1:9

"Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things (good works), you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." 2 Peter 1:10-11

If I ever come to the point where I stop PRACTICING the list of things in verses 5-7, then there's no guarantee that I will not stumble or that I will enter that eternal kingdom.

Now that's good advice. But I still have a problem with meeting certain conditions to receive a free gift. I hate to bring up the dreaded W word but me certain conditions to me means jumping through hoops and accomplishing certain things. Let's take a look at the scriptures you posted.

He who believes [who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] and is baptized will be saved [from the penalty of eternal death]; but he who does not believe [who does not adhere to and trust in and rely on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] will be condemned. Mk 16:16.
Pretty straightforward, You believe in Jesus. and you're saved. No extracurricular activity.

And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac ts2:38.

Nothing we do there either that's baptism of the Holy Spirit that happens automatically believers. We are Filled with the Spirit And become members of the body of

Christ.

In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).
12 [Thus you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.
13 And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross. Col 2:11–14.

I don't see anything man does there either.

WHAT SHALL we say [to all this]? Are we to remain in sin in order that God’s grace (favor and mercy) may multiply and overflow?
2 Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
3 Are you ignorant of the fact that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Ro 6:1–3.

Nothing there either.

21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1 Pe 3:21.

If you take that to me water baptism after salvation then the definition would be from the above scripture "An outward sign of an inward conversion". It means just what it says we're demonstrating that we're believers by getting baptized. That doesn't make us a believer no matter how many times you get baptized.

And now, why do you delay? Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name, wash away your sins
Acts 22:16.

What washes away the sins? Calling on his name believing him. That's our faith. Remember by faith and not by works.


Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ro 10:9.

I'll give you this one that's a definite condition. Good old Paul he always knows what he's talking about.

So one out of the seven will still get you to heaven.

Sounds like good stuff.

We are taught to think of being born again or being saved as entering a large group of people, all of which have been rescued from the destination of hell and now have a ticket to heaven. But this first spiritual step is just the door into salvation. This new birth is called being justified, that is, having our sins forgiven because of the shed blood of Jesus. But that's just the beginning of our saved life. We have been tranferred out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light - out of being ruled by Satan into being under the new leadership and LORDship of Jesus. He is the King, our King now, and He does have commands for those of us in His kingdom to obey, while we're still on earth. In His kingdom, Jesus has plans for us here and now, not just for later when we get to heaven. We must go through the process of santification, where we "unlearn" worldly ways, and learn His ways. We are in a spiritual war and we are to be soldiers in His army, so we must be trained. We take our marching orders from Jesus, as our new Lord and King. We must be obedient, so that we can bear fruit for God right now, before we go on to heaven. He is also a GOOD SHEPHERD, leading us as His sheep. Even though we are in a battle, He loves us and dwells in us and wants to have fellowship with us, and us with Him, as He leads us through this life. As we abide in Him and in His love, we could say that our relationship with Him IS salvation. But because He is a God of love, He has given us freedom to make our own decisions. If we ever choose to leave Him, He will not stop us, even though He may make appeals to us to stay with Him.

 

[Wholeheart]

We must never forget that the faithfulness required of us—and make no mistake: it is required—is precisely what God is faithful to provide. Yes, we do have to remain faithful to persevere. And, yes, the power and incentive to do so is what God pledges to produce in us and through us.

God doesn’t merely call his people to sanctification or point them in the direction they should go. He faithfully supplies every need, all the power, every incentive, and whatever spiritual resolve is needed so that each of us who knows Jesus truly will finally stand in his presence blameless and whole.

In the end everything depends on the single reality that God is absolutely faithful.

 

[Ezra]

We are taught to think of being born again or being saved as entering a large group of people, all of which have been rescued from the destination of hell and now have a ticket to heaven. But this first spiritual step is just the door into salvation. This new birth is called being justified, that is, having our sins forgiven because of the shed blood of Jesus. But that's just the beginning of our saved life. We have been tranferred out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light - out of being ruled by Satan into being under the new leadership and LORDship of Jesus. He is the King, our King now, and He does have commands for those of us in His kingdom to obey, while we're still on earth. In His kingdom, Jesus has plans for us here and now, not just for later when we get to heaven. We must go through the process of santification, where we "unlearn" worldly ways, and learn His ways. We are in a spiritual war and we are to be soldiers in His army, so we must be trained. We take our marching orders from Jesus, as our new Lord and King. We must be obedient, so that we can bear fruit for God right now, before we go on to heaven. He is also a GOOD SHEPHERD, leading us as His sheep. Even though we are in a battle, He loves us and dwells in us and wants to have fellowship with us, and us with Him, as He leads us through this life. As we abide in Him and in His love, we could say that our relationship with Him IS salvation. But because He is a God of love, He has given us freedom to make our own decisions. If we ever choose to leave Him, He will not stop us, even though He may make appeals to us to stay with Him.

please dont fall out of your chair

jude 24-25

King James Version

​

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. what your posting is about half rtight the rest is legalism--works we do

 

[Theophilus]

I believe whatever God starts he finishes.

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6

Excellent, short and sweet. How do you possibly get around that one?

Yes Sir, whatever God starts, he finishes! Good stuff. That is Paul’s point in Philippians 1:6. The “good work” initiated in the hearts of the Philippian believers will not fall short of the final goal. The new birth, made real in them through the Holy Spirit, will not suffer interruption and fail to produce the good works and obedience that testify to the reality of what they claim. Jesus does it all from first to last. All we need to do is be obedient servants. He has paid the price for salvation and our eternal security.

God promises that he “will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ,” which means that whatever is required along the pathway of our Christian lives, whatever faith is needed, whatever obedience is required, whatever repentance is called for, and whatever endurance we must display, God will work in us through his Spirit so that we will stand before his presence, wholly sanctified in body, soul, and spirit, blameless and without reproach. I am as sure of this as Paul is: “And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ”

Case Closed!