Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Johann]

No we are not. You deny Salvation by Grace. Whenever a person promotes salvation for all mankind that's a serious error. And Im sure you meant something different by service than I did.

Nope, I'm not in denial of salvation by grace.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this (+) is not from yourselves, (+) it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 (+) it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that we may walk in them.


Eph 2:8 For by unmerited Chen v'Chesed Hashem you have been delivered from Hashem's Mishpat (Judgment) and granted a share in the Geulah (Redemption), through emunah; and this is not [an ainfal (intuitive idea)] of yourselves, it is a matnat Hashem (gift of G-d);
Eph 2:9 Not the result [of the zchus (merit)] of doing ma’asim (works) [Ac 15:1; Ga 5:3 4], so that before Hashem no man should be a ravrevan (boaster, braggart). [DEVARIM 9:5]
Eph 2:10 For we are His masterpiece, having been created in Moshiach Yehoshua for ma'asim tovim, which Hashem prepared beforehand, that the derech of our halakhah should be in them.[YESHAYAH 29:23; 42:7; 60:21;]


Eph 2:8 For [it is] γὰρ - Τῇ by grace χάριτί you have been ἐστε saved σεσῳσμένοι through διὰ faith, πίστεως· and καὶ this τοῦτο not οὐκ from ἐξ yourselves; ὑμῶν, [it is] the τὸ gift δῶρον· of God, Θεοῦ
Eph 2:9 not οὐκ by ἐξ works, ἔργων, so that ἵνα no μή one τις can boast. καυχήσηται.
Eph 2:10 For γάρ we are ἐσμεν [God’s] αὐτοῦ workmanship, ποίημα, created κτισθέντες in ἐν Christ Χριστῷ Jesus Ἰησοῦ to do ἐπὶ good ἀγαθοῖς, works, ἔργοις which οἷς - ὁ God Θεὸς prepared in advance προητοίμασεν as ἵνα our way of life περιπατήσωμεν. . . . ἐν . . . . αὐτοῖς


להראות בדרות הבאים את־גדלת עשר חסדו בטובתו עלינו במשיח ישוע׃
כי־בחסד נושעתם על־ידי האמונה ולא מידכם היתה זאת כי־מתת אלהים היא׃
לא מתוך המעשים שלא יתהלל איש׃
כי־פעל אלהים אנחנו נבראים במשיח ישוע למעשים טובים אשר הכין האלהים מקדם למען נתהלך

Eph 2:5 και οντας ημας νεκρους τοις παραπτωμασιν συνεζωοποιησεν τω χριστω χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι
Eph 2:6 και συνηγειρεν και συνεκαθισεν εν τοις επουρανιοις εν χριστω ιησου
Eph 2:7 ινα ενδειξηται εν τοις αιωσιν τοις επερχομενοις τον υπερβαλλοντα πλουτον της χαριτος αυτου εν χρηστοτητι εφ ημας εν χριστω ιησου
Eph 2:8 τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον

J.

 

[civic]

No we are not. You deny Salvation by Grace. Whenever a person promotes salvation for all mankind that's a serious error. And Im sure you meant something different by service than I did.

Projecting again

 

[brightfame52]

@Johann

Nope, I'm not in denial of salvation by grace.

Sure you are, if you believe salvation is for all mankind. Dont you believe that ? Grace means a remnant will be saved.

 

[Johann]

@Johann



Sure you are, if you believe salvation is for all mankind. Dont you believe that ? Grace means a remnant will be saved.

I don't embrace Calvin and his Institutes friend, plenty of that going around-no hope for the sinner, no hope for a lost and dying world, no gospel.

J.

 

[Doug Brents]

Sure you are, if you believe salvation is for all mankind. Dont you believe that ? Grace means a remnant will be saved.

Grace just means an unmerited gift.
Everyone who has ever lived has the opportunity to receive grace, but not everyone will choose to accept it. Everyone could be saved, but not everyone will be saved. God's gift is there and accessible to everyone, but not everyone will open their hearts, surrender their pride and will, and accept God's gift. You and Calvin want to put that failing on God, but He is not to blame when people do not accept Him. He loved us first, and He will only accept those who love Him more than they love themselves.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't embrace Calvin and his Institutes friend, plenty of that going around-no hope for the sinner, no hope for a lost and dying world, no gospel.

J.

I never read calvin institutes,however I know if someone believes Christ died to save all mankind, instead of dying and saving exclusively Gods elect, they embrace a false gospel. They deny Grace

 

[brightfame52]

Grace just means an unmerited gift.
Everyone who has ever lived has the opportunity to receive grace, but not everyone will choose to accept it. Everyone could be saved, but not everyone will be saved. God's gift is there and accessible to everyone, but not everyone will open their hearts, surrender their pride and will, and accept God's gift. You and Calvin want to put that failing on God, but He is not to blame when people do not accept Him. He loved us first, and He will only accept those who love Him more than they love themselves.

That unmerited favor saves and is exclusive to only a remnant of mankind. Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[remnant] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Other than the remnant, the rest of mankind is hardened and that unto destruction

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

...but not everyone will open their hearts, surrender their pride and will, and accept God's gift. ...

I love to read this from you.
This is what God demands from people to be forgiven: God wants us to open our hearts, and surrender our pride and will.
There are millions of people of many religions and theologies who do not share your same beliefs, and yet they open their hearts, and surrender their pride and will, and get transformed into new beings.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I never read calvin institutes,however I know if someone believes Christ died to save all mankind, instead of dying and saving exclusively Gods elect, they embrace a false gospel. They deny Grace

What makes you think that they deny grace?
What have you observed in them?

 

[Doug Brents]

I love to read this from you.
This is what God demands from people to be forgiven: God wants us to open our hearts, and surrender our pride and will.
There are millions of people of many religions and theologies who do not share your same beliefs, and yet they open their hearts, and surrender their pride and will, and get transformed into new beings.

Surrendering our pride and will does not mean just sitting back and taking in what He has to give us. We also must take action of repentance, confessing Him as our Lord (our ONLY Lord), and being baptized into Him. And we must also not believe in all the things you think are ok, like also believing in the book or mormon or the quran, praying to humans (dead or alive) who are not God, following other religious leaders who are not God, etc.

 

[brightfame52]

What makes you think that they deny grace?
What have you observed in them?

Tulip is the Gospel of Gods Grace. Do you know what the acronym TULIP stands for ?

 

[brightfame52]

@Pancho Frijoles

God wants us to open our hearts,

God opens up hearts that He wants to believe the Truth from a faithful preacher Acts 16:14

14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Thats a Gift !

 

[brightfame52]

Many in our time will say that the scripture doesnt teach that some are chosen to Salvation,but it does,

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

What can be plainer than that ?

CD Cole writes:

The word election simply means choice, to select from among. In the case of our text in II Thessalonians 2:13, the Greek word "chosen" is in the second aorist tense, the middle voice, and indicative mood.

The second aorist places the emphasis on the action being a fact that exists, rather than in regard to time - we translate it in the past tense because the English language has no equivalent. The emphasis is that election is eternal. We will see that more clearly in other passages.

The middle voice indicates the subject performing an action for his own benefit. It emphasizes the fact that it is God that is doing the choosing and we are passive. It might be better illustrated by the phrasing used in Ephesians 1:4-8. "According to the good pleasure of His will." "According to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself." Understanding the word in this light is why we hold to the position of "unconditional" election. God does not elect man unto salvation because God foresaw who would and who would not believe. That simply makes man the sovereign and God the servant. Conditional election makes God's election unto salvation contingent upon man rather than finding its inception, purpose, and pleasure in God. The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact whether it has occurred, is occurring, or will occur. Each illustrates the act of election as an absolute and sovereign decree of God, not man.

The doctrine of election is "God's eternal and unconditional choice of certain individuals unto everlasting life." "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" (Ephesians 1:4). It means that God "set His choice upon certain individuals whom He gave to His Son, for whom Christ died, who in time hear the gospel and believe." (C. D. Cole). http://www.abaptistvoice.com/English/Articles/Grace/ABriefLookAtElection.htm

Also notice its the elect or chosen whom God calls by the Gospel for them to believe the Truth of it Vs 14

14 Whereunto he called you[the elect] by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation is given to a people whom God has chosen to reserve unto Himself Rom 11:4-7

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace/election, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace/election is no more grace/election. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace/election: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election/of grace hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Even though Election isn't experiential salvation per say,nevertheless its the foundation of all the Salvation a elect person will experience in his life and the next, for it guarantees the bestowal of every needed Spiritual Blessing we need to be saved Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The word chosen is the greek word ἐκλέγομαι:

to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self

Its in the middle voice , so it goes along with the idea that He chooses or reserves unto Himself.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

@Johann



Sure you are, if you believe salvation is for all mankind. Dont you believe that ? Grace means a remnant will be saved.

I am an example that it is entirely possible to believe in salvation by grace and for all mankind.

That different people get saved before others, and that we perceive such phenomenon, from our limited human perspective, as a selective salvation is a whole different story.
I invite you to consider that it is within God's Perfect Foresight that some people reject the gospel for a while, so that other people can benefit. The best example is what Paul described as a temporary situation of Israel for the benefit of Gentiles.

God has established the geographies and times for everyone to seek Him and reach out to Him and find Him.
Even is a single sheep remains astray, and 99 are already saved,the Shepherd will go after the lost one... and will succeed in bringing it back.

 

[brightfame52]

I am an example that it is entirely possible to believe in salvation by grace and for all mankind.

That different people get saved before others, and that we perceive such phenomenon, from our limited human perspective, as a selective salvation is a whole different story.
I invite you to consider that it is within God's Perfect Foresight that some people reject the gospel for a while, so that other people can benefit. The best example is what Paul described as a temporary situation of Israel for the benefit of Gentiles.

God has established the geographies and times for everyone to seek Him and reach out to Him and find Him.
Even is a single sheep remains astray, and 99 are already saved,the Shepherd will go after the lost one... and will succeed in bringing it back.

Grace means a remnant will be saved. Thats one of the offences of the Cross,it was only for a remnant, a seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

 

[brightfame52]

By unconditional election, we mean that the choice of God was not conditioned on anything within man. Since man was utterly sinful, there was nothing in him to attract the favor of God. Then too, the scriptures plainly declare that this choice is not by the will of man. John 1:13 says, "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." To say that election is conditioned on the foreseen faith of man, or any other act of his will would deny this plain passage as well as the rest of God's Word. Again we can say that election must be unconditional, for salvation is by grace; and, so could not be founded on anything in man for then it would be by works.https://www.mountzionpbc.org/Old%20School%20Baptist/The%20Doctrines%20of%20Grace%20By%20L.%20Bradley.pdf see whats new by By Pastor Lasserre Bradley, Jr.

 

[brightfame52]

Wow, your Jesus is more incompetent than I thought. Just like your god, who is not willing that any perish, yet most do.

Yet we can rest assured, if God isn't willing that something happens, then it simply will not happen !

 

[Fool4Christ]

Yet we can rest assured, if God isn't willing that something happens, then it simply will not happen !

The Lord does not delay the promise, as some esteem slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

That kicks the false doctrine of election to the curb.

 

[Ezra]

Unconditional Election...Ba humbug

What would you say if you discovered that people were saying of you and your newly-wedded spouse, I hear they are planning on having six children, five of whom they plan to cruelly torture all their lives, and one of whom they plan to treat kindly? Would you not be greatly offended that anyone would even entertain such an awful rumor? Yet that is what you are saying about God! You nullify His great attributes of love and justice with your doctrine!

How is it possible to reconcile unconditional election/damnation with the scores of scriptures that clearly state that God desires for all to be saved? Here is just a small sampling:

Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast (Matt. 22:9, emphasis added).
And [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation” (Mark 16:15, emphasis added).

I say these things that you [those who persecuted Him and wanted to kill Him; see John 5:16-18] may be saved (John 5:34, emphasis added). [And why were they not saved? Jesus explains in 5:40:] And you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life (emphasis added).

And [God] made from one, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times, and the boundaries of their habitation, that they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us (Acts 17:26-27).
Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent (Acts 17:30, emphasis added).

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time (1 Tim. 2:3-6, emphasis added).

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9, emphasis added).
And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14, emphasis added).

Anyone who believes these scriptures at face value must abandon the idea of unconditional election/damnation.