Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Yes the scriptures plainly teach election.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Romans 9:1-13
- that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Election refers to election for purpose, not election for salvation.
The context tells us what the purpose for election was, that Paul has in mind.
- who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came
The purpose of election of the Jews was to be the generational bloodline of the Messiah.
That is why the Jews are called the elect; they were elected for the purpose of being the bloodline lineage of Jesus Christ.
God desires for the elect to also obtain salvation.
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
Why would you even make such a request if you think that it could change nothing since it was all predetermined even before the creation of this world? That is like wishing someone a good journey after he had a head-on collision with a semi-truck and died.
brightfame52
Active Member
If so, then according to you that would have already been predestined and he wouldn't be setting forth the folly you accused him of being. According to you, he would have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16).
I posted the following in another thread, but I think it is appropriate here also.
I have a fundamental problem with the implications of the soteriology of Calvinism/Reformed Theology (C/RT) with respect to God, Himself. In a nutshell, C/RT says that God created this physical universe. In this creation God created mankind. There will be billions of human beings come into existence before it all ends. According to C/RT, God chose (elected) certain of those to be given eternal life. And God did that even before creation. The rest were necessarily by default eternally condemned. Since that election occurred before creation and had nothing whatsoever to do with the individuals, themselves, then there is absolutely nothing that the individuals can do to change their election. The selection of the saved and those not saved was forever fixed.
Those elected to salvation have been promised eternal life wherein there will no longer be any sin, sorrow, pain, anguish. or any of the unpleasantries of this earthly life. Those unelected have been promised just the opposite.
Now, Jesus Himself has declared that “the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many and the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few”. it is apparent, therefore, that the numbers condemned is much greater than the numbers saved.
Therefore, my question is why God has created this world in the first place. Why did God, at the very beginning, not simply create those he predestined to salvation, giving them eternal life free from all sin, sorrow, pain and anguish that is promised to them? Why create this world which would end up consigning the majority of human beings to eternal condemnation.
I would argue that God would not do such a thing. The C/RT description of what God has created is seriously flawed. In the C/RT description of creation God has created and consigned billions of human beings to eternal condemnation for no real reason whatsoever. The C/RT version presents God as cruel and unjust.
God has not created the world that C/RT has described.
I have a fundamental problem with the implications of the soteriology of Calvinism/Reformed Theology (C/RT) with respect to God, Himself. In a nutshell, C/RT says that God created this physical universe. In this creation God created mankind. There will be billions of human beings come into existence before it all ends. According to C/RT, God chose (elected) certain of those to be given eternal life. And God did that even before creation. The rest were necessarily by default eternally condemned. Since that election occurred before creation and had nothing whatsoever to do with the individuals, themselves, then there is absolutely nothing that the individuals can do to change their election. The selection of the saved and those not saved was forever fixed.
Those elected to salvation have been promised eternal life wherein there will no longer be any sin, sorrow, pain, anguish. or any of the unpleasantries of this earthly life. Those unelected have been promised just the opposite.
Now, Jesus Himself has declared that “the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many and the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few”. it is apparent, therefore, that the numbers condemned is much greater than the numbers saved.
Therefore, my question is why God has created this world in the first place. Why did God, at the very beginning, not simply create those he predestined to salvation, giving them eternal life free from all sin, sorrow, pain and anguish that is promised to them? Why create this world which would end up consigning the majority of human beings to eternal condemnation.
I would argue that God would not do such a thing. The C/RT description of what God has created is seriously flawed. In the C/RT description of creation God has created and consigned billions of human beings to eternal condemnation for no real reason whatsoever. The C/RT version presents God as cruel and unjust.
God has not created the world that C/RT has described.
brightfame52
Active Member
The condition for a person to be saved is Believe.
Those who believe are saved.
- lest they should believe and be saved.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
These by the wayside did indeed hear, but they didn’t believe.
Believe = Saved
Unconditional Election is not biblical.
We are all predestined for the purpose of being conformed to the image of God’s Son.
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:29
Seems like a really silly question.
The C/RT removes any rational reason for creation.Now you've gone and introduced logic into this discussion. That's not fair for calvinists. They have never agreed to using logic, just their inflamed imaginations.
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