Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Studyman]

@Studyman I don't miss the point of your sentence and of course I don't believe Jesus obedience to the Father was for men to create their own dogmas of man made religions and philosophies-there's enough of that going on here.
John 4:34

Text: "Jesus said to them, 'My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work.'"
Context: Jesus speaks to His disciples after conversing with the Samaritan woman at the well. His obedience to the Father’s will is described as His sustenance and purpose.
John 5:19

Text: "So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.'"
Context: In a discourse explaining His relationship with the Father, Jesus emphasizes His complete dependence on and alignment with the Father's actions.
John 6:38

Text: "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me."
Context: Jesus explains His mission to His followers, underscoring that He came to earth to fulfill the Father's will, not His own.
John 8:28-29

Text: "So Jesus said, 'When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.'"
Context: Jesus teaches about His divine mission and unity with the Father, showing His obedience and the Father's presence with Him.
John 14:31

Text: "But I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here."
Context: During the Last Supper, Jesus speaks to His disciples about His forthcoming actions, demonstrating His obedience as an expression of His love for the Father.
Philippians 2:8

Text: "And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
Context: Paul, in his letter to the Philippians, highlights Jesus’ ultimate act of obedience to the Father’s plan for redemption, through His sacrificial death on the cross.
Hebrews 5:8

Text: "Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered."
Context: The author of Hebrews points out that Jesus, despite being the Son of God, experienced and demonstrated perfect obedience through His suffering.

Reasons for Jesus' Obedience
To Fulfill God's Will: Jesus' mission was to accomplish the Father’s will, which included teaching, healing, and ultimately, providing salvation through His death and resurrection (John 6:38).

To Demonstrate His Relationship with the Father: Jesus' obedience highlighted His unique relationship with the Father, revealing His divine origin and mission (John 5:19; John 14:31).

To Model Perfect Obedience: Jesus served as a perfect example of obedience for His followers, showing the importance of submitting to God’s will (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:8).

To Achieve Redemption: Jesus’ obedience, even unto death, was crucial for the redemption of humanity, fulfilling the necessary sacrifice for sin (Philippians 2:8).

These scriptures collectively illustrate the depth and purpose of Jesus’ obedience to the Father, emphasizing His commitment to fulfilling the divine plan and providing a model for believers to follow.



Greek Word: ὑπακοή (Hypakoē)
Etymology:

Root Words:
ὑπό (hypo): under
ἀκούω (akouo): to hear
Literal Meaning: "to hear under," implying submission to what is heard.
Usage in Scripture
Philippians 2:8

Greek Text: καὶ εὑρεθεὶς ἐν σχήματι ὡς ἄνθρωπος ἐταπείνωσεν ἑαυτὸν γενόμενος ὑπήκοος (hypēkoos) μέχρι θανάτου, θανάτου δὲ σταυροῦ.
Translation: "And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
Word for Obedient: ὑπήκοος (hypēkoos), the adjective form related to ὑπακοή (hypakoē).
Hebrews 5:8

Greek Text: καίπερ ὢν υἱός, ἔμαθεν ἀφ' ὧν ἔπαθεν τὴν ὑπακοήν (hypakoēn).
Translation: "Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered."
Word for Obedience: ὑπακοήν (hypakoēn), the noun form.


Meaning and Context
ὑπακοή (hypakoē): This word emphasizes the concept of "obedience" as a response to hearing. In the context of Jesus' relationship with the Father, it signifies Jesus' willingness to submit to the Father's will, even unto death.


Context of Philippians 2:8: This passage highlights Jesus' humility and obedience in the incarnation and crucifixion. It shows the depth of Jesus' submission to the Father's plan for salvation.


Context of Hebrews 5:8: This passage explains that Jesus, although divine, experienced and learned obedience through His suffering, underscoring His complete submission to the Father's will.
Conclusion


The Greek word ὑπακοή (hypakoē) and its related forms ὑπακούω (hypakouo) and ὑπήκοος (hypēkoos) are used in the New Testament to describe Jesus' obedience to the Father. The etymology of ὑπακοή (hypakoē) reflects the idea of hearing under authority, which is central to understanding Jesus' relationship with the Father and His mission on earth.

--and not about establishing our righteousness, our "religion" and our "philosophies and opinions"

You may agree to disagree.
Johann

I agree, it's about submitting to God's Righteousness, not going about to establish our own. My words were in response to the popular religious philosophy that Jesus obeyed His Father so that His Father's children wouldn't have to obey Him.

Submitting to God's Righteousness, and not the religious doctrines and traditions of men which exist in the world God placed us in, which in many cases causes those who adopt them to "Transgress God's commandments", is not why Jesus obeyed, in my understanding.

Submission to God and His instruction in righteousness, is a way of life for those who place their faith in Him. Just as it was a way of Life for His Son, the man Jesus.

I'm not sure where my post left the impression that Jesus' obedience was about "establishing our righteousness, our "religion" and our "philosophies and opinions".

I agree with your findings "To Model Perfect Obedience: Jesus served as a perfect example of obedience for His followers, showing the importance of submitting to God’s will (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:8)."

 

[Studyman]

You continue to oppose the Gift of Righteousness in favor of your own, good luck with that in the day of judgment, you better hope it is as pure as Christs Law keeping Righteousness.

So you won't answer the question.

OK.

 

[Studyman]

Will Jesus say this to you ?

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Paul certainly hoped not.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[civic]

Paul certainly hoped not.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Amen

 

[brightfame52]

So you won't answer the question.

OK.

Okay see ya

 

[civic]

Okay see ya

You couldn’t teach in a Sunday school class because you couldn’t tell all the children in the class Jesus loves them and He died on the cross for their sins. It’s a false gospel , a false hope.

 

[Red Baker]

You couldn’t teach in a Sunday school class because you couldn’t tell all the children in the class Jesus loves them and He died on the cross for their sins. It’s a false gospel , a false hope.

What is Sunday School? Fathers are to teach their children/family the word of God and not leave that responsibility to others!

Moses commanded parents to “make known” (4:9), “teach” (6:7; 11:19), and “command” God's statutes to their children (32:46). It is important for parents to instruct their children in the Word of God, that their children may “hear and learn to fear Jehovah”~which is for their “good always”. ( Deut. 6:24)

The sum of Moses to Israel of old....."And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:"


Deuteronomy 4:9~"Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;"

Deuteronomy 6:7,8~"And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."

Deuteronomy 32"46~" And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law."

The twenty-first century professor has passed this duty on to others and we now see the result of this sinful practice. Paul said this:

1st Corinthians 14:34-"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Father's today are thinking about putting their sons into this, that, and the other, anything but teaching them the word of God, the most important duty of being a godly father. Grandfather's should teach their grandson's the word of God, it is their duty before God, and not passed it on to others. I have ten grandsons and I teach all them as much as I can, and they even call me from time to time and ask me about certain bible truths~the married ones do. I teach the girls as well, but more so the sons, who one day will be the head of their family.

tell all the children in the class Jesus loves them and He died on the cross for their sins. It’s a false gospel , a false hope.

I can tell anyone who loves God that God loves them, and did before they ever loved him. But, God does not love all folks without exception~do you think that there were babies that drown in the flood? Of course there were.

What is you feelings about such scriptures as these:

1 Samuel 15:3​

“Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.”

Exodus 12:29​

“And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.”

The total annihilation of Sodom and Gomorrah which included the children (Genesis 19:23-29), etc.

 

[Red Baker]

Perhaps this is the case with you, but not with me.

Duet. 2: 19 And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession.

Luke 17: 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

Why was Lot not turned to Salt, but his wife was? One was righteous in God's Eyes, and the other wasn't. This would only be hidden to those who hear God's Word, but don't believe Him.



I believe God's Word is also His Mercy. But "many" who have received His Word, will not receive His Mercy in the context of Salvation. And I believe what HE says, even if you or others don't.

Ex. 20: 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

"Many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, need God's Mercy to also be granted to men who Transgress God's commandments by their own religious traditions. Those Christians in Matt. 7:22 had adopted the same religious philosophy.

For me, I am happy to believe God when HE tells me HE shows Mercy to those who "Yield themselves" servants to obey Him, like Paul teaches.

After all, in ALL the examples of faith, Inspired by God and written for our admonition, it is clearly shown; "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."



LOL,

Doesn't God call everyone at some point? I don't think you have thought this philosophy through.

Matt. 22: 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.






That is your adopted religious philosophy. But as I pointed out, God has already told mankind over and over and over and over, who HE shows Mercy to, and who HE doesn't, in regard to His Kingdom. Paul confirms this.

Rom. 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We should seek God's Truth, not justification of manmade religions.



Again, that is your religion, and a seductive one at that. The philosophy Calvinism promotes, that God picks winners and losers based on some secret holy lottery, in which God gives one man faith, repentance and eternal life, and withholds the same from another based on nothing they choose.

But scriptures, when considering all that is written, do not support this religious philosophy.

I outright reject your preaching that no man would love or serve God unless God forced them through election.




This is why I left your religion 30 years ago Red. You guys pick and choose Scriptures to justify your adopted religion, like you do here. But if a man would just finish the Chapter, your entire philosophy is exposed.

5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation "of the righteous".

6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because "the LORD is his refuge".

So you can see, the children of men didn't seek God. The Fool doesn't believe God. The workers of iniquity, who work to turn men away from God's Word, they are all become filthy, there is none good among them, "NO NOT ONE". And that is where you stop because to continue in the same chapter, you would find others who follow another Path, one in which the followers thereof, "DO" seek God, "DO" understand.

Those who Love God and Keep His commandments, fear (Respect) Him. Those who choose "Life", who choose God's Righteousness over the religious traditions of this world, are not fools, or workers of iniquity, or men who don't seek God. These men, as Paul teaches, "Yield Themselves" servant to obey God, they become "Servants of God's righteousness", not their own. Because obedience to God, is righteousness as Paul teaches in Romans 6:16.

As it is written in another place.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: he that doeth righteousness "is righteous", even as he is righteous.

And God is in the Generation "of the Righteous", at least this is what HE Inspired to be written, that you thought unworthy to post.


Seek God's Truth Red, not justification of your adopted religion. It is God and His Son alone, who can save us from death, not Calvin or Kenneth Copeland or any of this world's religious franchises.

I'll be back later to answer you~most likely tomorrow, I do not want to rush this.

 

[e v e]

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvific purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6


Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.


I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !

the elect are those souls who reject the false scroll and Listen to Him...
and those are the 144k (once restored to their Original body made by God = their glorified body)
and it is these His souls the 144k who will meet Christ on the clouds and
with Christ rebuild eden in the other reality...
and with Christ later will return here and help poor left behind jacob,
which is most of modern Christianity,
for Jacob will Go through tribulation
and suffer much but after the two witnesses = the 144k
visit them with Christ, and after their death in the tribulation,
jacob will also be restored to his original body made by God
and return to Paradise.

There is no 'saved already'... Christ made possible His Promise..
saved is when His souls are restored in the body made by God
to His eden paradise.

Only a remnant will understand this, and reject the false scroll...
and that is what is the elect..who will meet Christ on the clouds...
and not drunk on the wine (=kjv, septuagint etc.)

Step one is our Deity Christ made possible to go Home and be saved.
Step two is to meet Christ on the clouds and Go Home = be saved from this satanic dungeon
earth and this satanic fleshbody
and Restored to our birthright.

 

[Red Baker]

Perhaps this is the case with you, but not with me.

Duet. 2: 19 And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession.

Luke 17: 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

Why was Lot not turned to Salt, but his wife was? One was righteous in God's Eyes, and the other wasn't. This would only be hidden to those who hear God's Word, but don't believe Him.

I think we have done battle before on Grace centered forum~you went under the name "GB" is this correct? If not then you are his brother.

Mr. Pharisee~If you had listened better, than you would known that I meant except we had witness from Peter (scriptures) themselves we would not had known Lot was a righteousness man. Deuteronomy 2:19 nwould not have proven that he was righteous~who were the children of Lot, ( Ammonites and Moabites) but Israel's enemies. Of course we have NT witness that was needed to prove Lot's case~his overall life did not in comparison to Abraham. He would not even been a consideration for a nominee for Hebrews 11.

I believe God's Word is also His Mercy. But "many" who have received His Word, will not receive His Mercy in the context of Salvation. And I believe what HE says, even if you or others don't.

Ex. 20: 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

"Many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, need God's Mercy to also be granted to men who Transgress God's commandments by their own religious traditions. Those Christians in Matt. 7:22 had adopted the same religious philosophy.

For me, I am happy to believe God when HE tells me HE shows Mercy to those who "Yield themselves" servants to obey Him, like Paul teaches.

After all, in ALL the examples of faith, Inspired by God and written for our admonition, it is clearly shown; "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

I have no clue what you are attempting to say when you said: "I believe God's Word is also His Mercy"~the word of God is God's testimony of truth, totally different than his mercy!

Psalm 145:8-9~“The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy. The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.”

The DEFINITION​

Mercy.~Forbearance and compassion shown by one person to another who is in his power and who has no claim to receive kindness; kind and compassionate treatment in a case where severity is merited or expected.

Mercy is very closely connected to grace; Grace is demerited favor, and mercy is demerited forgiveness. These are close, but not identical.

The Holy Spirit chose to use forms of “mercy” over forms of “grace” in a ratio of about 2 to 1. His mercies are tender mercies (Ps 25:6; 40:11; 51:1; 69:16; 77:9; 79:8; 103:4; 119:77,156; 145:9). Tender. Characterized by, exhibiting, or expressing delicacy of feeling or susceptibility to the gentle emotions; kind, loving, gentle, mild, affectionate.

Such an adjective modifying the mercy of the dreadful and terrible Jehovah is glorious indeed! Compassionate forgiveness, kindness, and longsuffering describe God’s mercy to rebellious sinners. You think it is "only" toward to those who deserve it by their good works! For you clearly said: "For me, I am happy to believe God when HE tells me HE shows Mercy to those who "Yield themselves" servants to obey Him, like Paul teaches.

There are indeed certain blessings to his children who yield their members as instruments of righteousness, and if not, then he will correct them with a rod of correction, but his lovingkindness is never taken from them, never.

Psalms 89: 28-36~"My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me." Praise be to God!

He repented of doing evil to Israel (Ex 32:14) and deferred His judgment of them (2nd Kings 13:23). Consider the careful description David gives of God’s mercy to Israel many times (Ps 78:36-39).

You can you your work gospel~let's see how far it will get you. I can assure you.... no further than the grave.

"Many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, need God's Mercy to also be granted to men who Transgress God's commandments by their own religious traditions. Those Christians in Matt. 7:22 had adopted the same religious philosophy.

For me, I am happy to believe God when HE tells me HE shows Mercy to those who "Yield themselves" servants to obey Him, like Paul teaches.

You are making God a debtor to you, based on what you think is yielding yourself to him. Like observing certain days. refraining from eating certain meats, wearing certain clothing, not going to certain places, etc.

Colossians 2: 20-23~"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

Those Christians in Matt. 7:22 had adopted the same religious philosophy.

Those professors~Like you, correct?

That is your adopted religious philosophy.

Not mine, but the testimony of the scriptures! No man has claims upon God's mercy, no man.

Romans 9:15,16~"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

LOL,

Doesn't God call everyone at some point? I don't think you have thought this philosophy through.

Matt. 22: 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

You do not make a lot of sense to be honest. I never even hinted God calls all men at some point. What you said afterwards does not have anything to do with what I said. My scriptures was this:

Romans 10:20~"But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me." Proving that God show mercy when we did not even seek after him, but were servants to sin, in bondage to the devil.

Then you came back with what you said, which shows your lack of being able to even defend your position. Pitiful! Learn how to debate, you are embarrassing yourself.

Again, that is your religion, and a seductive one at that. The philosophy Calvinism promotes, that God picks winners and losers based on some secret holy lottery, in which God gives one man faith, repentance and eternal life, and withholds the same from another based on nothing they choose.

But scriptures, when considering all that is written, do not support this religious philosophy.

I outright reject your preaching that no man would love or serve God unless God forced them through election.

I'm stopping here so I can come back and finish, from keep this post being way too long for the average reader to profit thereby.

 

[brightfame52]

The Elect, those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 they are His Spiritual Seed, a seed given Him by His Father. Isa 53:10

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Ps 22:30

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation. 6

 

[Red Baker]

That is your adopted religious philosophy. But as I pointed out, God has already told mankind over and over and over and over, who HE shows Mercy to, and who HE doesn't, in regard to His Kingdom. Paul confirms this.

Your wicked religious philosophy as you called it~believes he only show mercy after man first does certain spiritual acts of faith, which is nothing more than a cursed work gospel! We beleive God that he shows mercy unto folks who don't deserve any mercy, as far a salvation from sin and condemnation!

Let me show you what mercy is, which all of God's children have received from God, not based upon what they had done you you so vainly believe.

Ezekiel 16:1-14...................
"Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite. And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all. None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born. And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare. Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD."

Do you need help with these wonderful scriptures, they speak beautifully of how God found each of of his elect, and what he did for them, that which they could not do for themselves! Your work gospel will never allow you to glory in such wonderful scriptures.

Rom. 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Creation leaves men without an excuse, but God does much more for his elect, he creates within them a new man after the image of Jesus Christ. which causes them to see much greater than any natural man could ever see. Creation leaves men without an excuse, but it could never bring men to Jesus Christ, nothing short of the power of God can do thuis, the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead. Ephesians 1:19-21.

We should seek God's Truth, not justification of manmade religions.

No one would disagree with that. But, you have your own religion, much different than even Tom. civic, and others here as they will see for themselves shortly the more you talk. Mixture of SDA, and a few others thrown into your thinking. Most everything but Calvinism~low and especially high.

Again, that is your religion, and a seductive one at that. The philosophy Calvinism promotes, that God picks winners and losers based on some secret holy lottery, in which God gives one man faith, repentance and eternal life, and withholds the same from another based on nothing they choose.

But scriptures, when considering all that is written, do not support this religious philosophy.

I outright reject your preaching that no man would love or serve God unless God forced them through election

It is not forced, but he gives them the POWER to do so! Big difference. But what would a lover of another gospel know about this wonderful truth?

John 1:12,13~"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

But, to man who mocks God's election of grace these wonderful truths will forever be hidden from them!

Coming back to finish because I want to go hard after the rest of your post, to shut the mouth of proud gainsayer.

 

[dwight92070]

All men have been born of blood. All men have been born of the will of the flesh. All men have been born of the will of a man. It is actually saying that they were not only born of blood, not only born of the will of the flesh, and not only born of the will of a man, but also of God.
Born once - then born again.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Your wicked religious philosophy as you called it~believes he only show mercy after man first does certain spiritual acts of faith, which is nothing more than a cursed work gospel! We beleive God that he shows mercy unto folks who don't deserve any mercy, as far a salvation from sin and condemnation!

Agree. That is why it's grace. If we deserve it in any way (by synergistically having faith originating in ourselves), then it is no longer mercy or grace.

 

[TomL]

Agree. That is why it's grace. If we deserve it in any way (by synergistically having faith originating in ourselves), then it is no longer mercy or grace.

Actually faith establishes that it is by grace

Romans 4:1–16 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Actually faith establishes that it is by grace

Romans 4:1–16 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

That passage is saying that righteousness does not come by the law, but by faith. It doesn't say anything about how one person has faith and another does not.

 

[TomL]

That passage is saying that righteousness does not come by the law, but by faith. It doesn't say anything about how one person has faith and another does not.

The issue is whether faith is consistent with grace.

The bible clearly shows that it is.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The issue is whether faith is consistent with grace.

The bible clearly shows that it is.

I agree. Faith is consistent with grace. Faith comes from grace and mercy.

 

[dwight92070]

the elect are those souls who reject the false scroll and Listen to Him...
and those are the 144k (once restored to their Original body made by God = their glorified body)
and it is these His souls the 144k who will meet Christ on the clouds and
with Christ rebuild eden in the other reality...
and with Christ later will return here and help poor left behind jacob,
which is most of modern Christianity,
for Jacob will Go through tribulation
and suffer much but after the two witnesses = the 144k
visit them with Christ, and after their death in the tribulation,
jacob will also be restored to his original body made by God
and return to Paradise.

There is no 'saved already'... Christ made possible His Promise..
saved is when His souls are restored in the body made by God
to His eden paradise.

Only a remnant will understand this, and reject the false scroll...
and that is what is the elect..who will meet Christ on the clouds...
and not drunk on the wine (=kjv, septuagint etc.)

Step one is our Deity Christ made possible to go Home and be saved.
Step two is to meet Christ on the clouds and Go Home = be saved from this satanic dungeon
earth and this satanic fleshbody
and Restored to our birthright.

You are confused. Maybe you should see a mature Christian counselor.

 

[e v e]

You are listening to the False Jehovah Witnesses'~you are more deceived when Satan first deceived Eve your mother.

i ve no information on that, only reading wikipedia. not sure why you say this.