Doctrine of Unconditional Election

Johann said:
Prove the Scriptures wrong because you can't-not can you refute Gill. Don't make this a personal issue-walk your age.

John Gill, in his extensive Bible commentary, provides several insights on Judas Iscariot and his role in the betrayal of Jesus. According to Gill, Judas was chosen by Jesus not by accident or ignorance, but to fulfill Scripture. Gill emphasizes that Judas' betrayal was necessary for the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah's death, which would ultimately bring about the redemption of the world (Christianity) (Grace to You).

Gill refers to specific prophecies, such as Psalm 41:9, which speaks of a close friend betraying the Messiah. This verse is historically linked to David and his betrayal by Ahithophel, but prophetically it points to Jesus and Judas. Similarly, Psalm 55:12-14 describes betrayal by a close companion, reflecting Judas' actions. Additionally, Zechariah 11:12-13 predicts the exact price—thirty pieces of silver—for which Judas would betray Jesus, and this prophecy is fulfilled in the New Testament when Judas returns the money to the temple authorities (Grace to You).

Gill also explores the deeper motivations behind Judas' actions. While greed played a role, as indicated by Judas' negotiation for money in exchange for Jesus' capture, there was also a supernatural element. Both Luke and John suggest that Satan entered Judas, influencing him to betray Jesus at the opportune moment. This dual explanation—greed and satanic influence—provides a comprehensive understanding of Judas' betrayal from Gill's perspective (OverviewBible).

Overall, John Gill's commentary highlights that Judas' actions, while driven by personal motives and satanic influence, were ultimately part of a divine plan to fulfill the prophecies of the Messiah's suffering and death (Christianity) (Grace to You).

Johann.
Click to expand...
now you are quoting MacAurthur lol. I was exactly like him in every single belief of his for 40 years. Please don't try and tell me what Mac believes. I own every book and commentary he wrote while I was a calvinist.
 
civic said:
now you are quoting MacAurthur lol. I was exactly like him in every single belief of his for 40 years. Please don't try and tell me what Mac believes. I own every book and commentary he wrote while I was a calvinist.
Click to expand...
Sorry-from Gill-prove the Scriptures wrong and don't bring Calvinism into the plain reading of the text.
 
civic said:
he was one of Jesus sheep in Matt 19 sent out as sheep among wolves. He performed the exact same miracles as the other disciples sent out by Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Nice try
Click to expand...
he was a devil, chosen for perdition Jn 6:70

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Jn 17 12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
 
civic said:
sure there is which is what its called a fallacy to begin with. :)
Click to expand...
Deal with the Scriptures-
  1. Psalm 41:9:
    • "Even my close friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me."
    • This verse is often seen as a prophecy about Judas’s betrayal, particularly because Jesus Himself quotes it in John 13:18 when predicting Judas's actions.
  2. Psalm 55:12-14:
    • "For it is not an enemy who taunts me—then I could bear it; it is not an adversary who deals insolently with me—then I could hide from him. But it is you, a man, my equal, my companion, my familiar friend. We used to take sweet counsel together; within God's house we walked in the throng."
    • This passage is interpreted as expressing the deep betrayal felt by David, which is seen as a foreshadowing of Jesus’s betrayal by Judas, a close associate.
  3. Zechariah 11:12-13:
    • "Then I said to them, 'If it seems good to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.' And they weighed out as my wages thirty pieces of silver. Then the Lord said to me, 'Throw it to the potter'—the lordly price at which I was priced by them. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord, to the potter."
    • This passage is seen as a prophecy of Judas’s betrayal price. In the New Testament, Matthew 26:14-16 and 27:3-10 explicitly connect the thirty pieces of silver to Judas’s betrayal of Jesus.
  4. Psalm 69:25:
    • "May their camp be a desolation; let no one dwell in their tents."
    • This verse is referenced in Acts 1:20 regarding Judas’s fate and the desolation of his place.

        • "Jesus answered them, 'Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.' He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him."
          This passage indicates that Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas would betray Him, suggesting Judas was not a true follower.
          John 12:4-6:

          "But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, 'Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?' He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it."
          Here, Judas’s motivations are revealed to be dishonest and self-serving, indicating he was not a genuine disciple.
          John 17:12:

          "While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."
          Jesus refers to Judas as the "son of destruction," indicating his role was part of the divine plan but also setting him apart from the true followers.
          Matthew 26:14-16:

          "Then one of the twelve, whose name was Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests and said, 'What will you give me if I deliver him over to you?' And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. And from that moment he sought an opportunity to betray him."
          This act of betrayal for money highlights Judas's lack of genuine commitment to Jesus.
          Acts 1:16-20:

          "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry." (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 'For it is written in the Book of Psalms, "May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it"; and "Let another take his office."'"
          This passage reflects on Judas's betrayal and its consequences, further illustrating that he was not a true disciple.
 
Johann said:
Deal with the Scriptures-
  1. Psalm 41:9:
    • "Even my close friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me."
    • This verse is often seen as a prophecy about Judas’s betrayal, particularly because Jesus Himself quotes it in John 13:18 when predicting Judas's actions.
  2. Psalm 55:12-14:
    • "For it is not an enemy who taunts me—then I could bear it; it is not an adversary who deals insolently with me—then I could hide from him. But it is you, a man, my equal, my companion, my familiar friend. We used to take sweet counsel together; within God's house we walked in the throng."
    • This passage is interpreted as expressing the deep betrayal felt by David, which is seen as a foreshadowing of Jesus’s betrayal by Judas, a close associate.
  3. Zechariah 11:12-13:
    • "Then I said to them, 'If it seems good to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.' And they weighed out as my wages thirty pieces of silver. Then the Lord said to me, 'Throw it to the potter'—the lordly price at which I was priced by them. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord, to the potter."
    • This passage is seen as a prophecy of Judas’s betrayal price. In the New Testament, Matthew 26:14-16 and 27:3-10 explicitly connect the thirty pieces of silver to Judas’s betrayal of Jesus.
  4. Psalm 69:25:
    • "May their camp be a desolation; let no one dwell in their tents."
    • This verse is referenced in Acts 1:20 regarding Judas’s fate and the desolation of his place.
        • "Jesus answered them, 'Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.' He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him."
          This passage indicates that Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas would betray Him, suggesting Judas was not a true follower.
          John 12:4-6:

          "But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, 'Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?' He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it."
          Here, Judas’s motivations are revealed to be dishonest and self-serving, indicating he was not a genuine disciple.
          John 17:12:

          "While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."
          Jesus refers to Judas as the "son of destruction," indicating his role was part of the divine plan but also setting him apart from the true followers.
          Matthew 26:14-16:

          "Then one of the twelve, whose name was Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests and said, 'What will you give me if I deliver him over to you?' And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. And from that moment he sought an opportunity to betray him."
          This act of betrayal for money highlights Judas's lack of genuine commitment to Jesus.
          Acts 1:16-20:

          "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry." (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 'For it is written in the Book of Psalms, "May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it"; and "Let another take his office."'"
          This passage reflects on Judas's betrayal and its consequences, further illustrating that he was not a true disciple.
Click to expand...
What is the source of this cut and paste article ?
 
civic said:
not until you say where the copy/paste came from.
Click to expand...
John Gill, in his extensive Bible commentary, provides several insights on Judas Iscariot and his role in the betrayal of Jesus. According to Gill, Judas was chosen by Jesus not by accident or ignorance, but to fulfill Scripture. Gill emphasizes that Judas' betrayal was necessary for the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah's death, which would ultimately bring about the redemption of the world (Christianity) (Grace to You).

Gill refers to specific prophecies, such as Psalm 41:9, which speaks of a close friend betraying the Messiah. This verse is historically linked to David and his betrayal by Ahithophel, but prophetically it points to Jesus and Judas. Similarly, Psalm 55:12-14 describes betrayal by a close companion, reflecting Judas' actions. Additionally, Zechariah 11:12-13 predicts the exact price—thirty pieces of silver—for which Judas would betray Jesus, and this prophecy is fulfilled in the New Testament when Judas returns the money to the temple authorities (Grace to You).

Gill also explores the deeper motivations behind Judas' actions. While greed played a role, as indicated by Judas' negotiation for money in exchange for Jesus' capture, there was also a supernatural element. Both Luke and John suggest that Satan entered Judas, influencing him to betray Jesus at the opportune moment. This dual explanation—greed and satanic influence—provides a comprehensive understanding of Judas' betrayal from Gill's perspective (OverviewBible).

Overall, John Gill's commentary highlights that Judas' actions, while driven by personal motives and satanic influence, were ultimately part of a divine plan to fulfill the prophecies of the Messiah's suffering and death (Christianity) (Grace to You).

Old Testament References:
Psalm 41:9

"Even my close friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me."
Psalm 55:12-14

"For it is not an enemy who taunts me—then I could bear it; it is not an adversary who deals insolently with me—then I could hide from him. But it is you, a man, my equal, my companion, my familiar friend. We used to take sweet counsel together; within God's house we walked in the throng."
Zechariah 11:12-13

"Then I said to them, 'If it seems good to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.' And they weighed out as my wages thirty pieces of silver. Then the Lord said to me, 'Throw it to the potter'—the lordly price at which I was priced by them. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord, to the potter."
New Testament References:
John 6:70-71

"Jesus answered them, 'Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.' He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him."
John 12:4-6

"But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, 'Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?' He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it."
John 17:12

"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."
Matthew 26:14-16

"Then one of the twelve, whose name was Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests and said, 'What will you give me if I deliver him over to you?' And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. And from that moment he sought an opportunity to betray him."
Acts 1:16-20

"Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry. (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 'For it is written in the Book of Psalms, "May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it"; and "Let another take his office."'"

Was Judas saved?
 
civic said:
Pure rejection of Jesus teaching.

Matthew 10
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

16 “I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Click to expand...
civic~ Please consider this one point using the very scripture you quoted.

Matthew 10:1~"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."

Now, consider these scriptures:

Matthew 17:14-15~"And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

civic~you are assuming the traitor had power to cast out devils, when even the best of God apostles did not have this power all of the time, and truly we do not know just how effective they were since we were not there. There has always been tares among the wheat, and truly it is impossible to be right every time trying to determine who's wheat, who are tares sowed by the devil~many times we know them by their fruits, but not perfectly always.

civic said:
I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Click to expand...
This is a true statement as speaking about them as a whole, but not necessarily true speaking about each one individually. There are some examples of this in the scriptures if you want proof~you probably know some of them as well.
 
civic said:
I don't read the erroneous teachings of your cut/pastes.

when you start doing your own posting in your own words then I will read what you post.
Click to expand...
That was not very nice. you seem to be better than that~besides, who cares if it is copied and paste, truth is truth, and every child of God desires truth. Food is food, babies do not care who feeds them, just as long as they are given food to sustain them.

John Gill is a very worthy writer, yes he has error, but much more truth, but so do all of God's children, no one is perfect in doctrine.

We are here to learn, and to help our brethren, and only God knows who they are.
 
Red Baker said:
That was not very nice. you seem to be better than that~besides, who cares if it is copied and paste, truth is truth, and every child of God desires truth. Food is food, babies do not care who feeds them, just as long as they are given food to sustain them.

John Gill is a very worthy writer, yes he has error, but much more truth, but so do all of God's children, no one is perfect in doctrine.

We are here to learn, and to help our brethren, and only God knows who they are.
Click to expand...
I was a huge fan of gill as a former Calvinist , the same with Sproul, Piper and MacArthur .
 

Similar threads

brightfame52
Salvation is according to the will of God
4 5 6
Replies
112
Views
930
brightfame52
brightfame52
D
One Day Before the Election
Replies
1
Views
118
Administrator
Administrator
The Rogue Tomato
The doctrine of election
5 6 7
Replies
130
Views
2K
brightfame52
brightfame52
Johann
Ephesians 1:4 Explained
9 10 11
Replies
201
Views
3K
TomL
T
brightfame52
A Believer is a Child of Promise
Replies
0
Views
42
brightfame52
brightfame52
Back
Top Bottom